Media Coverage of COVID -19

[yorksrob]

Even so, hospitals have been told to start preparing to use them.

Well, that will be tricky, what with the International Food and Drink event taking place there in February.

I guess they won't have to worry about catering !

 

[brad465]

They're not even going for SAGE scientists now to get stories demanding tougher restrictions, now it's over to members of the Nervtag group:

Covid: UK surge in cases an 'extreme concern'

The NHS faces "unprecedented" pressure as the UK reports record numbers for a second day running.

www.bbc.co.uk

"Decisive" national action is needed to tackle the spread of Covid and prevent a "catastrophe" in the new year, a scientist advising the government says.

Prof Andrew Hayward suggested tougher measures than those already in place in England may be necessary to deal with rising numbers of infections.

England's tier restrictions are due to be reviewed on Wednesday.

Hospitals in England are currently treating more Covid patients than at the peak of the first wave in April.

NHS England's chief executive Simon Stevens said health workers were "back in the eye of the storm".

On Monday, a record 41,385 new Covid cases were reported in the UK, though it is thought the infection rate was higher during spring when testing was much more limited.

There were 20,426 people being treated for the virus in hospitals in England on Monday, which is higher than the previous peak of about 19,000 in April.

Health officials in Wales and Scotland have also said they are at risk of becoming overwhelmed.

The spread of a new coronavirus variant means the UK is "entering a very dangerous new phase of the pandemic", according to Prof Hayward, a member of the government's New and Emerging Respiratory Virus Threats Advisory Group (Nervtag).

He told BBC Radio 4's Today programme: "We're going to need decisive, early, national action to prevent a catastrophe in January and February."

I do think that the rate infections are going up means they'll come a point not too far away where they'll come down, even with no further restrictions, simply because an immunity "buffer" builds up, especially when put on top of those vaccinated.

 

[initiation]

But even on the economic front, Sweden has not performed well. Its gross domestic product (GDP) shrank by 8.3 percent in the three months to June 2020, compared with contractions of 5.1 percent for Norway, 4.5 percent for Finland and 6.8 percent for Denmark.

Why quote these misleading statistics?

Giving GDP figures for one quarter months before the article was written is not representative. Its the same as giving death stats for Jan-Mar 2020 and saying we did better than China.

The EU gives Swedish GDP declining 3.4% in 2020. For reference Finland is 4.3%, Denmark 3.9%, Netherlands 5.3%, France is 9.4%, Germany 5.6%, Spain 12.4%. All (significantly) higher as their restrictions have dragged on for many months.

Economic surveillance of EU economies

Macroeconomic and fiscal surveillance, economic forecast and financial assistance to EU Member States.

ec.europa.eu

One area where Sweden has done undeniably better is on civil liberties. People have been generally free to continue to do what they want, interact with family and friends etc..

I fear the UK (and the rest of the West) will never truly recover from this assault on our freedoms.

 

[philosopher]

Well that's just cosmic isn't it.

We have our Government and its advisors complaining about hospitals being overwhelmed, yet the Nightingale, which at the very least could be used to get some people requiring less intensive care out of the way, or provide somewhere for recovering patients to recuperate, instead of reinfecting their care homes, has been dismantled.

Certainly fills me with confidence.

The government has had six months to prepare the NHS for the second wave and yet they seem to have done very little for it. Surely in six months they could have trained final year medical students to treat Covid patients or requisitioned private hospitals to provide additional healthcare capacity.

Yet there are reports of hospitals running out of oxygen. From the Metro yesterday:

A hospital in south east London was forced to divert ambulances after fearing it could run low on oxygen due to rising coronavirus patients, according to reports. The Queen Elizabeth Hospital, in Woolwich, declared a ‘major incident’ on Sunday, the Independent said. Officials were reportedly worried oxygen flow could be disrupted and decided to divert ambulances to King’s College Hospital and St Thomas’ Hospital.


