Market Harborough Station Upgrade

[swt_passenger]

Couldn't they have reduced the costs by making the platforms narrower? I don't think I have seen such narrow platforms at a station with high speed trains passing.

How do they compare with the rail group standard rules for a new single sided platform?
AIUI from memory (of other discussions) the requirement is for a 2.4m usable width up to 100 mph, 3.0m usable width above 100 mph.
The planning drawings have the overall width to the edge of the railing’s concrete support as 3.5m, with the 3.0m clearance between coping edge and lamp posts. All the shelters, waiting rooms and lift/footbridge areas are set further back.
My conclusion, given the 85 mph line speed, is that yes they could actually have been narrower...

 

[edwin_m]

Couldn't they have reduced the costs by making the platforms narrower? I don't think I have seen such narrow platforms at a station with high speed trains passing.

They aren't particularly high speed - the speed will be 85mph when the temporary restrictions come off. Plenty of places with many more passengers than MH but narrower platforms.

 

[deltic08]

They aren't particularly high speed - the speed will be 85mph when the temporary restrictions come off. Plenty of places with many more passengers than MH but narrower platforms.

I feel they should double the width to be safe. They were originally hoping for 115mph linespeed here. What changed minds to only 85mph? An awful lot of money to spend on such little increase in speed. A short termism cop out once again in our railway infrastructure improvements.

Where are these stations with narrower platforms? Maybe a new thread is required.

 

[edwin_m]

I feel they should double the width to be safe. They were originally hoping for 115mph linespeed here. What changed minds to only 85mph? An awful lot of money to spend on such little increase in speed. A short termism cop out once again in our railway infrastructure improvements.

Where are these stations with narrower platforms? Maybe a new thread is required.

The curve just south of the station limits speeds to 85mph. Straightening that out would have needed a major deviation carving through the town to the south of the station. So even if was 115mph through the platforms they wouldn't be doing anywhere near that.

The bit that was cancelled was continuing the re-alignment northwards to restore the MML to its original route instead of deviating eastwards to pass over the old Joint line. I guess this was deleted because the attainable speed on this section wouldn't have been much higher than today, due to accelerating from or decelerating to the 85. As well as a 20mph increase in speed (remembering that taking out the slow bits gets a lot more benefit than accelerating the fast bits) the scheme has provided full length platforms straight enough to avoid huge gaps, and the station is now fully accessible.

Narrow platforms is probably a topic of its own, but as an example I give you Gatwick where in one place the yellow line is so close to the wall that it's impossible to stay within the yellow line with a wheelie suitcase even if nobody is standing there. Passenger numbers there are far higher than at MH.

 

[Hophead]

I presume that there are no plans to provide shelter for passengers? Yes, i can see that there are some glorified bus shelters in the picture in post 448, but these are some distance from the bridge and will hardly encourage passengers to spread along the platform in wetter weather.

 

[Flying Phil]

I presume that there are no plans to provide shelter for passengers? Yes, i can see that there are some glorified bus shelters in the picture in post 448, but these are some distance from the bridge and will hardly encourage passengers to spread along the platform in wetter weather.

There are two much larger waiting rooms, one on each side, which are just to the North of the footbridge. There are about four "bus shelters" on each platform, as well. So, much better than we have been used too!

 

[Hophead]

There are two much larger waiting rooms, one on each side, which are just to the North of the footbridge. There are about four "bus shelters" on each platform, as well. So, much better than we have been used too!

Excellent. Maybe things are improving in general.

 

[deltic08]

Excellent. Maybe things are improving in general.

Marvellous. Bus shelters and no platform canopies from the footbridge yet no expense was spared at the more lightly used bay platforms at Reading that are fully canopied. Some passengers have a difficult time using rail and certainly are not encouraged to travel. What happens in winter when the platforms are ankle deep in snow?

 

[Senex]

The curve just south of the station limits speeds to 85mph. Straightening that out would have needed a major deviation carving through the town to the south of the station. So even if was 115mph through the platforms they wouldn't be doing anywhere near that.

The bit that was cancelled was continuing the re-alignment northwards to restore the MML to its original route instead of deviating eastwards to pass over the old Joint line. I guess this was deleted because the attainable speed on this section wouldn't have been much higher than today, due to accelerating from or decelerating to the 85. As well as a 20mph increase in speed (remembering that taking out the slow bits gets a lot more benefit than accelerating the fast bits) the scheme has provided full length platforms straight enough to avoid huge gaps, and the station is now fully accessible.

Narrow platforms is probably a topic of its own, but as an example I give you Gatwick where in one place the yellow line is so close to the wall that it's impossible to stay within the yellow line with a wheelie suitcase even if nobody is standing there. Passenger numbers there are far higher than at MH.

Network Rail publicity shewed 90 for the curve south of the station rising to 110 south of the platforms and then continuing at that level.

 

[Flying Phil]

Network Rail publicity shewed 90 for the curve south of the station rising to 110 south of the platforms and then continuing at that level.

Yes the original speed diagram from NR (post #84) did show 90 mph round the curve South of the Station, then a steady 110 through the station and on Northbound.....but that was when the Great Bowden curve was to be re aligned. That was de-scoped and so we still have that speed limited curve to the North, hence the steady 90mph South (now 85mph according to post #334), through and to the North.

 

[alistairlees]

I feel they should double the width to be safe. They were originally hoping for 115mph linespeed here. What changed minds to only 85mph? An awful lot of money to spend on such little increase in speed. A short termism cop out once again in our railway infrastructure improvements.

Where are these stations with narrower platforms? Maybe a new thread is required.

