Mark 3 Carriage Toilet/Luggage Rack Window Removal

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ryan125hst

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Does anyone know the history of the toilet and luggage rack windows being removed on some HST trailers. These are just First or Standard class carriages here, not ones with accessible toilets etc. I thought that there were two small windows, one at each end of the coach, and on both sides of the coach, where the toilets and luggage racks are. However, I have noticed that some carriages don't have these windows and they have been plated over with little evidence there was a window that before at all.

For example, this carriage is a Standard class carriage in East Midlands Trains livery that doesn't have these small windows:


Yet this one, also an EMT Standard class carriage, does:


Can anyone shed any light on this?
 
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fgwrich

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This was one of the quirks of Midland Mainline, who removed the unnecessary and un-required window behind the luggage racks during one of their overhauls. It removed the need for their maintenance, and removed a potential source of leaks - No Window, No leaks. Personally I find the Mk3s actually look a lot smarter like this - you could always tell an ex MML MK3 in the FGW or GNER fleets as a result of this.


 

ryan125hst

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I didn't realise it was only on the luggage rack side. What year was this work carried out?

Also, how did they manage to plate the window over so neatly? Many window alterations leave obvious signs of the window but it blends in very well on these.
 

greatvoyager

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I wondered why some vehicles were missing those small windows. Did Midland Mainline ever update Rio sets to the same standard?
 

Merle Haggard

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I think, but I'm not sure - haven't travelled since the first lockdown - that one of the firsts in a XC set has the converse; a luggage rack is removed and a seat half in the space. I think (again, not sure) that the window has been removed. I remember noticing this and taking interest, but I've forgotten again...
 

greatvoyager

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I think, but I'm not sure - haven't travelled since the first lockdown - that one of the firsts in a XC set has the converse; a luggage rack is removed and a seat half in the space. I think (again, not sure) that the window has been removed. I remember noticing this and taking interest, but I've forgotten again...
I’m sure I noticed that as well.
 

edwin_m

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This was one of the quirks of Midland Mainline, who removed the unnecessary and un-required window behind the luggage racks during one of their overhauls.
Both the toilet windows and the luggage rack windows had an opening flap that could be unlocked with a carriage key and used to display a destination label in the lower half of the window for the information of boarding passengers. At some point they decided it was easier just to stick the labels on the door droplight or even the saloon windows as they always had on older stock. I don't know if that's the reason windows were originally provided behind the racks or whether they were provided for some other reason and someone then thought of that use for them.
 

northernbelle

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Both the toilet windows and the luggage rack windows had an opening flap that could be unlocked with a carriage key and used to display a destination label in the lower half of the window for the information of boarding passengers. At some point they decided it was easier just to stick the labels on the door droplight or even the saloon windows as they always had on older stock. I don't know if that's the reason windows were originally provided behind the racks or whether they were provided for some other reason and someone then thought of that use for them.
I know that many (if not all) vehicles had proper roller blind equipment fitted to the toilet windows - I'm pretty sure that's the purpose the ones on the luggage rack side served as well (hence the removable panel at the back of the luggage stacks).

In the toilets the giveaway was that the hinged panels behind the lower half of the window protruded out rather than being flush with the surround in order to accommodate the width of the blind roller mechanism. Intercity did go through a process on many vehicles of replacing the aperture for the blind with a solid panel on which the IC Swallow logo was displayed - in later years, these panels were simply turned around to hide the swallow, but some did remain in place albeit with the glass in front of them painted over.

The attached photo shows 42260 with the rectangular cutout through which the original destination blind would have been displayed. The second is 42025 with its Intercity Swallow still in place well into First Great Western days - the panel would have originally faced out through the window but was simply turned around to 'hide' the logo in later years.
 

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