Read more: https://metro.co.uk/2020/12/28/lond...-oxygen-supply-shortage-13817224/?ito=cbshare

Maybe I am missing something here, but surely over the summer and early autumn there was a enough time to increase oxygen supplies at hospitals.

Whatever approach you are going to take to tackling Covid-19, surely increasing healthcare capacity as much as possible is the one thing that pretty much everyone would agree on.

 

[Laryk]

The government has had six months to prepare the NHS for the second wave and yet they seem to have done very little for it. Surely in six months they could have trained final year medical students to treat Covid patients or requisitioned private hospitals to provide additional healthcare capacity.

Yet there are reports of hospitals running out of oxygen. From the Metro yesterday:

Maybe I am missing something here, but surely over the summer and early autumn there was a enough time to increase oxygen supplies at hospitals.

Whatever approach you are going to take to tackling Covid-19, surely increasing healthcare capacity as much as possible is the one thing that pretty much everyone would agree on.

From what I understand of last time when this happened, it's not a case of the stored oxygen running low, but that of the volume of oxygen that the system can deliver at any one time. Essentially the piping of the hospitals cannot cope with the flow rate being demanded.

With your first point, this has already happened. It was reported in the first wave that medical students whose training was cancelled volunteered to help, and a cursory search shows that (in Wales at least) the call has already gone out.

But I agree that the government has failed to plan for the inevitable winter spike, new strain or not. They didn't learn lessons from the first wave and have acted too late yet again.

 

[Yew]

I'm glad we kept numbers down over the summer, and saved them for when hospitals are traditionally busy!

 

[Darandio]

Take a look at this video. The one in London cannot reopen

https://twitter.com/ticerichard/status/1341750522773159936?s=21

Yet NHS England have said it is still on standby.

Covid-19: London's NHS Nightingale 'on standby'

NHS England says the facility is available to help the capital's hospitals as Covid-19 cases rise.

www.bbc.co.uk

London's Nightingale hospital remains on standby, despite the removal of some of its equipment, NHS England has said.

England's hospitals are currently treating more Covid-19 patients than during the previous peak of the virus in April.
Some equipment, including beds and ventilators, are no longer at the ExCel Centre site, it is understood.
NHS England said the facility would be available to support the capital's hospitals if needed.
It sent a letter to trusts on 23 December asking them to plan for the use of additional facilities such as the Nightingale hospitals.
The ExCel Centre site, which opened on 3 April with space for 4,000 beds to treat Covid-19 patients, was placed on standby in May when fewer than 20 patients were being treated there.

A spokesperson for the NHS said: "The Nightingale in London remains on standby and will be available to support the capital's hospitals if needed.
"In the meantime it is vital that Londoners do everything possible to reduce transmission and cut the number of new infections which otherwise inevitably result in more avoidable deaths."

 

[Laryk]

I'm glad we kept numbers down over the summer, and saved them for when hospitals are traditionally busy!

Yes, it seems laughable that when the tiers clearly weren't working through the autumn to supress new infections that anyone thought that the tiers would work through December.

 

[Huntergreed]

From the Beeb this afternoon:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-55475240

Covid: UK faces 'catastrophe' without tougher action, warns scientist

"Decisive" national action is needed to tackle the spread of Covid and prevent a "catastrophe" in the new year, a scientist advising the government says.

Prof Andrew Hayward suggested tougher measures may be necessary to deal with rising numbers of infections.

Health Secretary Matt Hancock will announce any changes to England's tier restrictions on Wednesday.

Hospitals in England are currently treating more Covid patients than at the peak of the first wave in April.

NHS England's chief executive Simon Stevens said health workers were "back in the eye of the storm".

On Monday, a record 41,385 new Covid cases were reported in the UK, though it is thought the infection rate was higher during spring when testing was much more limited.

There were 20,426 people being treated for the virus in hospitals in England on Monday, which is higher than the previous peak of about 19,000 in April.

Health officials in Wales and Scotland have also said they are at risk of becoming overwhelmed.

