May 2021 Timetable Change

[Wilts Wanderer]

I do appreciate the efforts of staff to get out and run the services but it is just a bit frustrating that this train crew problem has persisted for a few years with GWR (and probably others), particularly at weekends. I just hope there is a commitment to sorting out the problem from GWR so that those of us who NEED to use trains to access employment can do so with greater confidence.

I will also say thank you to all of you who have been out over the past year helping us get to where we need to be.

I think you need to remember that it really IS ‘Covid Covid Covid’ - just because Boris has eased the travel restrictions as case numbers have come down doesn’t mean that the massive backlogs in competency training, new starter training, retirement vacancies and actual losses due to staff sickness itself have magically gone away overnight. This is going to take months and months to recover from (and that’s praying that there won’t be a further major wave of illness.) Not overpromising the train service is entirely the right choice as far as I’m concerned, and given the low passenger loadings north of Cheltenham and the availability of connections to Worcester via WPW on the replacement XC services that will be maintaining the normal 2hrly frequency at Ashchurch - give GWR and XC credit for arranging that, it’s not always you see competing companies covering each other’s backs - it is logical to ensure the Stroud service is maintained rather than multiple ad-hoc cancellations on the day, which could still be the case if the remaining IET workings are not possible to cover.

(It’s easier to reinstate train services later in the year if projections proved too pessimistic than to advertise services that then require taking out later if you’ve oversold yourself. The paths are all there in the timetable ready to go if needed.)

 

[Kite159]

I take it you are referring to the GWR services between the cities of Gloucester and Worcester. There are, of course, plenty of trains between the two counties, in the shape of XC services calling at Worcestershire Parkway.

Depends what the connections are like between a northbound Cardiff - Nottingham to a Worcester bound GWR service if that option is viable.

Who wants to spend say 45 minutes at Worcestershire Parkway?

 

[pompeyfan]

And the railway is desperate to provide the train service for this purpose but sadly we just can’t quite achieve that yet, Covid has exacerbated traincrew shortages to chronic levels.

You only have to look at the disruption around Salisbury today to show you can plan something that is a reduced service on normal levels and it’s still not possible to achieve.

more cancellations on Sunday and Monday although the plan for today looks different with every other Salisbury cancelled reducing Overton, Whitchurch and Grateley to two hourly.

 

[Kite159]

more cancellations on Sunday and Monday although the plan for today looks different with every other Salisbury cancelled reducing Overton, Whitchurch and Grateley to two hourly.

But seems those trains which are running are carrying on to London instead of being spun at Basingstoke like on Friday/Saturday which surely uses up more staff? (Unless the staff change at Basingstoke?)

 

[pompeyfan]

I can only assume they couldn’t utilise the crew more efficiently on Basingstoke shuttles and so cancelling every other frees up 4 hours worth of work?

 

[infobleep]

There's also a gap in the Waterloo service from Reading between 2212 and 2302, so combined with the gap in the North Downs service this makes an evening out in Reading from Wokingham not as easy as it once was.

Perhaps they don't want you to have an evening out in Reading.

Maybe if the trains get busy they might reinstate the services during the summer.

Well said.

But off topic for here but related to another current debate, that magic phrase comes up again- REST DAY WORKING. And what happens if you do a RDW on a Saturday ? You feel rather inclined to go non available Sunday, wouldn't you agree ?

It's good that people on here are being truthful and honest. I would like the train cooperating companies to explain this to the travelling public. Educate them. Not everyone reads this forum. Obviously there loss if they don't read it!

 

[berneyarms]

The service reductions from Gloucester-Worcester/Malvern are on Saturdays only and will last until December. The normal service operates Mon-Fri.

Thanks for correcting me and clarifying - I misread the earlier post.

 

[father_jack]

Depends what the connections are like between a northbound Cardiff - Nottingham to a Worcester bound GWR service if that option is viable.

Who wants to spend say 45 minutes at Worcestershire Parkway?

Indeed, some of the connections at Worcester Parkway to get to Worcester in previous timetables were over an hour or meant going to Pershore to come back through non stop !!!

