Marylebone rail workers 'held lockdown baby shower' at closed station patisserie

[island]

The trouble is this sort of disregard for the rules tends to lead to stricter rules... which then penalise the law-abiding when the non-law-abiding will keep breaking them. That's not very succinctly put but you and I end up paying for others' misdemeanours.

Quite.

 

[CyrusWuff]

Well it seems the incident originally went unnoticed until someone noticed a post on a social media feed.

Alternatively, it went unnoticed until "David" or "Peter" leaked it to the BBC...which would almost certainly be a breach of their contract and grounds for disciplinary action to be taken against them if Chiltern find out who they are, in addition to any disciplinary action taken against those involved in the baby shower itself.

 

[bramling]

Indeed. Imagine if a local police station were left the keys to a closed premises incase of emergency and their staff entered it solely for the purpose of having a party. In those circumstances it would be likely the Home secretary would have to give a statement on the matter.



Well it seems the incident originally went unnoticed until someone noticed a post on a social media feed.

Using your reasoning if a member of rail staff has a key allowing them access to cabs on trains then they are allowed to enter a cab whenever they want for whatever reason. I don't know what agreements are in place between rail staff and train companies but I would hope that isn't the case.

If I was leasing the retail premises in question and I hadn't had my rent and utility bills waived in full for the period the unit couldn't be opened then it wouldn't be a question of whether I would take action, it would be a question of whether the compensation from the rail workers in question is settled out-of-court or in court. Do you remember the news story from the below link? If a man can be arrested for theft of electricity by using a plug socket without authorisation, then the rail workers in question turning on lights or a tap for the purpose of their party might also be classed as theft of a utility.

A man was arrested for charging his phone on a train. Why?

Newsbeat asks where you can legally plug in and charge your phone, as a man is arrested after using a plug socket on a train.

www.bbc.co.uk

Or, the local Patisserie Valerie manager will be in communication with the relevant Chiltern manager expressing concern about the incident, with Chiltern replying with their assurance that the matter will be dealt with and won't happen again, and that will be the end of it with both parties coming away content.

The incident was daft, but it really isn't the end of the world some people are making it out to be. I can readily think of at least three "events" which have occurred in my neck of the woods since last March, with the only material difference being there was no mothballed patisserie involved. Two of them took place inside a messroom, the other at a booking-on point.

 

[Ianno87]

Or, the local Patisserie Valerie manager will be in communication with the relevant Chiltern manager expressing concern about the incident, with Chiltern replying with their assurance that the matter will be dealt with and won't happen again, and that will be the end of it with both parties coming away content.

Or PV, if they wanted to, could possibly press charges at Chiltern for their employees trespassing on their premises.

If I obtained a key to your house and just took it upon myself to walk in, what would you do?

You doth protest too much on this matter, from your responses.

 

[bramling]

Or PV, if they wanted to, could possibly press charges at Chiltern for their employees trespassing on their premises.

If I obtained a key to your house and just took it upon myself to walk in, what would you do?

You doth protest too much on this matter, from your responses.

I think the key point from the above is if they wanted to. What's in it for PV to make a massive thing about it? Tenancies are a regular feature on stations, and its very much in both parties' interest to have a good working relationship. Suing people for theft of electricity or pressing charges for trespass is hardly going to achieve that, especially if no damage was done to the premises.

I'm not saying the staff should have done what they did, just that I don't think it's quite the big issue some people seem to want it to be.

 

[peters]

Or, the local Patisserie Valerie manager will be in communication with the relevant Chiltern manager expressing concern about the incident, with Chiltern replying with their assurance that the matter will be dealt with and won't happen again, and that will be the end of it with both parties coming away content.

I take it you've never met the MD of a struggling company or seen a business leasing agreement? If the lease has been breached financial compensation is the minimum they'll accept, after all Chiltern or Network Rail would be entitled to compensation if Patisserie Valerie broke their terms and it's possible they have had to pay up for minor infringements in the past. If their finances are really bad they might even suggest immediate termination of the lease is the only solution.

It's not exaggerating to say the incident could lose the station thousands in revenue. An apology is not going to change that.

 

[peters]

I think the key point from the above is if they wanted to. What's in it for PV to make a massive thing about it? Tenancies are a regular feature on stations, and its very much in both parties' interest to have a good working relationship. Suing people for theft of electricity or pressing charges for trespass is hardly going to achieve that, especially if no damage was done to the premises.

