Media Coverage of COVID -19

[birchesgreen]

There are some voices of dissent but you have to look for them. I think this crisis, a very technical and complicated one, is showing the flaws in our "highly educated" establishment and media.

Of course another fact is that there is general political consensus apart from the usual "go further / do it better" stuff. If a major political party was against it (one with MPs not fringe cranks) then i think you might get more contrary voices.

 

[Senex]

Whilst bias is not unusual for the tabloid media, it does seem that the BBC is showing a remarkably pro-government line. The political office often has a friendly relationship with the conservative party in usual times, but critique of government policy is at an all-time low. It's almost making me wonder if there are some behind the scenes "don't undermine the Government in a state of emergency" rules that we aren't party to.

Through the whole period of daily Downing Street briefings it was the BBC that got to ask the first question each day, and their questioning was remarkbly soft and unprobing all the way through—but then the same was true of pretty well all the other correspondents who appeared at those briefings. It did all look a bit like a nice little club of the politicians and the media political staff. I wonder if it was indeed a question of "don't undermine the Government in a state of emergency", with the mood being set each day by the BBC as state broadcaster.

 

[DB]

I don't know what the cause is, but I've commented on here before that the media (all of them - left, right, centrist - it makes no difference) are mostly putting an extremely negative slant on it and constantly hyping up the worst-case predictions ("second wave", etc), and following the government line on pretty much everything.

The Labour party are proving absolutely useless as an opposition, too.

 

[MikeWM]

I don't know what the cause is, but I've commented on here before that the media (all of them - left, right, centrist - it makes no difference) are mostly putting an extremely negative slant on it and constantly hyping up the worst-case predictions ("second wave", etc), and following the government line on pretty much everything.

The entire media in the UK are either hopeless or worse. It is very hard, for someone like me who would generally argue for the absolute necessity of strong independent media, to have to admit I think we'd be better off if it all disappeared overnight. Even things like Private Eye, which was largely very good until a few years ago, is pretty useless now.

The Labour party are proving absolutely useless as an opposition, too.

All the parties are

 

[Bantamzen]

I wouldn't say there's anything unofficial, so much as much of the media have to date been unwilling to take an alternative stance to the "Stay home! Don't Murder People! You are breaking the NHS!" official line. However I do note that in recent days some of the more right leaning media are starting to get restless, and starting to sound ever so slightly critical of one or more of the restrictions. Personally I'm surprised its taken this long, but the cracks are starting to show.

 

[NorthOxonian]

I wouldn't say there's anything unofficial, so much as much of the media have to date been unwilling to take an alternative stance to the "Stay home! Don't Murder People! You are breaking the NHS!" official line. However I do note that in recent days some of the more right leaning media are starting to get restless, and starting to sound ever so slightly critical of one or more of the restrictions. Personally I'm surprised its taken this long, but the cracks are starting to show.

This applies in political spheres too. Several right leaning politicians, such as John Redwood, are starting to right articles decrying the current strategy and asking for a change of tack. I do hope these sentiments continue to grow - at the moment the only opposition to a lot of our current measures comes from a crowd I'm very uncomfortable with (the hardline anti-vaxxer and conspiracy theorist end of the spectrum). Having more moderate voices opposing the current consensus is crucial if we want to see the situation change.

 

[Justin Smith]

Oh, I just love a good conspiracy theory thread...

I'm not saying it's a conspiracy, if it's happening it's "unofficial". Using the example I gave of the forums which saw fit to remove posts which were factually true, and certainly more accurate than some of the hysterical stuff you read on them "I'm frightened my child might die of Covid" etc which gets left on. Even I would not think the govt had contacted all forums and told them what to do. Well probably not.....

 

[Bletchleyite]

This applies in political spheres too. Several right leaning politicians, such as John Redwood, are starting to right articles decrying the current strategy and asking for a change of tack. I do hope these sentiments continue to grow - at the moment the only opposition to a lot of our current measures comes from a crowd I'm very uncomfortable with (the hardline anti-vaxxer and conspiracy theorist end of the spectrum). Having more moderate voices opposing the current consensus is crucial if we want to see the situation change.

Most moderates don't want it to change, and think that, unless and until we get evidence that a vaccine will be impossible, the strategy of keeping it suppressed pending a vaccine is a sensible course of action.

If you wanted me, as a political moderate, to change tack, it would be to elimination and border closure on the New Zealand model.

 

[DB]

Most moderates don't want it to change, and think that, unless and until we get evidence that a vaccine will be impossible, the strategy of keeping it suppressed pending a vaccine is a sensible course of action.

If you wanted me, as a political moderate, to change tack, it would be to elimination and border closure on the New Zealand model.

So assuming there is a vaccine in, say, October. How long do you think it would take to wipe out the virus worldwide? Bearing in mind that Smallpox took nearly 200 years. Yes, it'll be faster, but how long do you think? Months, years, decades?