I'd have to agree. Looking at pictures you would be barely able to get past another person with luggage standing in front of a lamp-post, without stepping beyond the yellow line. I would not want to do that if a train was approaching at speed. Nor would I want to do that if I was with children. Taking something like a school party on a trip would be a nightmare here. There is an enormous missed opportunity to have build this so that it was around about double the width. There is the space. And it would have been a small cost within the overall project cost (I recognise all budgets are tight). This is meant to last for something like 100 years. It probably isn't fit for the busiest times in the morning today.

 

[seconinline]

Both lines are now at full line speed 85mph through the platforms

 

[cactustwirly]

Marvellous. Bus shelters and no platform canopies from the footbridge yet no expense was spared at the more lightly used bay platforms at Reading that are fully canopied. Some passengers have a difficult time using rail and certainly are not encouraged to travel. What happens in winter when the platforms are ankle deep in snow?

What's Reading got to do with it?
Btw none of the bays at Reading are "lightly used", apart from 3 they all get at least 1tph

 

[deltic08]

What's Reading got to do with it?
Btw none of the bays at Reading are "lightly used", apart from 3 they all get at least 1tph

If you can't see the contrast, you wont understand the explanation.

 

[Flying Phil]

Well people certainly stand behind the yellow line when trains go through now! Yes, the 50mph TSRs have been lifted and 85 mph is a lot faster than we are used to...
The South end of the platform now has about a third of the edging slabs in place and is infilled to the subway.

 

[Flying Phil]

The car park is having the piles of rubble moved, then the level will be lowered and drainage pipes laid. There is a major electrical cable across the site to the telecoms mast that will need troughing. The old MR(?) lamp post is scheduled for removal, but hopefully to be preserved, not scrapped.
Some of the construction plant is now being taken away on a low loader.

 

[cactustwirly]

If you can't see the contrast, you wont understand the explanation.

I can, but you're comparing a major station, with a much smaller station.
Reading has significantly more services and passengers using it!

 

[deltic08]

I can, but you're comparing a major station, with a much smaller station.
Reading has significantly more services and passengers using it!

It still has intercity trains calling. Why should any passenger pay to wait for a train in the rain and snow. The footbridge has a cover over it and then nothing on the platform. Why bother to cover the footbridge? It doesn't encourage people to used expensive public transport.

 

[edwin_m]

Footbridges tend to be covered so the stairs don't get so icy and slippery. Possibly also to stop water getting into the lifts.

The "bus shelters" are actually a cut above anything you might find on the road, with powered sliding doors.

 

[John Webb]

....... The old MR(?) lamp post is scheduled for removal, but hopefully to be preserved, not scrapped........

More likely BR - but we'd happily give it a home at St Albans South signal box.........

 

[deltic08]

Footbridges tend to be covered so the stairs don't get so icy and slippery. Possibly also to stop water getting into the lifts.

The "bus shelters" are actually a cut above anything you might find on the road, with powered sliding doors.

Wow, bus shelters with doors. Do they sweep snow from platforms at the same time or don't they need to as only snow on footbridge stairs is slippery?

 

[edwin_m]

Wow, bus shelters with doors. Do they sweep snow from platforms at the same time or don't they need to as only snow on footbridge stairs is slippery?

Canopies, especially the type at Reading, won't keep snow off platforms.

 

[Flying Phil]

There is still the waiting room on the Northbound platform at the top of the entrance ramp from the station building..... so we can keep out of the snow until our train arrives.....and shelter at the top of the subway going Southbound! But seriously, this new station is, in fact, significantly better than the previous one in many respects.

 

[swt_passenger]

Canopies, especially the type at Reading, won't keep snow off platforms.

Indeed, and in other news NO platforms at Reading, including the bays, are canopied for their full length. Majority of the length perhaps, but then Reading is a Network Rail managed major national hub station, it’s on a completely different scale to Market Harborough.

 

[edwin_m]

According to Wikipedia Reading has 17 million passengers per year shared over 15 platforms. Market Harborough has 900,000 shared over 2 platforms so the useage per platform is under 50% of Reading's. This difference is increased further by the fact that many people change trains at Reading and almost none at Market Harborough, but they are excluded from these figures.

 

[deltic08]

According to Wikipedia Reading has 17 million passengers per year shared over 15 platforms. Market Harborough has 900,000 shared over 2 platforms so the useage per platform is under 50% of Reading's. This difference is increased further by the fact that many people change trains at Reading and almost none at Market Harborough, but they are excluded from these figures.

That is assuming all platforms at Reading are used equally which they are not but all platforms have canopies. MH have none.
My bus station has fewer than 900,000 footfalls per annum but all stands have canopies. Maybe MH would have more if there were canopies. After all, the fare paying passenger should come first but they don't as we all know.

 

[londonmidland]

More of a personal preference if anything but seeing as an increasing amount of stations are upgrading to white LED passenger information displays, I feel like this should've been done here during the installation.

They are significantly better at displaying text when the sun is shining directly on them, whereas the traditional orange LED’s are indistinguishable when this happens.

 

[cactustwirly]

That is assuming all platforms at Reading are used equally which they are not but all platforms have canopies. MH have none.
My bus station has fewer than 900,000 footfalls per annum but all stands have canopies. Maybe MH would have more if there were canopies. After all, the fare paying passenger should come first but they don't as we all know.

Market Harborough, is more like Chippenham or Stroud than Reading.

 

[deltic08]

Market Harborough, is more like Chippenham or Stroud than Reading.

Both Chippenham and Stroud stations have canopies. MH does not.

 

[yorksrob]

Surely a little canopy would be justified ?