What are the lockdown and tier four rules?
Concern at 'unprecedented' English infection level
New coronavirus variant: What do we know?
The spread of a new coronavirus variant means the UK is "entering a very dangerous new phase of the pandemic", according to Prof Hayward, a member of the government's New and Emerging Respiratory Virus Threats Advisory Group (Nervtag).

He told BBC Radio 4's Today programme: "We're going to need decisive, early, national action to prevent a catastrophe in January and February."

The "50% increase in transmissibility" of the new variant means that "the previous levels of restrictions that worked before won't work now, and so tier four restrictions are likely to be necessary - or even higher than that ", he added.

This is the first time I've seen 'tougher than tier 4' mentioned by the media, and no doubt it'll be everywhere soon, with tomorrow an announcement of tougher rules on the way.

 

[kez19]

From the Beeb this afternoon:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-55475240



This is the first time I've seen 'tougher than tier 4' mentioned by the media, and no doubt it'll be everywhere soon, with tomorrow an announcement of tougher rules on the way.

I wonder how these professors live with saying things like this? I guess they find it easy to joe public finding it hard.

They meant to have brains in sorting this but clearly their heads are in the sand but happy to lockdown constantly, I thought their jobs were more than scare the crap out of people, speak to media then ramp up more fear - can they care to give us a solution/exit?


Yet on the other why has the general media asked about an exit out of all this than ramping it up, isn’t that the purpose of the BBC/Sky/ITN (ITV/CH4/5) and STV?

 

[Bantamzen]

Yet NHS England have said it is still on standby.

Covid-19: London's NHS Nightingale 'on standby'

NHS England says the facility is available to help the capital's hospitals as Covid-19 cases rise.

www.bbc.co.uk

And yet the BBC are now reporting that tents could be used for overflows....

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-55473196

Yesterday, a health official warned that England's "very high" coronavirus infection level was a "growing concern" as the NHS continues to struggle to cope with rising patient numbers.

The number of people being treated for Covid-19 in hospital is now 20,426, which is higher than the previous peak of about 19,000 in April.

Now, a senior doctor has said that health staff are considering the idea of setting up tents outside hospitals to triage patients.

Emergency medicine consultant Simon Walsh, who is deputy chair of the British Medical Association's UK consultants committee, said such plans were normally reserved for dealing with major incidents such as terror attacks or major industrial disasters.

But he told the PA news agency that many trusts in London and south-east England were "effectively operating in a major incident mode", with crisis meetings, and staff asked to work on their days off.

He added: "They are dealing with queues of ambulances outside many emergency departments, often with patients sat in the ambulances for many hours until they can be offloaded into the department because there simply isn't any space to put them in."

Questions need to be asked of the government & NHS bosses, such as "What have you been doing for the last 9 months while we've been putting our lives on hold?".

I wonder how these professors live with saying things like this? I guess they find it easy to joe public finding it hard.

They meant to have brains in sorting this but clearly their heads are in the sand but happy to lockdown constantly, I thought their jobs were more than scare the crap out of people, speak to media then ramp up more fear - can they care to give us a solution/exit?


Yet on the other why has the general media asked about an exit out of all this than ramping it up, isn’t that the purpose of the BBC/Sky/ITN (ITV/CH4/5) and STV?

I am seriously starting to wonder what brief groups like SAGE actually have. As demonstrated above there seems to have been little effort to prepare for the current spike despite these advisors & ministers constantly offering grim predictions ever since the pandemic broke out. I can't shake the feelings that the blame game they have been playing ever since is just a verbal bunker for them to hide their mistakes in.

 

[kez19]

And yet the BBC are now reporting that tents could be used for overflows....

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-55473196

Questions need to be asked of the government & NHS bosses, such as "What have you been doing for the last 9 months while we've been putting our lives on hold?".