 

[HamworthyGoods]

I think you need to remember that it really IS ‘Covid Covid Covid’ - just because Boris has eased the travel restrictions as case numbers have come down doesn’t mean that the massive backlogs in competency training, new starter training, retirement vacancies and actual losses due to staff sickness itself have magically gone away overnight. This is going to take months and months to recover from (and that’s praying that there won’t be a further major wave of illness.) Not overpromising the train service is entirely the right choice as far as I’m concerned, and given the low passenger loadings north of Cheltenham and the availability of connections to Worcester via WPW on the replacement XC services that will be maintaining the normal 2hrly frequency at Ashchurch - give GWR and XC credit for arranging that, it’s not always you see competing companies covering each other’s backs - it is logical to ensure the Stroud service is maintained rather than multiple ad-hoc cancellations on the day, which could still be the case if the remaining IET workings are not possible to cover.

(It’s easier to reinstate train services later in the year if projections proved too pessimistic than to advertise services that then require taking out later if you’ve oversold yourself. The paths are all there in the timetable ready to go if needed.)

I presume where possible some of the connections at Worcestershire Parkway have been tweaked, if so quite a reasonable alternative plan in quite difficult circumstances.

 

[Bread & cheese]

Perhaps they don't want you to have an evening out in Reading.

An evening out in Wokingham is a problem now if you live in somewhere like Sandhurst.
The last train back from Wokingham on Fridays and Saturdays is very early. In the May timetable, 2143 Fridays, 2142 Saturdays.
There is a later train from Reading to Sandhurst, but on Fridays and Saturdays it passes through Wokingham non-stop. This unusual piece of timetabling has been going on for many years - since the 80s or 90s? - and was originally intended to prevent trouble with rival local youths. There is no obvious need for it now, and yet it persists.

 

[70014IronDuke]

This makes me laugh (but in a pained way) see my earlier comment. 50 minutes isn’t a gap, try the Saturday service between the neighbouring counties of Gloucestershire and Worcestershire with 4 hour gaps. Now that’s a gap!

Exactly my sentiments on reading of this lamentable 'gap'.

 

[baza585]

more cancellations on Sunday and Monday although the plan for today looks different with every other Salisbury cancelled reducing Overton, Whitchurch and Grateley to two hourly.

Barbecue weather.........

Completely incomprehensible to the travelling public. Bus companies manage to run normal Sunday services and RRBs on top, yet the rail industry fails miserably year after year. You really couldn't make it up.

Awaits incoming from the usual suspects........

 

[HamworthyGoods]

Barbecue weather.........

Completely incomprehensible to the travelling public. Bus companies manage to run normal Sunday services and RRBs on top, yet the rail industry fails miserably year after year. You really couldn't make it up.

Awaits incoming from the usual suspects........

To be fair the training for a bus driver is somewhat different to that of a train or plane driver for example.

Yes the industry fails, yes the industry has been trying to close the vacancy gap, yes Covid has now forced that gap wide open again due to pausing of training.

As for decent weather, it’s not today but you can’t force people to work overtime and sadly at the present time the railway still relies heavily on that.

 

[baza585]

To be fair the training for a bus driver is somewhat different to that of a train or plane driver for example.

Yes the industry fails, yes the industry has been trying to close the vacancy gap, yes Covid has now forced that gap wide open again due to pausing of training.

As for decent weather, it’s not today but you can’t force people to work overtime and sadly at the present time the railway still relies heavily on that.

Agree Covid is part of the current problem but this has been going on for many years in some TOCs.

Bus companies also rely heavily on overtime, but don't pay as much, so drivers need the overtime more. Sad but true.

 

[pompeyfan]

Barbecue weather.........

Completely incomprehensible to the travelling public. Bus companies manage to run normal Sunday services and RRBs on top, yet the rail industry fails miserably year after year. You really couldn't make it up.

