Marston Vale Line Without Class 150s

[Bletchleyite]

i know i keep saying this but reliability has been really good over the last few months. It is so much better than 18mths - 2 years ago.

That it might be, but it's still unacceptably poor. Such poor service would never be tolerated on the mainline.

 

[DarloRich]

That it might be, but it's still unacceptably poor. Such poor service would never be tolerated on the mainline.

honestly it hasn't been bad. Until recently we haven't had a large number of cancellations based on train failure for quite a while.

 

[MK Tom]

I have been on the 153 off Bedford on the 150 diagram before now when all the school kids pile on from the private schools going to every station on the line. The unit is full and standing and you can hear it physically struggling with the weight. The only time I've known it be worse was when there was a PUT at Harrow and about 70 MK passengers walked from Euston to St Pancras including me and got on EMT up to Bedford then crammed into the 153.

Basically what I'm saying is running 153s on that diagram is not remotely viable as normal practice and I'm very worried that that will be LM's answer - just use the 153s exclusively. Unless they majorly re-jig the timetable with a third unit doing an extra diagram, it won't be enough.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Let's see how the D-train trial goes. As I've said before, LM are very receptive to "odd" units (i.e. Stourbridge), and the line needs an interim solution prior to electrification and EMUs for EWR, lasting for about the design life of D-trains. Three two-car units in LUL layout (enough seats for most of the time, good standee space for the school trains) would be ideal, and would allow a spare at Bletchley.

 

[richieb1971]

Lots of DMU's in preservation, dig some out.

 

[swt class 450]

Lots of DMU's in preservation, dig some out.

There is a 141 for sale - http://www.wnxx.com/forsale/index.htm - if they want it. Only £25000!

 

[Bletchleyite]

Shame Bletchley TMD is long dead and buried - a traditional depot like that would probably quite happily take on something unusual as a depot "pet", a bit like Aylesbury's bubble car.

 

[DarloRich]

Let's see how the D-train trial goes. As I've said before, LM are very receptive to "odd" units (i.e. Stourbridge), and the line needs an interim solution prior to electrification and EMUs for EWR, lasting for about the design life of D-trains. Three two-car units in LUL layout (enough seats for most of the time, good standee space for the school trains) would be ideal, and would allow a spare at Bletchley.

I think we will get these tube trains IF the trial goes well.

Shame Bletchley TMD is long dead and buried - a traditional depot like that would probably quite happily take on something unusual as a depot "pet", a bit like Aylesbury's bubble car.

best tell Bombardier that

 

[pemma]

According to Tony Miles there's a risk of 153s not being released by GWR meaning the LM 150s would stay put but if the move does go ahead the most likely option at present is single 153s running to an enhanced timetable.

 

[PHILIPE]

There has been so much delayed for various reasons in cascading that I've stopped surmising and just going to wait to see what happens. What we think could happen today can change tomorrow.

 

[Bletchleyite]

According to Tony Miles there's a risk of 153s not being released by GWR meaning the LM 150s would stay put but if the move does go ahead the most likely option at present is single 153s running to an enhanced timetable.

If you think every 45 minutes or so is enhanced - as I've said on another thread a less memorable if slightly more frequent service is to me quite likely to cause a reduction in usage.

Unless they can get it to half-hourly with three units by cutting the layover, in which case that could cause significant increases...at which point you'll need more than 153s!

 

[pemma]

I think it depends on the exact timetable. Thinking about my local station in the morning peak we currently have 0658, 0803, 0902 as arrival times from the direction most commuters to the station arrive from. 0700, 0745, 0830, 0915 would make the service more appealing to those who have to start at 9am.

 

[Bletchleyite]

And to be fair the present timetable is not clockface for the whole day, though I really have no idea why.

 

[158722]

If you think every 45 minutes or so is enhanced - as I've said on another thread a less memorable if slightly more frequent service is to me quite likely to cause a reduction in usage.

Unless they can get it to half-hourly with three units by cutting the layover, in which case that could cause significant increases...at which point you'll need more than 153s!

Current running times are 43-44 minutes, so no way you can run a half hourly service with three units. Is there any potential for skip-stop calling patterns for some of the lessor used stations? An hourly all shacks and an hourly semi-fast taking less than 40mins would be just about do-able with 3 units, but tight if anything goes wrong.

Unit 1: Bed 0700>Bly 0743 (stopper), Bly 0748>Bed 0825 (fast) > 0830, etc
Unit 2: Bed 0730>Bly 0808 (fast), Bly 0812>Bed 0855 (stopper) > 0900, etc
Unit 3: Bed 0800>Bly 0843 (stopper), Bly 0848>Bed 0925 (fast) > 0930, etc

Perhaps up to 1000 with half hourly, hourly to 1600, then half hourly until 1900 and hourly again thereafter?

Just a thought...

 

[sk688]

Werent the 387s stored at a Bletchley TMD before entering service ?

Couldnt that be used for 150s/153 instead of coming a long way from the other depot , which others have said is a far way away

 

[Ianno87]

Current running times are 43-44 minutes, so no way you can run a half hourly service with three units. Is there any potential for skip-stop calling patterns for some of the lessor used stations? An hourly all shacks and an hourly semi-fast taking less than 40mins would be just about do-able with 3 units, but tight if anything goes wrong.