I am seriously starting to wonder what brief groups like SAGE actually have. As demonstrated above there seems to have been little effort to prepare for the current spike despite these advisors & ministers constantly offering grim predictions ever since the pandemic broke out. I can't shake the feelings that the blame game they have been playing ever since is just a verbal bunker for them to hide their mistakes in.

For me I just wonder why they constantly ponder doom, if they are advising all the governments within the UK (UK itself), then by all means tell us how we get out can we not get a projectile on that for once?

Or the other way to look at them is they set goalposts (not what they hoped for), move it again, then again etc, I hope they do remember that motto of Fool me once...

 

[7 Ingleborough]

Bristol Nightingale hospital in in use. It has allowed the Bristol Dental and Eye hospitals to be freed up as ICU units since they have piped supplies of oxygen throughout as well as being close to the Bristol Royal Infirmary where ICU trained staff are based giving a nucleus of expertise in one central location. The Nightingales offer a lot of space and beds, but staffing is a problem.
As to 'what have they all been doing', well a lot of the staff have got covid themselves this time around because they have caught it from their children. During the first wave, schools were largely shut. SAGE advise, that is all. Moan all you like, but the main problem has been ministers pandering to populism and then having to backtrack. Every time SAGE minutes have been published, Doris and his gang have been caught out ignoring parts of the advice given.
It was obvious from the day the PM promised it that the 5 days of Christmas was rash, especially given the experience in the USA with Thanksgiving and the fact hospital admissions with covid in the SE of England were rocketing at the time he announced it.
The exit strategy has been announced repeatedly, the latest time was this morning when the head of the NHS in England said the virus spread was to be contained until sufficient people had been vaccinated. ICUs are full, parts of the NHS are at breaking point and if anybody doubts that go along as a volunteer porter to the Bristol Royal Infirmary and all the ambulances, including St. Johns, parked up in rows with staff treating the patients inside as they cannot be unloaded. We have about 25% of our staff off either with it or isolating, and this part of the business is lower risk. So I can easily see the NHS is in a similar position. Not least because unlike the first time round, schools are largely open and infections find their way back home.
Staff have to wear full PPE (at least they have it now!) and change it between patients, and that in itself is exhausting. Tier 5 is coming because the infection rates are not dropping fast enough, and you can blame the weak leadership, the constant changes of message all you like, but not the staff trying to tackle this, or those advising what actions to take because when it comes to it, the only way to stop infecting people is to stop virus laden droplets passing from one person to another. While there are groups that are more at risk than others on a statistical basis, this is biology, and nobody is safe from it, even people who had mild symptoms are now finding issues emerging that will be keeping our NHS busy for a long time to come.
On todays local update we have been told that researchers are looking to combine covid vaccines from different manufacturers to see if an improved response can be gained, also the viability of combining it with flu vaccines in future as an annual injection.

 

[sjpowermac]

Questions need to be asked of the government & NHS bosses, such as "What have you been doing for the last 9 months while we've been putting our lives on hold?".

Perhaps they have spent too much time reading these threads and were lulled into a false sense of security?

Many have been analysing the data carefully and reassuring that either there wouldn’t be a second wave or that even if there were then there really wasn’t anything to worry about.

Covid : Infection rates v death rates and a possible second wave

Can you categorically tell me why it is different this time? Otherwise I would tend to stay on the cautious side until you can, or we are sure it will stay different if cases keep rocketing. Have you got figures for southern US ? I read that there was a precedent there for the rise in young...

www.railforums.co.uk

Here you opined:

Mortality rates follow a similar track to cases around 3-5 weeks after cases during March - April, but when cases start to increase in June - July there is no similar increase in deaths even more than 5 weeks subsequently.

in this thread:

Covid : Infection rates v death rates and a possible second wave

I've said all along there will be no "second wave" (as defined by as spike in the death rate more or less as high as the first) in any similar country to the UK with a death rate above (pref well above) 500 per million. Note I am not saying there will not be bumps and dips in the graph curves...

www.railforums.co.uk

At the time on the threads there seemed to be a lot of support for this view, along with London having achieved ‘herd immunity’.