New Zealand won't be able to keep that stance for more than six months to a year - it's far too dependent on international tourism.

 

[adc82140]

This applies in political spheres too. Several right leaning politicians, such as John Redwood, are starting to right articles decrying the current strategy and asking for a change of tack. I do hope these sentiments continue to grow - at the moment the only opposition to a lot of our current measures comes from a crowd I'm very uncomfortable with (the hardline anti-vaxxer and conspiracy theorist end of the spectrum). Having more moderate voices opposing the current consensus is crucial if we want to see the situation change.

If enough members of the Conservative party get restless, Boris will start fearing for his job. And and Trump-lite all he wants to do is be liked and get re elected. The Conservative party is more right wing now than it has been for years. This would normally cause me great concern, but it could work to advantage here.

 

[Bletchleyite]

So assuming there is a vaccine in, say, October. How long do you think it would take to wipe out the virus worldwide? Bearing in mind that Smallpox took nearly 200 years. Yes, it'll be faster, but how long do you think? Months, years, decades?

New Zealand won't be able to keep that stance for more than six months to a year - it's far too dependent on international tourism.

It doesn't matter for us (or NZ) whether it is wiped out in the world or not, simply in the UK. We can then, as the Yellow Fever countries do, mandate having had the vaccine to enter the UK.

 

[Justin Smith]

I don't know what the cause is, but I've commented on here before that the media (all of them - left, right, centrist - it makes no difference) are mostly putting an extremely negative slant on it and constantly hyping up the worst-case predictions ("second wave", etc), and following the government line on pretty much everything.

The Labour party are proving absolutely useless as an opposition, too.

I agree with that, but, if you think about it, they want to be seen as "the party with a conscience", so they are even more keen than the Tories are of being seen to back anything which keeps the death rate down. By the death rate I mean the present death rate from Covid, not the future death rate from poverty or lack of access to the NHS etc etc..... Those death don't count at the moment, nobody is bothered it seems.

 

[DB]

It doesn't matter for us (or NZ) whether it is wiped out in the world or not, simply in the UK. We can then, as the Yellow Fever countries do, mandate having had the vaccine to enter the UK.

Sorry, that's dodging the issue. It does matter that it's wiped out worldwide as closed borders is not a viable strategy other than in the short term.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Sorry, that's dodging the issue. It does matter that it's wiped out worldwide as closed borders is not a viable strategy other than in the short term.

Correct. Closed borders for maybe 6-12 months, then a mandatory vaccine to enter allows them to be reopened. Those not vaccinated could perhaps be subject to quarantine with testing instead.

 

[Justin Smith]

It doesn't matter for us (or NZ) whether it is wiped out in the world or not, simply in the UK. We can then, as the Yellow Fever countries do, mandate having had the vaccine to enter the UK.

I don't want to be cut off from the rest of the world for some indeterminate (possibly permanent) length of time, particularly for a virus which only kills 1 in 200 of those who actually catch it. Remember an unknown number of people (possibly even a majority) are not susceptible to it anyway, e.g. couples where one gets it and the other doesn't.
The world has gone mad, I really think all this is the biggest over reaction in the history of the world and history will vindicate my stance. Right from the beginning I'd have put the shoe on the other foot, protected and isolated the vulnerable (esp care homes and hospitals), and everyone else just get on with it, but, critically, all at ones own choice.
We'll see who is right.

 

[Horizon22]

I don't know what the cause is, but I've commented on here before that the media (all of them - left, right, centrist - it makes no difference) are mostly putting an extremely negative slant on it and constantly hyping up the worst-case predictions ("second wave")

Would rather prepare for the worst though no? Better people do that and are at least aware rather than being blase and underpaying like at the beginning. What could be described as a second wave is occurring in parts of Europe, so wouldn't call it just "hype".

 

[adc82140]

How do you propose every person crossing the border shows their immunity status? A study done for a no deal Brexit showed that even a 1 minute paperwork check on each truck coming in would gridlock Northern France. Add in the cars attempting to cross, in addition to airport arrivals, and the border has ground to a halt.

 

[MikeWM]

The world has gone mad, I really think all this is the biggest over reaction in the history of the world and history will vindicate my stance. Right from the beginning I'd have put the shoe on the other foot, protected and isolated the vulnerable (esp care homes and hospitals), and everyone else just get on with it, but, critically, all at ones own choice.

Yes to all of that.

 

[Bletchleyite]

How do you propose every person crossing the border shows their immunity status? A study done for a no deal Brexit showed that even a 1 minute paperwork check on each truck coming in would gridlock Northern France. Add in the cars attempting to cross, in addition to airport arrivals, and the border has ground to a halt.

A passport stamp would be a good way, then no additional check would be necessary beyond the checks already carried out.

