May 2021 Timetable Change

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dk1

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also worth mentioning that if you were rostered an 8 hour job which was cancelled due to engineering works but allocated a new special turn of 10 hours you’d have to do the whole 10 hours but gain two hours overtime. That 8 hour turn could also turn into a 6 hour turn with PNB on the end though.
And if it’s the latter it’s written off. Swings & roundabouts with rostering.
 
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Watershed

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And if it’s the latter it’s written off. Swings & roundabouts with rostering.
Not exactly given it's heads you lose, tails we win (from a traincrew perspective). Now annualised hours, that would be swings & roundabouts, but it wouldn't be a very popular change...
 

dk1

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Not exactly given it's heads you lose, tails we win (from a traincrew perspective). Now annualised hours, that would be swings & roundabouts, but it wouldn't be a very popular change...
I think I’ll stick with it lol. Mind you we all still moan like hell if we pick up a longer job even though getting paid for every minute.
 

Tomnick

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also worth mentioning that if you were rostered an 8 hour job which was cancelled due to engineering works but allocated a new special turn of 10 hours you’d have to do the whole 10 hours but gain two hours overtime. That 8 hour turn could also turn into a 6 hour turn with PNB on the end though.
Depends on the Ts&Cs at each company. Ours can have your booked job extended by up an hour for engineering work, but if your booked job is cancelled and you revert to spare, you can't go over your original rostered hours except by mutual agreement. No PNBs at the very end of jobs allowed either!
 

reytomas1228

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Hello everyone, I have a quick question regarding the state of the GWR Didcot-Oxford services calling at Culham station after the timetable change. According to RealTimeTrains and GWR website, the service at Culham compared to pre-covid times will actually improve, from 29 to 33 trains a day and getting close to an hourly service most of the day. The biggest change is the lack of extended service to Reading at peak times, as the route becomes more self-contained. However, RTT also shows 9 additional "unadvertised" services. All of these services include Reading as a destination, and 6 of them are just extensions of the existing service, with the same IDs (i.e. 2L15). The remaining 3 services are additional services that would plug up gaps in the timetable. Does anyone know what this means from a practical perspective? I know that this route is a recurring problem for GWR given the electrification debacle and that it will also not get 769s (making Reading extensions less justified), but does this suggest that GWR is considering these additional extensions and routes throughout the timetable period depending on passenger numbers?

 

Watershed

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Hello everyone, I have a quick question regarding the state of the GWR Didcot-Oxford services calling at Culham station after the timetable change. According to RealTimeTrains and GWR website, the service at Culham compared to pre-covid times will actually improve, from 29 to 33 trains a day and getting close to an hourly service most of the day. The biggest change is the lack of extended service to Reading at peak times, as the route becomes more self-contained. However, RTT also shows 9 additional "unadvertised" services. All of these services include Reading as a destination, and 6 of them are just extensions of the existing service, with the same IDs (i.e. 2L15). The remaining 3 services are additional services that would plug up gaps in the timetable. Does anyone know what this means from a practical perspective? I know that this route is a recurring problem for GWR given the electrification debacle and that it will also not get 769s (making Reading extensions less justified), but does this suggest that GWR is considering these additional extensions and routes throughout the timetable period depending on passenger numbers?

It basically just gives them the flexibility to operate those additionals should they be in a position where they want to, and can, do so.

It 'reserves' the path, preventing other trains (i.e. freight) from taking the path, which could otherwise hinder a resumption of pre-Covid timings.
 

reytomas1228

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Thanks for the response, this is certainly good news! It is very promising to see that even with the bleak current situation, service improvements are still happening, even if some are less certain than others.
 

Mag_seven

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Can I remind everyone that this thread is for the discussion of the May 21 TT change.

If anyone wants to discuss anything else then please start a new thread.

thanks :)
 

Tomp94

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It seems that GTR (Southern) have scrapped some of their Littlehampton to Victoria services in the mornings, eg departing Littlehampton at only 13 past each hour instead of the usual 13 and 43. Having done a few trips from Worthing to Littlehampton recently, it seems they're also not all running as 8 carriages, some are running as 12 and staying in Littlehampton for a long time, instead of going straight back up to London.
 

172101

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What is the reason for one odd EMR train from STP to LDS is it to keep route knowledge of something else?
1F56 1632 STP LDS returning to Derby.
 

swt_passenger

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What is the reason for one odd EMR train from STP to LDS is it to keep route knowledge of something else?
1F56 1632 STP LDS returning to Derby.
It seems to be the last vestige of the recent Leeds service. It’s not in the franchise spec, and appears to be run solely for commercial reasons. I don’t think it’s actually needed for route knowledge, once there are intended to be no HST’s in service there would no longer be much of a need to go to Leeds.
 