On a more serious note, perhaps as others have suggested, finding lots of extra trained medical staff isn’t so easy.

Given that the mortality rates increase with age and that most doctors will enjoy a (rightly) comfortable retirement, perhaps returning to work in a COVID ward doesn’t strike them as the opportunity that they have always longed for...

 

[initiation]

Many have been analysing the data carefully and reassuring that either there wouldn’t be a second wave

Would this be called a wave of excess deaths? Looks more like a ripple broadly comparable to the winter of 2017/18.
Hint: not all 'Covid deaths' are excess deaths.

Graphs and maps from EUROMOMO

www.euromomo.eu

 

[sjpowermac]

Would this be called a wave of excess deaths? Looks more like a ripple broadly comparable to the winter of 2017/18.
Hint: not all 'Covid deaths' are excess deaths.

View attachment 87881

Graphs and maps from EUROMOMO

www.euromomo.eu

My understanding, which I’m happy to be corrected on, is that ‘too many’ Covid patients are having the temerity to stick around and recover, rather than doing the decent thing and shuffling off to the mortuary after a few days.

Again, please do correct me, but are you saying that the NHS is not under pressure?

For the avoidance of doubt, I’m not a ‘lockdown’ enthusiast, so I’m very happy to hear your calm analysis of the situation. Are you saying that there’s no ‘second wave’?

 

[yorkie]

Again, please do correct me, but are you saying that the NHS is not under pressure?

The NHS is always under pressure at this time of year, so the answer of course is yes.

For the avoidance of doubt, I’m not a ‘lockdown’ enthusiast, so I’m very happy to hear your calm analysis of the situation. Are you saying that there’s no ‘second wave’?

How do you define a 'wave''?

Coronavirus: What is a second wave and is one coming?

What are second waves and how big a problem are they?

www.bbc.co.uk

"It's not particularly scientific: how you define a wave is arbitrary,"

Coronavirus: What's the evidence Europe is having a 'second wave'?

Prime Minister Boris Johnson has talked of a "second wave" of coronavirus. But is the phrase misleading?

www.bbc.co.uk

...the truth is many experts try to avoid the phrase altogether.

I think it is best to avoid the terms ''wave'' and, while we're at it, ''herd immunity'' (which appears to have more than one interpretation of what it is, and furthermore is used incorrectly by people on both 'sides')

I am sure there are plenty of other words that are best avoided too!

 

[sjpowermac]

The NHS is always under pressure at this time of year, so the answer of course is yes.


How do you define a 'wave''?

Yes, the NHS is always under pressure at this time of year. I wonder how much the 21 000 Covid patients is helping with that?

It’s certainly true that we don’t have the same number of daily Covid deaths as back in April, but the numbers in hospitals have certainly increased a little since the summer, presumably with knock-on effects on care for other illnesses.

Many thanks for the links, interesting reading, and agreed about the terms

 

[Yew]

the numbers in hospitals have certainly increased a little since the summer, presumably with knock-on effects on care for other illnesses.

That is typically how respiratory illnesses spread outside of the tropics, so hardly unprecedented.

 

[Bantamzen]

Yes, the NHS is always under pressure at this time of year. I wonder how much the 21 000 Covid patients is helping with that?

It’s certainly true that we don’t have the same number of daily Covid deaths as back in April, but the numbers in hospitals have certainly increased a little since the summer, presumably with knock-on effects on care for other illnesses.

Many thanks for the links, interesting reading, and agreed about the terms

Is it 21,000 covid patients or 21,000 patients with covid, remembering that for much of the year many other treatments and operations were cancelled?

 

[sjpowermac]

Is it 21,000 covid patients or 21,000 patients with covid, remembering that for much of the year many other treatments and operations were cancelled?

Dunno, please do enlighten me. Either way up, it doesn’t seem like the steady away situation that many were predicting in the summer. And the point still stands about the difficulty of attracting retired doctors to chance it on Covid wards...

