May 2019 timetable changes

[paulravuslante]

I've noticed a few changes on Sundays on the GEML in real train times.

Tfl Rail moves to a regular 4tph all stations Shenfield to Liverpool Street service instead of the current 2tph Gidea Park / 2tph Shenfield split. This means Maryland now gets a regular 4tph service as the previous Gidea Park trains will no longer skip.

Linked to this, the Sunday GA Southend Services are speeded up and miss Brentwood, Harold Wood and Gidea Park. These station stops are replaced by the previous Gidea Park trains which are extended to Shenfield.

Mainline services are also speeded up on the London to Shenfield stretch on Sundays.

Of course, due to the current engineering works it'll be interesting to see when a weekend service actually resumes on the Southern GEML.

Additionally, on the GWR, TfL will start running two trains per hour from Paddington to Hayes & Harlington on Sunday daytimes. Acton Mainline and West Ealing will gain a half hourly Sunday service during the day as a result. Timetable shown here http://content.tfl.gov.uk/paddington-heathrow-19-may-14-december-2019.pdf

 

[JonathanH]

Additionally, on the GWR, TfL will start running two trains per hour from Paddington to Hayes & Harlington on Sunday daytimes. Acton Mainline and West Ealing will gain a half hourly Sunday service during the day as a result. Timetable shown here http://content.tfl.gov.uk/paddington-heathrow-19-may-14-december-2019.pdf

What is the future engineering access on the stretch from Paddington to Airport Junction if there isn't the opportunity of two-track railway on Sundays in the future? Same question applies for the GEML.

 

[306024]

It still exists, but just not all day Sunday. That’s why the Hayes service starts late and finishes early. Similar on the GEML, where the timetable allows two track possessions until about 08.30. On the GE the overhead line work is nearly finished between Liverpool St and Shenfield so the possessions which were agreed for this work are no longer needed.

In future if NR require longer possessions (and they still will on occasions) the timetable will need to be amended in the usual way.

 

[paulravuslante]

On the GWML, possibly confining work to before / after the times when the Hayes services run? Or running a reduced timetable all day as an alternative?

 

[adrock1976]

Regarding the 2 track timetable for engineering works and if it is the Main Lines that are closed, will the Crossrail trains be held in the Royal Oak/Ladbroke Grove area at a signal so as to allow the Heathrow Express to cross over to the Relief Lines and run in front?

This is based on when the Main Lines were closed on a Sunday in the summer of 2017, when I was on the local service.

 

[paulravuslante]

Regarding the 2 track timetable for engineering works and if it is the Main Lines that are closed, will the Crossrail trains be held in the Royal Oak/Ladbroke Grove area at a signal so as to allow the Heathrow Express to cross over to the Relief Lines and run in front?

This is based on when the Main Lines were closed on a Sunday in the summer of 2017, when I was on the local service.

Only noticed that occasionally during disruption and only if the signaller was on the ball. Typically on the two track timetable departures are flighted so the locals leave just after the Hex from Pad. Coming back from the airport is fairly random but there is little benefit in taking the Express from Heathrow on a Sunday as it can’t overtake locals mostly. Some journeys are even scheduled to take longer than 15 minutes but it isn’t advertised and most at Hex would not admit it.

 

[Failed Unit]

They would have to go to Holton-le-Moor to cross over, though, and there would need to be some minor infrastructure work doing (only stop markers, as I assume the driver will change ends through the unit, but would still need to be done).
With Rasen being only two-car length as well, the unit would be blocking the foot crossing for however long it was stood there, which would make access to the platform "slightly" difficult for intending passengers who got to the station after the unit arrived from Holton-le-Moor!

Oh, and don't forget you've got the freights (plus the hourly East Mids service from Dec 2021) to weave it around, too.
Not sure Rasen is an enticing enough target to make it worth their while working round the issues involved.

When the 170s were on the route the station could take 3 car no problems, but now if a 222 ever appears on the route they have a stop board so only the rear coaches are on the platforms and the foot crossing is clear (just the same as when the HST used to serve the station)

Agree, not really worth while but going to Market Rasen. It would be great if some of those horrible big gaps were filled. Not sure if they could extend to Barnetby to make it more useful, at least passengers could change for Grimsby and Cleethorpes.

It is a pity they could not add an 0806 London - Lincoln and a 1926 Lincoln - London service although the former would involve GC agreeing to give up an existing path. I see some of these services are sub-opimal because of EMT services.