Awaits incoming from the usual suspects........

also SWRs weekend service is actually more intense than the current weekday service.

it would also appear some ASLEF regions are a bit more relaxed in regards to cab sharing and training which is why some TOCs are slightly closer to normality than others

 

[PHILIPE]

Is this all weekends or just from the May 2021 Timetable ?

 

[Goldfish62]

An evening out in Wokingham is a problem now if you live in somewhere like Sandhurst.
The last train back from Wokingham on Fridays and Saturdays is very early. In the May timetable, 2143 Fridays, 2142 Saturdays.
There is a later train from Reading to Sandhurst, but on Fridays and Saturdays it passes through Wokingham non-stop. This unusual piece of timetabling has been going on for many years - since the 80s or 90s? - and was originally intended to prevent trouble with rival local youths. There is no obvious need for it now, and yet it persists.

Yes, the local youth problem was dealt with very effectively a good few years ago. Perhaps it's the case that no one in the planning department is aware of the reason for the sparse service and just assume that it's always been like that, hence no reason to change it!

The 2352 MF to Ascot is being reinstated from May, so that's something.

 

[FenMan]

Perhaps they don't want you to have an evening out in Reading.

The main issue is not evenings out in Reading, but the loss of connections with early evening departures from Bristol, the South West, Birmingham etc, plus local connections with services from Paddington, Newbury, Oxford, Slough and so on.

 

[Goldfish62]

And the railway is desperate to provide the train service for this purpose but sadly we just can’t quite achieve that yet, Covid has exacerbated traincrew shortages to chronic levels.

You only have to look at the disruption around Salisbury today to show you can plan something that is a reduced service on normal levels and it’s still not possible to achieve.

It's awful timing for the railways. Just at the very time they need to be going all-out to attract back passengers they're in no position to do so. In contrast, many bus operators, which by their nature are much more flexible, are going all-out during the summer in trying to get back lost passengers through heavy promotion and new tourist-orientated services.

As I understand it the DfT/Treasury are waiting to see if the railways can attract back significant numbers of passengers before imposing massive cuts to the network. I really hope they let the railways get back to being able to run at their full potential before enacting any of this, but I fear they won't.

 

[387star]

To answer a question from upthread, its correct that the GWR Saturday afternoon service to/from Brighton has been culled, along with several other ‘local’ services between Westbury and Southampton. Selected Cardiff-Portsmouth (and v.v.) services call at Dilton Marsh in lieu.

Similarly on Saturdays a couple of round trips Bristol to/from Worcester and Great Malvern have been cut back to Gloucester. Selected XC services call at Ashchurch to avoid creating 4h gaps.

This is all to reduce the pressure on traincrew depots to make the plan reliably deliverable on Saturdays and ensure there is sufficient voluntary resource to run an acceptable Sunday service as well.

Very silly decision given weekends are expected to be busy

 

[Table 52]

You make a very good point about New st. Since its downgrade....sorry I mean "upgrade" it truly is an awkward place to change trains at, especially for the occasional traveller. Direct services from the south west to North west would be really good, not just Bristol to Manc, but how's about Plymouth to Manchester or Liverpool? I just feel XC was so much more useful when the destinations where more varied rather than the strict clock face pattern of destinations.

Operation Princess anyone?

 

[dk1]

Operation Princess anyone?

Always made me chuckle when Virgin where bringing in the VHF timetable & wanted to get it right & “not do a terminal 5”. They where quickly picked up & advised to “not do an operation princess” instead. Very good.

 

[Steve Harris]

As for decent weather, it’s not today but you can’t force people to work overtime and sadly at the present time the railway still relies heavily on that.

It's funny you mention that, When I started my first job (1990's and non railway I will admit) written in my contract was "you will be expected to do a reasonable amount of overtime if asked" !!

When I enquired about this to the union Rep he said it was something like a couple of hours !!
No good for the railways I will admit, but it does show that overtime can be written into a contract (thereby forcing employees to do it) providing the unions agree what is deemed suitable.

Note : I'm talking generally here, and pre Covid. Of course Covid has created many problems which will take a long time to resolve.

