MCards and London Underground on Split-Ticket Journeys

[Smylers]

When using multiple tickets for a journey, does using an MCard and contactless payment on the Underground to cross London still count as a single ‘journey’? Specifically from the point of view of missing a connection.

We're travelling London–Salisbury, on advertised trains for the entire journey, using an LNER Family Return for the Leeds–King's Cross bit, which obviously needs joining up at both ends.

For King's Cross–Salisbury, there are Advance tickets from Vauxhall, but not linking all the way from King's Cross; the cheapest London Underground Zone 1–Salisbury ticket is an Off-Peak Return, considerably more expensive. And there isn't a King's Cross–Vauxhall ticket (unsurprisingly, since this doesn't involve any travel on National Rail services).

We could cheaply cross London on the Underground using contactless card payment, enabling us to use the Advance from Vauxhall. Would this still count as a single journey — such that if the LNER service is late, we're allowed to use our Advance tickets on a later service?

And for Ilkley–Leeds, one adult is already covered by a monthly MCard (West Yorkshire transport smartcard), suggesting that only the other three of us need to buy Ilkley–Leeds tickets. But if that train were late and we miss the train at Leeds, would the MCard user still count as being on a single journey from Ilkley, or as turning up late for a journey starting from Leeds?

Basically, do we need to buy a seemingly unnecessary Ilkley–Leeds ticket for one adult, and to pay more to cross London, so as to ensure that our tickets remain valid in the case of earlier trains causing missed connections? Thanks.

 

[gray1404]

I too would be interested to know the current advise on this. I had seen it said a couple of years back that passengers having split tickets to and from London Terminals and using Contactless or Oyster in between could be seen as not having through tickets already. The advise at the time was that one of the tickets should be to/from London Zone 1 so that a combination of tickets covering the entire journey is held before starting the journey. I would be interested to see if this has changed. I do sincerely hope it has given the mass use of Contactless or Oyster (if you have a railcard discount applied) on London Underground now - it really is the norm and it would be wrong to not have passengers protected when they are using a valid "token" to travel on LU.

Of course it goes without saying that minimum cross London transfer times need to be meet and any time restrictions adhered to.

 

[Smylers]

I had seen it said a couple of years back that passengers having split tickets to and from London Terminals and using Contactless or Oyster in between could be seen as not having through tickets already. The advise at the time was that one of the tickets should be to/from London Zone 1 so that a combination of tickets covering the entire journey is held before starting the journey.

That's a shame — I was hoping to hear the opposite!

The cheapest way of doing this I could see would be to get Zone 1–Clapham Junction singles, then the Advance from Clapham Junction to Salisbury (which turns out to be the same price as Vauxhall–Salisbury anyway).

Of course it goes without saying that minimum cross London transfer times need to be meet and any time restrictions adhered to.

I presume that if take the exact trains that I could've booked as a through Ilkley–Salisbury journey, then that counts, because the ticket site would've allowed enough time for that.

 

[gray1404]

It is annoying that there are not any London Underground Zone 1 to Salisbury Advance ticket available. However, it seems that you have found an alternative. The only issue is most of the services from Waterloo to Salisbury are "Pick Up Only" from Clapham Junction. This is a moot point as you are merely switching tickets there, the train stops at the station where you change from one ticket to another and you are not setting down. You will have a ticket that should open the barrier at London Waterloo and it is highly unlikely any ticket check will occur until after Clapham Junction under normal circumstances. It is just something to be aware of.

Personally, if a ticket check takes place some time after Clapham Junction I would only show the ticket for that part of the journey. Not that I am suggesting hiding anything but it just avoids any possible confusion. Of course, worst case is you show both tickets and it should be obvious you are changing from one ticket to another.

 

[Smylers]

it seems that you have found an alternative.

Yes, albeit one that costs more — and I'd rather not pay over double for crossing London unless we have to.

The only issue is most of the services from Waterloo to Salisbury are "Pick Up Only" from Clapham Junction.

The through journey is routed with a change at Clapham Junction anyway: catching the Tube King's Cross–Vauxhall, then South Western Vauxhall–Clapham Junction to pick up the service that departed from Waterloo. Possibly because King's Cross–Vauxhall has a direct Tube service, whereas King's Cross–Waterloo would require multiple Tube lines?†

Personally, if a ticket check takes place some time after Clapham Junction I would only show the ticket for that part of the journey.

Yep, I normally would do. I'm just concerned about the case where we miss a connection and need to justify why we're on a later train. In which case I'd need to show all the tickets, and they'd need to be something that counts as a single journey.

Regarding the MCard end, I've had another thought, but that's specific to the Family Return, so I'll put that in another thread, with an appropriate title.

† Though what you mention was a problem when the children were younger, we had a buggy, and we specifically routed via Waterloo for step-free access across London. The ticket required a specific train from Clapham Junction, but we could board that at Waterloo. We arrived at Waterloo and found what we thought was our train, heading to Salisbury, departing at what seemed to be the about the right time to be the train we needed to catch from Clapham Junction. But then I noticed it didn't call at Clapham Junction, so must be the wrong train.

Unable to find the correct train, we queued to ask somebody. Too late we discovered the train we'd first thought was our train, and it does indeed call at Clapham Junction — they just lie about this on the departure boards at Waterloo (to prevent people using it as a local service just to Clapham). So we then suffered a hour's wait, because the train we needed to catch was intentionally mislabelled, something which we hadn't been told when buying the ticket.

 

[Fawkes Cat]

Too late we discovered the train we'd first thought was our train, and it does indeed call at Clapham Junction — they just lie about this on the departure boards at Waterloo (to prevent people using it as a local service just to Clapham).

A brief tangent here (and there are separate threads to discuss this issue), but the railways don't lie about this: the boards at Waterloo show where a train can take you from Waterloo: the train in question is pick up only at Clapham Junction, so it can't take you from Waterloo to Clapham Junction, and so it is not shown on the boards.

 

[Smylers]

the railways don't lie about this: the boards at Waterloo show where a train can take you from Waterloo: the train in question is pick up only at Clapham Junction, so it can't take you from Waterloo to Clapham Junction, and so it is not shown on the boards.

A fair point.

But if passengers are going to be routed on journeys which require travelling via a specific station, there should be some information available enabling that: either the required information being shown somehow on displays at the station, or the customer being informed when buying their ticket that the train they need to board won't be shown as going to the station shown on their ticket.