DDB

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What is the reason for one odd EMR train from STP to LDS is it to keep route knowledge of something else?
1F56 1632 STP LDS returning to Derby.
I'm sure I read somewhere authoritive but annoyingly can't now find it, that that single Sheffield-Leeds or maybe it was the Derby-Leeds leg was being retained/introduced as there was a specific lack of passanger capacity at that particualar time on a weekday that this was solving. I think the return to Derby is just an in service ECS move back to the depot.
Does anyone know if the other operators (Cross Country? Northern? ) were particularly overcrowded pre-pandemic around that time on a weekday?

Intrestingly they are retaining and possibly expanding the running to York at the weekend. Could be aimed at the leisure passanger market who could change at York onto LNER services and not have to deal with overcrowded cross county services as well as providing a good option for a alternative route when Kings Cross etc is closed at the weekend.
 

Bishopstone

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It seems that GTR (Southern) have scrapped some of their Littlehampton to Victoria services in the mornings, eg departing Littlehampton at only 13 past each hour instead of the usual 13 and 43. Having done a few trips from Worthing to Littlehampton recently, it seems they're also not all running as 8 carriages, some are running as 12 and staying in Littlehampton for a long time, instead of going straight back up to London.

Likewise, Eastbourne to Victoria reduces to hourly after the morning peak, stepping-up back to half-hourly around 13.30. But only M-F: on Saturday it’s 2tph throughout.

The Seaford branch is 2tph throughout the day, except for a curious ‘missing train’ around 11.00 that leaves an hour gap in service. Again, there is no such gap in the Saturday service.
 

_toommm_

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I'm sure I read somewhere authoritive but annoyingly can't now find it, that that single Sheffield-Leeds or maybe it was the Derby-Leeds leg was being retained/introduced as there was a specific lack of passanger capacity at that particualar time on a weekday that this was solving. I think the return to Derby is just an in service ECS move back to the depot.
Does anyone know if the other operators (Cross Country? Northern? ) were particularly overcrowded pre-pandemic around that time on a weekday?

Intrestingly they are retaining and possibly expanding the running to York at the weekend. Could be aimed at the leisure passanger market who could change at York onto LNER services and not have to deal with overcrowded cross county services as well as providing a good option for a alternative route when Kings Cross etc is closed at the weekend.
Im sure they’re retaining one Leeds run, which will then go back in service to Derby.

Operationally, they’re probably only keeping the Leeds run currently for the HSTs to go to Neville Hill.

Currently, the 05:19 is the first fast service to Sheffield from Leeds. The services in the evening are one of the last fast services to Leeds. I believe there used to be a 23:xx CrossCountry but that’s not running at the minute.
 

43055

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Im sure they’re retaining one Leeds run, which will then go back in service to Derby.

Operationally, they’re probably only keeping the Leeds run currently for the HSTs to go to Neville Hill.

Currently, the 05:19 is the first fast service to Sheffield from Leeds. The services in the evening are one of the last fast services to Leeds. I believe there used to be a 23:xx CrossCountry but that’s not running at the minute.
The last Leeds Cross Country from Sheffield is currently 22:2x on Monday to Saturday but is 23:2x on Sundays. Summer Saturdays would also have a 23:xx to Leeds being the return working of the Penznace HST.
 

Llandudno

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I'm sure I read somewhere authoritive but annoyingly can't now find it, that that single Sheffield-Leeds or maybe it was the Derby-Leeds leg was being retained/introduced as there was a specific lack of passanger capacity at that particualar time on a weekday that this was solving. I think the return to Derby is just an in service ECS move back to the depot.
Does anyone know if the other operators (Cross Country? Northern? ) were particularly overcrowded pre-pandemic around that time on a weekday?

Intrestingly they are retaining and possibly expanding the running to York at the weekend. Could be aimed at the leisure passanger market who could change at York onto LNER services and not have to deal with overcrowded cross county services as well as providing a good option for a alternative route when Kings Cross etc is closed at the weekend.
Probably aimed at the leisure market for visiting York itself!
 

DDB

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Im sure they’re retaining one Leeds run, which will then go back in service to Derby.

Operationally, they’re probably only keeping the Leeds run currently for the HSTs to go to Neville Hill.

