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March 2019 Oyster Extensions Confirmed

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Surreytraveller

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And are available UK wide.
A lot more difficult to obtain outside London, as you cannot obtain them at a local Post Office outside London, nowhere pick them up, and they cost £10. You also need to have a passport for the child. You don't have to pay £10 to obtain child fares on the railway, or have ID.​
 
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Deerfold

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Aren't 11-15s free on London Buses? Don't know about 16/17s. Obviously you get child rate seasons, but as for single tickets you cannot get a child rate single on a London bus.

Apologies. 11-15 don't pay if (edit: ) they've got a Zip card. Some 16-17 do pay half fare on London Buses. For single tickets.

If the child is not a London resident (16-17) or they don't have a Zip card (11-15) they can have a London visitor discount setting on an Oyster card for 14 days. They will then pay half fare. On singles (unless they hit a cap).
 
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MikeWh

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Aren't 11-15s free on London Buses? Don't know about 16/17s. Obviously you get child rate seasons, but as for single tickets you cannot get a child rate single on a London bus.
Yes, 11-15s are free. 16-17 depends on where the holder lives; free if in London, half adult if not. Also, the young visitor discount on an adult Oyster gives half price fares, including buses.
 

Deerfold

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A lot more difficult to obtain outside London, as you cannot obtain them at a local Post Office outside London, nowhere pick them up, and they cost £10. You also need to have a passport for the child. You don't have to pay £10 to obtain child fares on the railway, or have ID.​

As an aside, last week I saw two 15 year olds being told at a rail station in West Yorkshire that they couldn't have half fare unless they had a West Yorkshire half fare pass.
 

MikeWh

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Apologies. 11-15 don't pay if London residents. 16-17 do pay half fare on London Buses. For single tickets.
Sorry, 11-15 is always free on buses, it's the 16-17 which depends on residence.
 

matt_world2004

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A lot more difficult to obtain outside London, as you cannot obtain them at a local Post Office outside London, nowhere pick them up, and they cost £10. You also need to have a passport for the child. You don't have to pay £10 to obtain child fares on the railway, or have ID.​
They deliver them by post regardless of london residency. You only go to the post office if they cannot verify your identity.
 

Deerfold

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Sorry, 11-15 is always free on buses, it's the 16-17 which depends on residence.

Thanks - but only if they've managed to sort out a Zip card in advance - otherwise they also get the young visitor discount (giving them the apparently impossible half fare).
 

MikeWh

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Thanks - but only if they've managed to sort out a Zip card in advance - otherwise they also get the young visitor discount.
Ahhh, I see now. I was referring to Holders of the zip cards. Apologies for the confusion.
 

Surreytraveller

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They deliver them by post regardless of london residency. You only go to the post office if they cannot verify your identity.
I had to pick my child's up. Anyway, all this Zip Card business is awfully complicated for someone who just wants a child return to Reading once in a while!
 

matt_world2004

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I had to pick my child's up. Anyway, all this Zip Card business is awfully complicated for someone who just wants a child return to Reading once in a while!


How long ago was that? Oyster cards arent valid to reading anyway and any national rail ticket machine can issue those tickets.
 

Deerfold

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A lot more difficult to obtain outside London, as you cannot obtain them at a local Post Office outside London, nowhere pick them up, and they cost £10. You also need to have a passport for the child. You don't have to pay £10 to obtain child fares on the railway, or have ID.​

But then child fares on the railway aren't free.
 

Surreytraveller

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How long ago was that? Oyster cards arent valid to reading anyway and any national rail ticket machine can issue those tickets.
Yes, but the conversation was starting to drift in the direction of paper tickets no longer being accepted and everything being done on Oyster/Contactless, as that is how it works on London Buses, and I piped up saying the only reason it works on London Buses is because they did away with child fares and children travel free. The conversation then went on to state that you can indeed have a child fare on a London Bus, but only if you've got an Oystercard with a Visitor Child discount applied, or if you have a 16/17 Zip Card and live outside London.
Hope that's clear?
 

Deerfold

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Yes, but the conversation was starting to drift in the direction of paper tickets no longer being accepted and everything being done on Oyster/Contactless, as that is how it works on London Buses, and I piped up saying the only reason it works on London Buses is because they did away with child fares and children travel free. The conversation then went on to state that you can indeed have a child fare on a London Bus, but only if you've got an Oystercard with a Visitor Child discount applied, or if you have a 16/17 Zip Card and live outside London.
Hope that's clear?

You said they'd done away with child fares.

They clearly haven't - as you say, we then described how to get them.
 

matt_world2004

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Yes, but the conversation was starting to drift in the direction of paper tickets no longer being accepted and everything being done on Oyster/Contactless, as that is how it works on London Buses, and I piped up saying the only reason it works on London Buses is because they did away with child fares and children travel free. The conversation then went on to state that you can indeed have a child fare on a London Bus, but only if you've got an Oystercard with a Visitor Child discount applied, or if you have a 16/17 Zip Card and live outside London.
Hope that's clear?
If Oyster Cards arent accepted to reading even when TfL rail starts running there (as mentioned upthread) why would they withdraw paper tickets to Reading?

But when/if Oyster is available to Reading.Staff will be able to load a young visitor discount onto any oyster card at Reading station, like they can at any other TfL rail station.
 

Surreytraveller

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You said they'd done away with child fares.

They clearly haven't.
Its not clear they haven't. In most scenarios they have. But in order to obtain a child fare on a London Bus you need to have an Oystercard with a visitor child discount applied, or a 16/17 Zip Card and live outside London. Its about as clear as mud to someone not familiar with it
 

Deerfold

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Its not clear they haven't. In most scenarios they have. But in order to obtain a child fare on a London Bus you need to have an Oystercard with a visitor child discount applied, or a 16/17 Zip Card and live outside London. Its about as clear as mud to someone not familiar with it

That's not uncommon with public transport fares. It doesn't make your assertion true.
 

