Mark 5 and 5a question

RAGNARØKR

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1 Jun 2010
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What is the bay spacing on the day coaches? ie centre to centre of window pillars (or windows), same thing.

For comparison:
Mark 1 third class 6ft 3in
Mark 2 standard class 1.95 M
Mark 3 all 2.1 M
Electrostar 1.8 M
 
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Clansman

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Thanks. Is Mark 5 the same?
Only the seated coach. The Mk5s were bespoke designed for CS in each accomodation, whereas TPE were just effectively offered a slightly modified quick copy & paste of the seated sleeper coach in terms of window dimensions to get a few sets thrashed out in the quickest time.

That's why you've got the ridiculous alignment that exists on TPEs sets.

Edit: Seems that the outdated Mk5 plans in the original speficiation have it at 2100mm for seats. But it's most likely an exact carbon copy on both Mk5 and Mk5a. Perhaps the 2050mm is the window itself, with pillars being 50mm to take the OP question's answered at 2100mm from the centre of each pillar?

1632859665236.png
 
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RAGNARØKR

Member
Joined
1 Jun 2010
Messages
557
Location
Göteborg
Thanks. Pity. The ideal balance between seat layout and capacity seems to be 1.90 M. This is used in the class 180 and was probably in the BREL International. You get 2+1 for 1st class and 2+2 for standard, all aligned to windows.

This information needs to be spread around.

Only the seated coach. The Mk5s were bespoke designed for CS in each accomodation, whereas TPE were just effectively offered a slightly modified quick copy & paste of the seated sleeper coach in terms of window dimensions to get a few sets thrashed out in the quickest time.

That's why you've got the ridiculous alignment that exists on TPEs sets.

Edit: Seems that the outdated Mk5 plans in the original speficiation have it at 2100mm for seats. But it's most likely an exact carbon copy on both Mk5 and Mk5a. Perhaps the 2050mm is the window itself, with pillars being 50mm to take the OP question's answered at 2100mm from the centre of each pillar?

View attachment 103243
2.1 m is the Mark 3 bay dimension as far as I know. It is why the standard class seats did not align even with the original 72 seat configuration. The BREL International was a 9-bay vehicle and the vehicles with 54 or 72 seats aligned correctly. Presumably the bays were 1.90 as in the 180 units.

Pity the are still not getting this right.

Only the seated coach. The Mk5s were bespoke designed for CS in each accomodation, whereas TPE were just effectively offered a slightly modified quick copy & paste of the seated sleeper coach in terms of window dimensions to get a few sets thrashed out in the quickest time.

That's why you've got the ridiculous alignment that exists on TPEs sets.

Edit: Seems that the outdated Mk5 plans in the original speficiation have it at 2100mm for seats. But it's most likely an exact carbon copy on both Mk5 and Mk5a. Perhaps the 2050mm is the window itself, with pillars being 50mm to take the OP question's answered at 2100mm from the centre of each pillar?

View attachment 103243

This really is not a clever design. The floor at 1100 above RL. means that it is in the part of the loading gauge with reduced width. If the floor is 1300 then you get the full width and space to put any skirting ducts. Larger wheels can be used which makes for a smoother ride and reduced the amount of track bashing. Keeping the length to 21.5 metres (ie 1.5 metres longer than mark 1) avoids the need for a taper. It also allows close coupling, mark 1 style, without creating excessive relative motion between the gangways.

Railway vehicle designers ought to get out the drawings of the mark 1 stock and understand the rationale behind the design, which was created so as to make optimum use of the British system with its limitations.
 
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