Another way would be if we do an ESTA-a-like, which I think we should, evidence could be submitted then.

 

[adc82140]

I hereby copyright the film script for "The Year The World Went Mad". I think I could make a fortune.

 

[DB]

Would rather prepare for the worst though no? Better people do that and are at least aware rather than being blase and underpaying like at the beginning. What could be described as a second wave is occurring in parts of Europe, so wouldn't call it just "hype".

But so what if there is a 'second wave'? It's not going to go away, so the longer this drags on the worse damage it causes in every other area. Protect the nursing homes. Put processes in place so that those with particular medical conditions can stay at home if they wish, then just let everyone else get on with things as normal. Unless it's threatening to overwhelm the NHS (and there's been no sign of that so far) that's the most workable option.

 

[carlberry]

I hereby copyright the film script for "The Year The World Went Mad". I think I could make a fortune.

Not if the cinemas are still closed!

 

[Horizon22]

But so what if there is a 'second wave'? It's not going to go away, so the longer this drags on the worse damage it causes in every other area. Protect the nursing homes. Put processes in place so that those with particular medical conditions can stay at home if they wish, then just let everyone else get on with things as normal. Unless it's threatening to overwhelm the NHS (and there's been no sign of that so far) that's the most workable option.

So what? A large increase in excess deaths. That speaks for itself.

 

[MikeWM]

This applies in political spheres too. Several right leaning politicians, such as John Redwood, are starting to right articles decrying the current strategy and asking for a change of tack. I do hope these sentiments continue to grow - at the moment the only opposition to a lot of our current measures comes from a crowd I'm very uncomfortable with (the hardline anti-vaxxer and conspiracy theorist end of the spectrum).

It does sometimes feel like that, and it has often made me slightly uncomfortable too to find myself in opposition to most people I would normally agree with, and in agreement with many people I usually wouldn't.

However, as I've said elsewhere, the truth is the truth, wherever it comes from.

 

[adc82140]

So what? A large increase in excess deaths. That speaks for itself.

As with any new virus when it first appears. Contrary to what is being said, Covid-19 is not some sort of special mutant entity of a type previously unknown. It's a virus. So is HIV, and I distinctly remember being told in 1988 it would wipe us all out. That was proven to be hysteria, and it wasn't even remotely on the scale of this.

 

[MikeWM]

So what? A large increase in excess deaths. That speaks for itself.

That's what happens when a nasty virus goes around. Always has, always will. We've never had the incredible hubris before to pretend we can stop that.

 

[DB]

So what? A large increase in excess deaths. That speaks for itself.

How do you know there will be a large increase in excess deaths? Protect care homes (it's already been through half of them anyway), hospitals and provide options for others at risk to be able to stay at home, and that keeps it away (so far as is possible) from those partcularly susceptible. Then there is the immunity already built up or pre-existing in the population (nobody knows at what level).

A comparison with Sweden (lower death rate than UK) shows pretty strongly that the deaths are mostly going to occur among the demographics being protected, so there is no reason to assume that it would cause a high rate of excess deaths among the rest of the population.

And let's remember that flu (despite vaccines) kills a lot of people. The media don't headline the news with that every day for four and a half months!

 

[carlberry]

So assuming there is a vaccine in, say, October. How long do you think it would take to wipe out the virus worldwide? Bearing in mind that Smallpox took nearly 200 years. Yes, it'll be faster, but how long do you think? Months, years, decades?

New Zealand won't be able to keep that stance for more than six months to a year - it's far too dependent on international tourism.

If a vaccine is available then (once a significant number of the most at risk individuals are covered) the risk is the same as Flu and wiping it out can proceed (or not). The better (short term) outcome is a treatment that has a high success rate which (once available at scale) is an instant fix.

 

[Reliablebeam]

The Telegraph is probably the most mainstream outlet that has a critical line of thought towards the government, which is perhaps surprising given BoJo worked there, and Mrs Gove is one of their writers - or perhaps this isn't such a surprise??? Quite a number of their commentators are overtly anti-lockdown, and have been for some weeks. The readers comments below the line at the Torygraph are a rage fest - methinks they've not quite got the government they were expecting.... I have noticed a shift in the editorial line in the Sun and the Mail over the last few weeks. You will notice nowadays that anti-lockdown comments get the highest upvotes in that bastion of tolerance, the Daily Mail readers comments section.

I don't know if others think this, but it seems different factions within the cabinet leak 'idea of the week' to their favoured outlet (almost always the Torygraph, Sun or Times) either to test public opinion or to torpedo their rivals, witness the over 50s shielding thing....

 

[brad465]

If the Leveson Inquiry's first part findings had actually been implemented, would this have made any difference to this apparent reporting of the pandemic, where a new independent press body recognised in law would was recommended?