 

[Class 170101]

In the April Modern Railways that arrived yesterday it mentioned that there will also be a new 0806 from Kings Cross to Lincoln - though it looked like that was starting in December ? That will also help fill the gap at Stevenage as there is the xx:28 stopper northbound at every hour except 0828.

See the East Coast thread an 08:06 from Kings Cross as quoted above from December 2019 possibly.

 

[Glenn1969]

That path is however currently occupied by a GC Sunderland service. Would they give it up easily?

 

[Class 170101]

Depends on Track access rights. However didn't they have a 16:06 at one time that seems to have disappeared and been replaced by a 16:27 departure? There looks to be a slot at 08:27 maybe?

 

[Glenn1969]

That might be deemed to be too near the 0830 Newcastle service? Not sure

 

[Esker-pades]

That might be deemed to be too near the 0830 Newcastle service? Not sure

There are XX:27 departures at other hours, so it will be fine in that respect. I'm not sure about if its path exists all the way to York though.

 

[atraindriver]

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[gtat]

When are the new, faster GWR services being introduced in to the timetable (e.g. Bath Spa to London Paddington in 75 minutes rather than 90 minutes)? I thought it was going to be for the May 2019 timetable change, but I've just looked to book a journey in June and they are all still 90 minutes?

 

[swt_passenger]

When are the new, faster GWR services being introduced in to the timetable (e.g. Bath Spa to London Paddington in 75 minutes rather than 90 minutes)? I thought it was going to be for the May 2019 timetable change, but I've just looked to book a journey in June and they are all still 90 minutes?

It was of course originally going to be Dec 2018, then people posting here seemed to assume a deferral to May 2019, but I’m pretty sure a GWR insider then explained there’d be a whole year’s delay.

 

[BluePenguin]

It was of course originally going to be Dec 2018, then people posting here seemed to assume a deferral to May 2019, but I’m pretty sure a GWR insider then explained there’d be a whole year’s delay.

But exactly WHY though? It doesn't make any sense how slowly the wheels turn in the railway *pun intended*

A year is a huge amount of time to wait for something that could be sorted much quicker than that

 

[Wilts Wanderer]

December 2019 is indeed the current date for the GWR timetable recast / enhancement.

 

[ctrh136]

Not sure if this has been mentioned but SE are promoting faster journey times to Victoria from Ashford / Medway etc. - looks to be via re-pathing these in front of the Thameslink trains at Herne Hill (which caused 4-5 mins to be added onto the journey from Bromley South to Victoria in the May 2018 timetable - in fact integration with Thameslink services is rather poor in general with the services via Denmark Hill still being stuck behind slow Thameslink trains and taking a good 10 mins longer than they could with better timing, see http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/W82880/2019/06/05/advanced). I'm not sure how well this will work in practice as I've found that the stopping services via Herne Hill often run a couple of minutes late anyway.

 

[gtat]

It was of course originally going to be Dec 2018, then people posting here seemed to assume a deferral to May 2019, but I’m pretty sure a GWR insider then explained there’d be a whole year’s delay.

December 2019 is indeed the current date for the GWR timetable recast / enhancement.

Thank you both for your helpful replies. I look forward to the faster journey from December, then!

 

[BluePenguin]

Not sure if this has been mentioned but SE are promoting faster journey times to Victoria from Ashford / Medway etc. - looks to be via re-pathing these in front of the Thameslink trains at Herne Hill (which caused 4-5 mins to be added onto the journey from Bromley South to Victoria in the May 2018 timetable - in fact integration with Thameslink services is rather poor in general with the services via Denmark Hill still being stuck behind slow Thameslink trains and taking a good 10 mins longer than they could with better timing, see http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/W82880/2019/06/05/advanced). I'm not sure how well this will work in practice as I've found that the stopping services via Herne Hill often run a couple of minutes late anyway.

I don't see any time savings at all? That journey is 2 hours 9 minutes. Apparently changing at Bromley South for a 4 minute connection will bring that down to 1 hours 59 minutes.

None of the (through) journeys on that date nor before or after are less than 2 hours :-/

 

[ctrh136]

I don't see any time savings at all? That journey is 2 hours 9 minutes. Apparently changing at Bromley South for a 4 minute connection will bring that down to 1 hours 59 minutes.

None of the (through) journeys on that date nor before or after are less than 2 hours :-/

That is the one that is still pathed badly against Thameslink trains (the stopper via Catford) where there is 8 mins of pathing allowance between BMS and DMK - I think it's slower than the stopper via Herne Hill!