Currently, the 05:19 is the first fast service to Sheffield from Leeds. The services in the evening are one of the last fast services to Leeds. I believe there used to be a 23:xx CrossCountry but that’s not running at the minute.
The current Leeds run and those in the recent past were clearly for getting them to and from Leeds depot as they were from Leeds very early in the morning and to Leeds very late at night with nothing extending to Leeds in between.
The new Leeds service is in the afternoon peak or shoulder peak depending where in its journey you look so it is after a specific market somewhere rather than an ECS move run in public service.
 

infobleep

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also SWRs weekend service is actually more intense than the current weekday service.

it would also appear some ASLEF regions are a bit more relaxed in regards to cab sharing and training which is why some TOCs are slightly closer to normality than others
I read the other day they are running 80% of their pre-covid-19 timetable. I take it, it will be broadly similar post-May change, in percentage terms at least.
 
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Wilts Wanderer

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The last Leeds Cross Country from Sheffield is currently 22:2x on Monday to Saturday but is 23:2x on Sundays. Summer Saturdays would also have a 23:xx to Leeds being the return working of the Penznace HST.

I don’t think the Penzance HST is running this year, XC are not making any seasonal uplifts to their timetables?
 

dk1

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I don’t think the Penzance HST is running this year, XC are not making any seasonal uplifts to their timetables?
Which seems extremely odd in itself. I am really finding XC to be an indifferent operator. Almost anti anything to encourage custom.
 

Wilts Wanderer

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Which seems extremely odd in itself. I am really finding XC to be an indifferent operator. Almost anti anything to encourage custom.

They’re in a difficult spot as they’re running double sets on half-frequency timetables in order to maintain adequate social distancing for the projected leisure loadings, so there is no rolling stock available to run extra trains to Paignton / Penzance / Newquay. To be honest, the GWR service is pretty good with the half-hourly Cornish Mainline timetable and extra Bristol-Plymouth-Penzance services so it’s not the problem it would have been a few years ago.

That being said, I do think there will be overloading on GWR services between Bristol and Exeter in hours there isn’t a Plymouth service. Short of hiring in stock (what / from where?) there isn’t much to be done.

That also being said, with Bristol TM being shut for much of the high summer due to the Bristol East Junction remodelling, it’s going to be a big mess anyway!
 

Peterthegreat

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They’re in a difficult spot as they’re running double sets on half-frequency timetables in order to maintain adequate social distancing for the projected leisure loadings, so there is no rolling stock available to run extra trains to Paignton / Penzance / Newquay. To be honest, the GWR service is pretty good with the half-hourly Cornish Mainline timetable and extra Bristol-Plymouth-Penzance services so it’s not the problem it would have been a few years ago.

That being said, I do think there will be overloading on GWR services between Bristol and Exeter in hours there isn’t a Plymouth service. Short of hiring in stock (what / from where?) there isn’t much to be done.

That also being said, with Bristol TM being shut for much of the high summer due to the Bristol East Junction remodelling, it’s going to be a big mess anyway!
Surely running single sets at twice the frequency provides exactly the same capacity?
 

Ianno87

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More, in theory - halving the frequency is a fairly effective way of making travel less attractive.

For short distance journeys yes. For longer distance journeys frequency is of lower importance.

However for alot of shorter distance flows on XC, frequency is made up for by other operators' services.
 

dk1

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I feel sorry for the XC passengers on the Peterborough- Leicester - Birmingham route who have no other operator on which is a local/inter-urban service for the intermediate stations. Again it’s odd that staffing is cited as an issue still when other TOCs have no problems at all with some awash with spare traincrew & roaring ahead with training.
 

Watershed

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I feel sorry for the XC passengers on the Peterborough- Leicester - Birmingham route who have no other operator on which is a local/inter-urban service for the intermediate stations. Again it’s odd that staffing is cited as an issue still when other TOCs have no problems at all with some awash with spare traincrew & roaring ahead with training.
XC's regional network is currently slated to return to the pre-Covid timetable in May. Of course they could still reduce the service nearer the time.

There is indeed an extraordinary disparity between TOCs in their level of service, which can't really be explained by "demand" or "train crew outbreaks".

In truth I think this situation is exposing and entrenching the underlying position that TOCs were in pre-Covid.
 

Bald Rick

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I feel sorry for the XC passengers on the Peterborough- Leicester - Birmingham route who have no other operator on which is a local/inter-urban service for the intermediate stations. Again it’s odd that staffing is cited as an issue still when other TOCs have no problems at all with some awash with spare traincrew & roaring ahead with training.

That’s back to full service in May - with the longer trains too.
 
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