That is typically how respiratory illnesses spread outside of the tropics, so hardly unprecedented.

Many thanks for that, really helpful to know, appreciated

 

[Bantamzen]

Dunno, please do enlighten me. Either way up, it doesn’t seem like the steady away situation that many were predicting in the summer. And the point still stands about the difficulty of attracting retired doctors to chance it on Covid ward

I was asking you, and please remember to show your working out of the calculations....

Seriously though you are aware of the huge backlog of treatments and operations as a result of the prioritisation of covid over pretty much everything else? So is it not possible that what we are seeing is people needing urgent attention and some just having the virus?

 

[sjpowermac]

I was asking you, and please remember to show your working out of the calculations....

Seriously though you are aware of the huge backlog of treatments and operations as a result of the prioritisation of covid over pretty much everything else? So is it not possible that what we are seeing is people needing urgent attention and some just having the virus?

I’ve absolutely no idea, how on earth can I possibly know? All ways round the hospitals are looking a tad busy right now and I suspect those who are there ‘just having the virus’ have a bit more than a tickly cough

Still no sign of all those retired doctors rushing to help out, do you have a plan to tempt them?

 

[northernchris]

I was asking you, and please remember to show your working out of the calculations....

Seriously though you are aware of the huge backlog of treatments and operations as a result of the prioritisation of covid over pretty much everything else? So is it not possible that what we are seeing is people needing urgent attention and some just having the virus?

Interesting point - it's possible that some of the inpatients are only there because the preventative work that the NHS usually carry out was paused for months earlier in the year.

 

[Bantamzen]

I’ve absolutely no idea, how on earth can I possibly know? All ways round the hospitals are looking a tad busy right now and I suspect those who are there ‘just having the virus’ have a bit more than a tickly cough

Still no sign of all those retired doctors rushing to help out, do you have a plan to tempt them?

So is it possible that the hospitas are filling up with people whose treatments were cancelled earlier in the year?

Interesting point - it's possible that some of the inpatients are only there because the preventative work that the NHS usually carry out was paused for months earlier in the year.

Exactly, the waiting lists have grown rapidly since late March and it is entirely possible that a lot of the strain on the NHS is as a result of people's worsening conditions as a result of having treatments cancelled.

 

[kez19]

So is it possible that the hospitas are filling up with people whose treatments were cancelled earlier in the year?


Exactly, the waiting lists have grown rapidly since late March and it is entirely possible that a lot of the strain on the NHS is as a result of people's worsening conditions as a result of having treatments cancelled.

Just throwing a spanner here, but like everything has been made to be COVID-secure then why is the NHS not getting its finger out and moving forward quicker?, surely if businesses can do it then why can the NHS?

Few weeks back I managed to get my orthodontist appointment at the Dental Hospital but after that i'm back to phone call appointments (ironic I had a letter from my dentist and Specsavers for arranging to get back but when lockdowns happen it totally throws everything off course and it doesn't exactly fill you with confidence to go and arrange it, but well done governments kicking the can further or unless they are happy doing this on purpose!)

Can I ask I see/hear on Government ads in terms of "saving the NHS" and the public doing their bit but surely this is really under the governments/devolved nations responsibility is it not? So surely its them not us that need to "save" the NHS? Even for myself I am laughing at that part now, its lost all meaning to back in March, I bought in to it but now I am passed caring.

Lets have all these politicians being more adult about the NHS and all things in life than act like a bunch of nitwits.

 

[initiation]

Again, please do correct me, but are you saying that the NHS is not under pressure?

No. But as noted above you can find any number of articles from previous years where the NHS is under winter pressures.

As per the graph below, bed occupancy is significantly lower than previous years. Winter 2020 so far has the lowest bed occupancy for the last 10 years.

The Government do not publish data on the breakdown of true community vs hospital (nosocomial) acquired infections. However this article puts it at about 25% so very significant when people talk about hospitals being at capacity.