 

[Wilts Wanderer]

Very silly decision given weekends are expected to be busy

You’d prefer on the day cancellations when the advertised service can’t be operated? This isn’t somebody’s finger in the air decision, there has been a lot of calculation and rational decision making about what is and isn’t possible.

 

[bramling]

It's funny you mention that, When I started my first job (1990's and non railway I will admit) written in my contract was "you will be expected to do a reasonable amount of overtime if asked" !!

When I enquired about this to the union Rep he said it was something like a couple of hours !!
No good for the railways I will admit, but it does show that overtime can be written into a contract (thereby forcing employees to do it) providing the unions agree what is deemed suitable.

Note : I'm talking generally here, and pre Covid. Of course Covid has created many problems which will take a long time to resolve.

This is an interesting one, as it’s not unheard of to have stuff in contracts such as “occasionally you may be required to work overtime”.

My place is an interesting one, as there’s the usual batch of overtime sharks, whilst meanwhile the much smaller number of “I don’t do overtime” people sit back with popcorn in hand and watch the squabbles!

The difficulty with relying on overtime is that eventually there’s going to come a time when the former group can’t do the required overtime for whatever reason, which then means the duty can’t be covered. There is little point in timetabling services if the resources simply aren’t there to run them, and unfortunately we’re going to see this for some time thanks to Covid.

 

[HamworthyGoods]

Very silly decision given weekends are expected to be busy

What a strange statement!

Many people have explained on this thread why the railway simply doesn’t have the available traincrew resource to operate the pre-Covid service, it’s not ideal but I’m sure it hasn’t been done just for laughs but instead to try and offer something realistic instead of over promising and under delivering.

The weekend just gone has experienced traincrew shortages on some parts of the GB network.

 

[Steve Harris]

This is an interesting one, as it’s not unheard of to have stuff in contracts such as “occasionally you may be required to work overtime”.

My place is an interesting one, as there’s the usual batch of overtime sharks, whilst meanwhile the much smaller number of “I don’t do overtime” people sit back with popcorn in hand and watch the squabbles!

The difficulty with relying on overtime is that eventually there’s going to come a time when the former group can’t do the required overtime for whatever reason, which then means the duty can’t be covered. There is little point in timetabling services if the resources simply aren’t there to run them, and unfortunately we’re going to see this for some time thanks to Covid.

Oh I totally agree @bramling. Having massive amounts of overtime in the first place is never a good thing and tbh shows bad managment/resoucing/planning. It does help you get out of a short term jam though. All pre Covid of course. But adding Covid into the mix, as you say, makes it unsustainable.

 

[TEW]

It's funny you mention that, When I started my first job (1990's and non railway I will admit) written in my contract was "you will be expected to do a reasonable amount of overtime if asked" !!

When I enquired about this to the union Rep he said it was something like a couple of hours !!
No good for the railways I will admit, but it does show that overtime can be written into a contract (thereby forcing employees to do it) providing the unions agree what is deemed suitable.

Note : I'm talking generally here, and pre Covid. Of course Covid has created many problems which will take a long time to resolve.

Train crew are obliged to work some overtime as part of their contracts, although this is in the form of additional hours on days they are already scheduled to work rather than being required to work additional days generally. The exception may be Sundays for some crew. I think there are some crew for whom Sundays are overtime but they still have some requirement to work them.

 

[HamworthyGoods]

Train crew are obliged to work some overtime as part of their contracts, although this is in the form of additional hours on days they are already scheduled to work rather than being required to work additional days generally. The exception may be Sundays for some crew. I think there are some crew for whom Sundays are overtime but they still have some requirement to work them.

This is generally to do with enforced overtime when a train is running late and so they will be late booking off as you say rather than being forced to work extra days.

 

[pompeyfan]

This is generally to do with enforced overtime when a train is running late and so they will be late booking off as you say rather than being forced to work extra days.

also worth mentioning that if you were rostered an 8 hour job which was cancelled due to engineering works but allocated a new special turn of 10 hours you’d have to do the whole 10 hours but gain two hours overtime. That 8 hour turn could also turn into a 6 hour turn with PNB on the end though.