Unit 1: Bed 0700>Bly 0743 (stopper), Bly 0748>Bed 0825 (fast) > 0830, etc
Unit 2: Bed 0730>Bly 0808 (fast), Bly 0812>Bed 0855 (stopper) > 0900, etc
Unit 3: Bed 0800>Bly 0843 (stopper), Bly 0848>Bed 0925 (fast) > 0930, etc

Perhaps up to 1000 with half hourly, hourly to 1600, then half hourly until 1900 and hourly again thereafter?

Just a thought...

I agree - if 1-2 stops were dropped out of each train*, then an end to end trip would be about 40/41 minutes each way, enough for 3 units to make a half hourly service with 3-5 minute turnrounds at each end - not far for a driver to change ends on a Dogbox (although connections at Bletchley would be messed up)

Would be interesting to see what a half hourly all day service (slightly sped up) would do to demand on the line. I think there is some untapoed potential to be had.

Alternatively, the current timetable is pretty much kept, but with the extra unit coming out to do one or two return trips as peak extras in the morning, and again in the evening, to meet school and London commuter demand.

*Provided it's not Lidlington, of course.

 

[MK Tom]

Can't we just nick that enhanced 144? That'd do the job fine.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Assuming they are only banned for ideological reasons and not practical ones, a pair of Pacers would be quite adequate for the job, whether "e144s" or just 142s. 2x16m would fit the platforms fine.

 

[mervyn72]

In the SW 2x143 regularly call at at St James' Park where it is local door only. There are platform and on train announcements to make sure that you are in the correct carriage but with no corridor connection, if you are in the wrong portion and want to get off, well tough. Same at Newton St Cyres I believe. What's stopping 2x153 doing this at a few stations on Marston Vale. They even have corridor connections?

 

[Bletchleyite]

In the SW 2x143 regularly call at at St James' Park where it is local door only. There are platform and on train announcements to make sure that you are in the correct carriage but with no corridor connection, if you are in the wrong portion and want to get off, well tough. Same at Newton St Cyres I believe. What's stopping 2x153 doing this at a few stations on Marston Vale. They even have corridor connections?

I believe they would hang off the platform over crossings at a couple of stations, causing disruption to road traffic.

 

[adrock1976]

Werent the 387s stored at a Bletchley TMD before entering service ?

Couldnt that be used for 150s/153 instead of coming a long way from the other depot , which others have said is a far way away

Forgive me here, but I believe that there would be a major problem that would be obvious in regards to using Class 387s.

The Bedford - Bletchley line presently has a notable absence of overhead wires to power the Class 387s.

 

[grumblingalong]

Forgive me here, but I believe that there would be a major problem that would be obvious in regards to using Class 387s.

The Bedford - Bletchley line presently has a notable absence of overhead wires to power the Class 387s.

Not if we strap a few transit engines to them!

 

[Bletchleyite]

Forgive me here, but I believe that there would be a major problem that would be obvious in regards to using Class 387s.

The Bedford - Bletchley line presently has a notable absence of overhead wires to power the Class 387s.

Quite, were this not the case they'd almost certainly use 319s (and lengthen the platforms).

 

[TC60054]

Forgive me here, but I believe that there would be a major problem that would be obvious in regards to using Class 387s.

The Bedford - Bletchley line presently has a notable absence of overhead wires to power the Class 387s.

I'm not sure he meant using 387s on the Marston Vale, just by using the facilities there to maintain the units...

 

[Bletchleyite]

I'm not sure he meant using 387s on the Marston Vale, just by using the facilities there to maintain the units...

I think the issue is more that there is no dedicated spare 153, it's also the spare for Cov/Nun. So it has to by definition be a fair way from one of the two, unless they kept it at Northampton or something.

 

[HLE]

These days if the Nun/Cov 153 fails they don't send the spare at Tyseley, they uncouple the 153 on the Rugeleys and run it down to Coventry.

 

[swt class 450]

Could London Midland just use 4 x 153s to provide a half hourly service on the Bedford to Bletchley line all day?

 

[PHILIPE]

Could London Midland just use 4 x 153s to provide a half hourly service on the Bedford to Bletchley line all day?

Where would they come from ?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Where would they come from ?

And that's 8 traincrew to provide a service on a line that is a financial basket case except for about 2 busy trains per day (the school trains).

 

[MML]

I do believe ridership on the line would improve with a 30 minute interval service. An hourly service just doesn't encourage anybody to leave their 4x4 at home, but a more frequent turn up and go service may do just that.
Bus routes frequently have better loadings when the traveller knows they won't have to wait for an hour for the next bus.

Given that 12-car EMU are now operated with DOO on Thameslink, why can't the Class 153 operate without a guard ?. An onboard ticket machine and revenue protection duties could be undertaken by a single inspector randomly jumping off and on the 4 x Class 153 plying their way between Bedford and Bletchley. Improving the service with no great increase in staffing costs.

I suspect staff costs have been the Achilles heal of this line for many years with manual crossings to be operated in days gone by. About time it moved with the times and opened some platforms for the Kempston Retail Interchange park to encourage shoppers too.