The ones that have changed are the fast trains from BMS to VIC via HNH, example being:
Before (pathed after TL train at HNH): http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/W00857/2019/04/17/advanced
New timetable (pathed before TL train at HNH): http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/W80848/2019/06/05/advanced

 

[swt_passenger]

But exactly WHY though? It doesn't make any sense how slowly the wheels turn in the railway *pun intended*

A year is a huge amount of time to wait for something that could be sorted much quicker than that

Did you miss all the discussions in these forums last summer when Network Rail announced that the Dec 2018 planned timetable changes would be cancelled for eight TOCs. Rail Magazine summarised it:

The decision follows the chaotic introduction of the May 2018 timetable which has caused hundreds of cancellations on GTR and Northern. Neither is yet running the planned service that was due to start from May 20.
Haines consulted with NR and operators. The government accepted the recommendations, which involves some operators introducing planned changes while others will continue with May 2018’s timetable in place until May 2019.
https://www.railmagazine.com/news/network/no-december-timetable-changes-for-eight-tocs

That sort of article is why many people anticipated, (wrongly it turns out with hindsight), that everything planned would only be deferred until May.

 

[317 forever]

December 2019 is indeed the current date for the GWR timetable recast / enhancement.

This could mean a severe reduction in stopping trains between London Paddington and Reading, with Crossrail or TfL Rail taking these over. I even wonder whether there will still be through trains from Hayes & Harlington to Didcot for example.

 

[700007]

This could mean a severe reduction in stopping trains between London Paddington and Reading, with Crossrail or TfL Rail taking these over. I even wonder whether there will still be through trains from Hayes & Harlington to Didcot for example.

The plan is for the London Paddington to Reading service to initially go over to TfL Rail 2tph with the London Paddington to Didcot Parkway service staying at GWR. Some extra peak time trains will be provided by TfL Rail using 9 car 345s as I understand it. It will cause irregularities as TfL Rail services will initially be skipping Iver and Langley although the stations are managed by them.

 

[VT 390]

The plan is for the London Paddington to Reading service to initially go over to TfL Rail 2tph with the London Paddington to Didcot Parkway service staying at GWR. Some extra peak time trains will be provided by TfL Rail using 9 car 345s as I understand it. It will cause irregularities as TfL Rail services will initially be skipping Iver and Langley although the stations are managed by them.

Could the Reading TFL stopping service call at Iver and Langley as well with the GWR Didcot service only calling at Twyford, Maidenhead, Slough, West Drayton, Hayes & Harlington and Ealing Broadway?
This would also mean passengers from Maidenhead, Twyford and stations between Reading and Didcot could have slightly faster London journeys.

 

[BucksBones]

Additionally, on the GWR, TfL will start running two trains per hour from Paddington to Hayes & Harlington on Sunday daytimes. Acton Mainline and West Ealing will gain a half hourly Sunday service during the day as a result. Timetable shown here http://content.tfl.gov.uk/paddington-heathrow-19-may-14-december-2019.pdf

Poor old Hanwell, still no Sunday service.

 

[700007]

Poor old Hanwell, still no Sunday service.

This allows for relevant maintenance work to still be carried out on the tracks between London Paddington and Hayes centred around the existing paths of trains. Hanwell Station also is a grade listed station - having the station closed on Sunday helps for necessary upgrade works be carried out safely.

Rest assured a Sunday service will start in the near future. Look towards the December timetable change....

 

[317 forever]

The plan is for the London Paddington to Reading service to initially go over to TfL Rail 2tph with the London Paddington to Didcot Parkway service staying at GWR. Some extra peak time trains will be provided by TfL Rail using 9 car 345s as I understand it. It will cause irregularities as TfL Rail services will initially be skipping Iver and Langley although the stations are managed by them.

Thank you for your clarity. I can see how I feel about going before December and having the chance of seeing more 387s in the area.

 

[paulravuslante]

Could the Reading TFL stopping service call at Iver and Langley as well with the GWR Didcot service only calling at Twyford, Maidenhead, Slough, West Drayton, Hayes & Harlington and Ealing Broadway?
This would also mean passengers from Maidenhead, Twyford and stations between Reading and Didcot could have slightly faster London journeys.

I'm not sure if it's possible though as the services cannot overtake slower services. From other posts it just sounds like TfL Rail taking over two of the GWR services on the same timetable as at present. Therefore services bound for Didcot skip Burnham and Langley and Reading bound services skip Iver and Langley. I believe the aspiration when the full Elizabeth line timetable rolls out is to have GWR provide some semi fast services though.

 

[Kite159]

Not sure if already mentioned, but it appears the Lichfield City terminators have been extended to Lichfield Trent Valley on the Cross City line