I'm not saying the staff should have done what they did, just that I don't think it's quite the big issue some people seem to want it to be.

Have you forgotten there's a global pandemic on and there's currently many empty units in prime locations, which no-one wants to move into while so many people are working from home. Landlords are seeing someone wanting to move in before Christmas 2021 as a good deal in the circumstances!

 

[Gloster]

I think the key point from the above is if they wanted to. What's in it for PV to make a massive thing about it? Tenancies are a regular feature on stations, and its very much in both parties' interest to have a good working relationship. Suing people for theft of electricity or pressing charges for trespass is hardly going to achieve that, especially if no damage was done to the premises.

I may have missed something, but the patisserie’s commercial relationship is with Network Rail or Chiltern Railways, whichever is the owner/lessor. It is not with a group of people who are employed by either the owning company or the lessor company. It may be too small a matter for the patisserie to feel that suing for trespass or theft is appropriate, but - if I was in their position - I would expect the group’s employers to take some disciplinary action. Would you be happy if an employee of your landlord borrowed a key to your house and invited friends round for a tea party while you were on holiday, even if they tidied up afterwards and removed their rubbish? Unless there is a very odd tenancy agreement, as long as you pay your rent and keep to the conditions of an agreement, you have absolute discretion over who enters the property (the few exceptions do not apply here).

 

[bramling]

I may have missed something, but the patisserie’s commercial relationship is with Network Rail or Chiltern Railways, whichever is the owner/lessor. It is not with a group of people who are employed by either the owning company or the lessor company. It may be too small a matter for the patisserie to feel that suing for trespass or theft is appropriate, but - if I was in their position - I would expect the group’s employers to take some disciplinary action. Would you be happy if an employee of your landlord borrowed a key to your house and invited friends round for a tea party while you were on holiday, even if they tidied up afterwards and removed their rubbish? Unless there is a very odd tenancy agreement, as long as you pay your rent and keep to the conditions of an agreement, you have absolute discretion over who enters the property (the few exceptions do not apply here).

I'm not disagreeing that some kind of disciplinary action is likely - indeed I'd expect warnings to be being issued. I just don't think that suing for electricity or trespass is a very proportionate nor likely response. I'd fully expect Chiltern's assurance that they're dealing with it to be the end of the issue. In non-Covid times this wouldn't have attracted much attention.

Likewise I can't see Chiltern dismissing most of their team of station staff. Perhaps I'll be proved wrong, who knows.

 

[matt_world2004]

Could the individuals involved be prosecuted for railway trespass. The shop is on railway property and they had no legal right to be there.

 

[bramling]

Could the individuals involved be prosecuted for railway trespass. The shop is on railway property and they had no legal right to be there.

I don’t claim to be expert in this, however I believe the answer is no.

For the specific offences of railway trespass to apply, my understanding is the person has to be in proximity to the operational railway. It would be hard to argue that a tenancy meets this requirement. Otherwise the person has to have refused to leave when asked by staff, and that doesn’t seem to apply in this instance!

I am open to correction, however.

Realistically, it’s a management matter for Chiltern unless there’s any aspect PV wish to pursue, something I can’t really see happening. The police might be more interested in whether any Covid laws had been broken.

 

[DorkingMain]

Realistically, as others have said, if they were in the mess room together 5+ days a week, I can't see how much harm has been done from a COVID perspective. Despite what the media would have you believe with their ridiculous long-lens shots of people walking in the park, overall compliance with the lockdown has actually been said to be *better* than the experts anticipated - I therefore don't think enforcing rules for the sake of rules is a fair or proportional approach.

Using the emergency key to get into a closed branch of PV, and posting about it on social media seems like more of an egregious mistake, though that's one for their employer to deal with.