Covid infections caught in hospital rise by a third in one week

The number of people likely to have caught covid-19 in NHS hospitals in England has risen by more than a third in the last week.

www.hsj.co.uk

What I consider really dangerous is the precedent that we the population should sacrifice so much in the name of 'protecting the NHS'. Expect similar calls next year even if covid-19 disappears.

 

[sjpowermac]

So is it possible that the hospitas are filling up with people whose treatments were cancelled earlier in the year?

All ways round, the hospitals do seem to be filling up rather quickly.

Please forgive the leftie newspaper quote, we cord jacket with elbow patches types tend to get our information there, but it seems the London hospitals now have more Covid 19 patients than during than in April:

UK records its highest number of new Covid infections, with 53,135 cases

Daily increase in infections is new record and considerably higher than Monday’s 41,385

www.theguardian.com

The number of Covid-19 patients in hospital in London is now higher than levels recorded at the peak of the first wave of the virus. A total of 5,371 hospital patients were confirmed as having Covid-19 as of 8am on 29 December, according to the latest figures from NHS England. During the first wave, the number of patients in London peaked at 5,201 on 9 April.

Apologies that the quote uses the forbidden word ‘wave’. Choose why people are there, are you claiming that the hospitals are not under pressure?

No. But as noted above you can find any number of articles from previous years where the NHS is under winter pressures.

As per the graph below, bed occupancy is significantly lower than previous years. Winter 2020 so far has the lowest bed occupancy for the last 10 years.

The Government do not publish data on the breakdown of true community vs hospital (nosocomial) acquired infections. However this article puts it at about 25% so very significant when people talk about hospitals being at capacity.

Covid infections caught in hospital rise by a third in one week

The number of people likely to have caught covid-19 in NHS hospitals in England has risen by more than a third in the last week.

www.hsj.co.uk

What I consider really dangerous is the precedent that we the population should sacrifice so much in the name of 'protecting the NHS'. Expect similar calls next year even if covid-19 disappears.

All of which might well be true, but what is happening is at significant variance from what the posters I quoted were saying in the summer.

Many thanks for the article, shocking the number of people picking up Covid whilst in hospital.

 

[Bantamzen]

All ways round, the hospitals do seem to be filling up rather quickly.

Please forgive the leftie newspaper quote, we cord jacket with elbow patches types tend to get our information there, but it seems the London hospitals now have more Covid 19 patients than during than in April:

UK records its highest number of new Covid infections, with 53,135 cases

Daily increase in infections is new record and considerably higher than Monday’s 41,385

www.theguardian.com

Apologies that the quote uses the forbidden word ‘wave’. Choose why people are there, are you claiming that the hospitals are not under pressure?


All of which might well be true, but what is happening is at significant variance from what the posters I quoted were saying in the summer.

Many thanks for the article, shocking the number of people picking up Covid whilst in hospital.

OK at this point I note that you are dodging a key question. Having asked one twice I don't intend to ask again, but I will say you won't find your answer in the particular media source you refer to. Let me know when you are prepared to tackle the question and we can continue.

 

[sjpowermac]

OK at this point I note that you are dodging a key question. Having asked one twice I don't intend to ask again, but I will say you won't find your answer in the particular media source you refer to. Let me know when you are prepared to tackle the question and we can continue.

I’ve looked but I can’t find any figures to back up your claim that the hospitals are filling up due to patients who should have been treated earlier in the year. I think I did answer your question, I said ‘I don’t know’. Since you are something of a doyen of the virus threads I was hoping you might be able to help me.

But let’s say it’s true and there are a significant number of people there who should have been there earlier in the year. Are you saying the 21 000 figure widely quoted in the press contains very few people with Covid?

Perhaps you would like now to account for the validity of your post I quoted from the summer? In addition, I’ve asked you several times how you intend to tempt back retired doctors to take their chances on the Covid wards. It seems you are the one avoiding questions