Surreytraveller

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If Oyster Cards arent accepted to reading even when TfL rail starts running there (as mentioned upthread) why would they withdraw paper tickets to Reading?

But when/if Oyster is available to Reading.Staff will be able to load a young visitor discount onto any oyster card at Reading station, like they can at any other TfL rail station.
Exactly. That's what I am saying. They cannot do away with paper tickets. The ticketing system of the National Rail Network is too complicated. It is not as simple as the zonal system within London. It was not me suggesting it - it was another poster. I am arguing against it. Sorry if I haven't made that clear
 

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Hadders said (#236):The issue is far more pronounced for users of Network Railcards, Two Together and Friends & Family Railcards. These can be used to obtain a discount on paper tickets but cannot be added to Oyster/Contactless.

I am a senior person so have a Senior Railcard with 33% discount on fares.Am I included in the above statement ? I do not live in London and on occasional visits to London I do get a discount on Oyster as I look up the fares on tfl website before hand.The Railcard has to be presented to a TFL person at place like Euston TFL before the underground where he/she will apply a discount on the Oyster card on proof that you hold a valid Railcard.
Not sure about Contactless cards though ; given that TFL can apply the discount on their Oyster cards but not possible to do on Bank cards?

Using his/her example of Hertford East to Oxford Circus off peak of £8.60 single brings my Senior fare down to £5.70 single off peak, £11.40 return
 
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Deerfold

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What assertion? And only London has such a complicated system of child fares, so I would suggest that it is uncommon

Aren't 11-15s free on London Buses? Don't know about 16/17s. Obviously you get child rate seasons, but as for single tickets you cannot get a child rate single on a London bus.

You seem to have now moved from "can't get" to "is uncommon". The driver for making most children travel free on buses in London was political will, not any limitation of the Oyster or ticketing system.
 

Surreytraveller

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You seem to have now moved from "can't get" to "is uncommon". The driver for making most children travel free on buses in London was political will, not any limitation of the Oyster or ticketing system.
You moved to uncommon. I was quoting you.
Obviously there is a limit to the ticketing system on London Buses - namely you cannot get a ticket on a London Bus, as they are ticketless.
The limit with the Oyster system is you have to apply in advance, you need ID, and there is an administration charge. Or you need a normal Oystercard, and go to a station to have a temporary child discount applied. You cannot get on a London Bus and pay a child fare without a fair amount of prior planning. If you're under 11 it doesn't matter, as its free with no documentation. If you're 11 or older, you've got a problem
 

Deerfold

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You moved to uncommon. I was quoting you.
Obviously there is a limit to the ticketing system on London Buses - namely you cannot get a ticket on a London Bus, as they are ticketless.
The limit with the Oyster system is you have to apply in advance, you need ID, and there is an administration charge. Or you need a normal Oystercard, and go to a station to have a temporary child discount applied. You cannot get on a London Bus and pay a child fare without a fair amount of prior planning. If you're under 11 it doesn't matter, as its free with no documentation. If you're 11 or older, you've got a problem

And in many areas you can't get half fare at all unless you're a local resident and can get the local half fare pass.
Getting half fare in London is far easier than West Yorkshire, South Yorkshire or Greater Manchester.
And easier than anywhere for under 11s.

How easy was getting a child fare in London before Oyster?
 

matt_world2004

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Yes, there is talk about fares beyond West Drayton being TfL Rail only. We've yet to see what the fares are, but I can see the Oyster fares from Reading being a bit cheaper to compensate for the slow journey.

The latest T&R bulletin talks about oyster not being accepted at all over the whole TfL rail west route
My guess is they can only have oyster where TfL is the fare setting authority without GwRs permission
 

Surreytraveller

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And in many areas you can't get half fare at all unless you're a local resident and can get the local half fare pass.
Getting half fare in London is far easier than West Yorkshire, South Yorkshire or Greater Manchester.
And easier than anywhere for under 11s.

How easy was getting a child fare in London before Oyster?
I'm not familiar with Yorkshire. Besides, this conversation is about London and the 2019 extensions to the Oystercard
 

transmanche

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The limit with the Oyster system is you have to apply in advance, you need ID, and there is an administration charge. Or you need a normal Oystercard, and go to a station to have a temporary child discount applied. You cannot get on a London Bus and pay a child fare without a fair amount of prior planning. If you're under 11 it doesn't matter, as its free with no documentation. If you're 11 or older, you've got a problem
It's really not a problem. My step-daughter has an 11-15 Zip Card and we live some 300 miles from London. A one-off charge of £10 and it's valid until the end of the summer holiday after her GCSEs. Really simple.

And if you can't be bothered to do that, or get a temporary child discount applied to an Oyster Card, then you pay £1.50 for any number of journeys within an hour. Which is cheaper than the child fare in many other places
 

Surreytraveller

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It's really not a problem. My step-daughter has an 11-15 Zip Card and we live some 300 miles from London. A one-off charge of £10 and it's valid until the end of the summer holiday after her GCSEs. Really simple.

And if you can't be bothered to do that, or get a temporary child discount applied to an Oyster Card, then you pay £1.50 for any number of journeys within an hour. Which is cheaper than the child fare in many other places
Well, I've got the same for my child. Its a faff if its a one-off or you're not familiar with it. I wouldn't call it 'really simple'.
Its not like getting on a bus in most places and asking for a child single to such and such. A child (or an adult for that matter) cannot get on a bus in London without doing a load of research.
And you can't get a child discount loaded onto an Oyster by a bus driver or a newsagent - you have to find a TfL station first. Easier in some parts of London than others
 
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