 

[johntea]

In similar news I note that Simon Cotton and his pals of Harrogate fame have been fined £1,000 for a lockdown lock in at one of his hotels! (not quite sure how the fines work, £100 a person for a NYE party doesn't seem much of a deterrent)

He would usually turn up to the opening of an envelope but has been awfully quiet on this so far, I suspect delaying a simple apology will make things worse, as he has done plenty of promotion over the past year on his business helping out the NHS

Police issue £1,000 fine for illegal New Year's Eve party at Harrogate hotel - The Stray Ferret

North Yorkshire Police has issued a £1,000 fine for a breach of coronavirus regulations at a hotel in Harrogate on New Year's Eve.

www.thestrayferret.co.uk

North Yorkshire Police has issued a £1,000 fixed penalty notice for a breach of coronavirus regulations at a hotel in Harrogate on New Year’s Eve.

Last week the Stray Ferret published claims that Harrogate hotelier Simon Cotton flouted covid restrictions by holding a party for himself and 10 friends at the Yorkshire Hotel on New Year’s Eve. Mr Cotton has consistently denied the allegations.

The Stray Ferret spoke to multiple sources who allege the party ate on a single table, did not observe social distancing and that speakers were brought in to play music with bar staff on hand to serve drinks into the early hours of the morning.

The party stayed in the hotel overnight and new staff were then brought in to serve the group breakfast on New Year’s Day.

Our sources say some staff were extremely unhappy at being asked to work but feared for their jobs if they refused.

 

[theblackwatch]

Not only that, they were then stupid enough to post it on social media. They deserve whatever disciplinary and police action follows just for being that brain dead.

The police wouldn't have done anything, they would have been too busy sat inside a cafe eating breakfast, advertising the fact by parking right outside it....

COVID-19: Nine police officers who had breakfast together inside cafe fined for breaching lockdown

A man walking past the cafe in southeast London saw the officers a week into the latest lockdown.

news.sky.com

Nine police officers who had breakfast together inside a cafe have been fined for breaching COVID lockdown rules on duty.

The officers, from the Metropolitan Police, were fined £200 each and told to "reflect on their choices."

They were spotted by IT manager Brian Jennings walking past the cafe near their base beside the River Thames at 9am earlier this month, a week into the latest lockdown.

 

[peters]

The police wouldn't have done anything, they would have been too busy sat inside a cafe eating breakfast, advertising the fact by parking right outside it....

COVID-19: Nine police officers who had breakfast together inside cafe fined for breaching lockdown

A man walking past the cafe in southeast London saw the officers a week into the latest lockdown.

news.sky.com

Already posted in this thread and a few police officers not following the rules isn't any form of defence for the Chiltern workers, especially considering the cafe workers let the police in and served them.

 

[peters]

Realistically, as others have said, if they were in the mess room together 5+ days a week, I can't see how much harm has been done from a COVID perspective. Despite what the media would have you believe with their ridiculous long-lens shots of people walking in the park, overall compliance with the lockdown has actually been said to be *better* than the experts anticipated - I therefore don't think enforcing rules for the sake of rules is a fair or proportional approach.

Using the emergency key to get into a closed branch of PV, and posting about it on social media seems like more of an egregious mistake, though that's one for their employer to deal with.

The one thing to consider is the report said the party consisted of people both on and off shift and possibly one of the invitees was on maternity leave.

Given we have understandably had unions raising concerns about driver training being done during a pandemic, I hope they've also raised concerns about any mess rooms which don't allow social distancing.

 

[island]

Or PV, if they wanted to, could possibly press charges at Chiltern for their employees trespassing on their premises.

If I obtained a key to your house and just took it upon myself to walk in, what would you do?

Trespass on non-residential premises is not generally a criminal matter.

As mentioned above, this is not going to go legal; someone at PV will email someone at NR/Chiltern expressing their disapproval, a reply will go back with an apology and a promise to take the appropriate action internally, and that will be that.

 

[E16 Cyclist]

Not sure if this makes any difference or not but greggs a few months ago applied for planning permission to move into the Patisserie Valarie unit so that may make it something of a grey area as to whether there was a trespass or not as clearly Patisserie Valarie are not planning on returning

 

[Yew]

The purpose of life is not to try and suppress a virus, if the rules don't allow reasonable and natural social interactions, then they will be broken.

 

[island]

Not sure if this makes any difference or not but greggs a few months ago applied for planning permission to move into the Patisserie Valarie unit so that may make it something of a grey area as to whether there was a trespass or not as clearly Patisserie Valarie are not planning on returning

That quite probably changes the matter, especially if PV had surrendered the lease already.

 

[Cowley]

I think we’re probably done with this one for now.
Thanks all.