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Memories of London Country

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frodshamfella

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I was brought up in Bexleyheath and as a lad I remember the local routes of London Country. I'm talking of 1970s, routes 400 401 401A 486. Plus the 491 from Belvedere to Horton Kirby and 467 from Sidcup to the same destination. Does anyone remember this period ?
 
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Typhoon

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480 Erith to Denton, Milton Ale Shades (took me years to find out what that meant) - worked by Routemasters - always looked smart until their last few years when they looked very shabby.

Belvedere routes largely worked by RFs.

On reflection, odd to remember London Country some distance into London.

(Really, I'm talking late sixties, early seventies.)
 

Wirewiper

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I certainly remember my forays into the London Country area from around 1974 onwards, as I lived in Harrow they tended to be northwards into Hertfordshire with the occasional ride south on a Green Line from Stanmore.

Coach-seated Leyland Nationals on the Green Line 708 and 719, Leyland Atlanteans on the 321 and local routes in Watford, RP AEC Reliance coaches on the orbital Green line 724 and 727 routes, and RMC Routemaster coaches on the long interurban 330 and 341 linking Hemel Hempstead, St Albans, Hatfield, Welwyn Garden City and Hertford until 1977 - these were ideal buses for these routes until they succumbed to plastic-seated Leyland Nationals. RTs and RFs had pretty much gone by 1974 although a few still soldiered on later into the decade. The more rural routes to the North and the East of the county often produced a narrow Bristol LH (the BN class) which I seem to recall had manual gearboxes - am I right, or am I imagining this? Later in the 1970s the B-series Leyland Nationals (the ones without the roof pods) took over more routes, and of course full-specification coaches started entering service on Green Line routes from 1977, with the London-Luton Airport routes 707 and 717 (replacing part of the 712/713/714) being the first. London Country would go on to operate the largest fleet of Leyland Nationals in the UK as it gradually shed its London inheritance.
 

frodshamfella

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480 Erith to Denton, Milton Ale Shades (took me years to find out what that meant) - worked by Routemasters - always looked smart until their last few years when they looked very shabby.

Belvedere routes largely worked by RFs.

On reflection, odd to remember London Country some distance into London.

(Really, I'm talking late sixties, early seventies.)

Yes I remember the 480, I used to catch the 122A from Erith when I was at school, remember seeing it waiting on stand.
 

frodshamfella

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I vaguely remember the 701 greenline running along Bexleyheath Broadway but can't remember the 702.. I remember and used quite a bit the orbital 725, and sister route 726. I remember The Belvedere Eardley Arms terminus destination, was also used by LT 99 route. I think the 486 always terminated there but I might be wrong with 400s and 401s going to Belvedere Station also the 491.
 
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Busaholic

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Don't forget the last route to be worked by RMCs, the 477 out of Swanley Garage. IIRC the regular short turn at Crockenhill was the main reason given for opo not occurring earlier, but the layout of the very old garage and the lack of desire to spend money on it may have had as much influence!
 

Typhoon

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I remember The Belvedere Eardley Arms terminus destination, was also used by LT 99 route. I think the 486 always terminated there but I might be wrong with 400s and 401s going to Belvedere Station also the 491.
I think you are right (although I can't guarantee that the 486 always terminated at the Eardley). Only short workings on the 99 did, of course.
401A to Joydens Wood and 486 to Joyce Green were largely in London. Did the 401 not go to Sevenoaks at one stage? (Later on, I think it was curtailed to Eynsford.)
I can remember travelling on a 701 on a rail-strike day. It was heaving but I think both this and the 725/6 struggled to keep to the timetable.

Like the 480, the RMCs on the 477 looked very tired at the end, although I didn't see them so much.
 

Busaholic

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I think you are right (although I can't guarantee that the 486 always terminated at the Eardley). Only short workings on the 99 did, of course.
401A to Joydens Wood and 486 to Joyce Green were largely in London. Did the 401 not go to Sevenoaks at one stage? (Later on, I think it was curtailed to Eynsford.)
I can remember travelling on a 701 on a rail-strike day. It was heaving but I think both this and the 725/6 struggled to keep to the timetable.

Like the 480, the RMCs on the 477 looked very tired at the end, although I didn't see them so much.
Yes, the 401 went to Sevenoaks, and was partly worked by Dunton Green, so DG worked RTs on trunk routes 401, 402 and 403 simultaneously (can't quite remember now, but I think on the latter route DG only worked to West Croydon, rather than Wallington?.
 

Typhoon

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Yes, the 401 went to Sevenoaks, and was partly worked by Dunton Green, so DG worked RTs on trunk routes 401, 402 and 403 simultaneously (can't quite remember now, but I think on the latter route DG only worked to West Croydon, rather than Wallington?.
Thank you, it is pleasing to think that my brain cells haven't all atrophied. I am afraid that, when I was a kid, Sevenoaks might just as well as have been on Mars. When I saw the 401s at the north end, they always seemed to be single deckers (I may be wrong). From my (distant) memory, the buses in the Belvedere area were never exactly over full. Later, the route between Eynsford and Sevenoaks was abandoned so loadings at the southern end must have pretty poor. Therefore some of London Country's problems might come been through not matching vehicle types with demand.
 

Busaholic

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Thank you, it is pleasing to think that my brain cells haven't all atrophied. I am afraid that, when I was a kid, Sevenoaks might just as well as have been on Mars. When I saw the 401s at the north end, they always seemed to be single deckers (I may be wrong). From my (distant) memory, the buses in the Belvedere area were never exactly over full. Later, the route between Eynsford and Sevenoaks was abandoned so loadings at the southern end must have pretty poor. Therefore some of London Country's problems might come been through not matching vehicle types with demand.
I only ever travelled once on the 401, all the way from Dartford to Sevenoaks on one of those RTs, probably just prior to their withdrawal. I believe the route continued through to Sevenoaks after single deck opo conversion (Leyland National?). Although I grew up in Eltham, as the Red Rover ticket restricted me to red bus routes I never went on those 486s and 491s or ever, to my particular regret, the 467 from Sidcup Station, though the latter has been 'recreated' on a Running Day, but I still didn't get to catch it!
 

Typhoon

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I only ever travelled once on the 401, all the way from Dartford to Sevenoaks on one of those RTs, probably just prior to their withdrawal. I believe the route continued through to Sevenoaks after single deck opo conversion (Leyland National?). Although I grew up in Eltham, as the Red Rover ticket restricted me to red bus routes I never went on those 486s and 491s or ever, to my particular regret, the 467 from Sidcup Station, though the latter has been 'recreated' on a Running Day, but I still didn't get to catch it!
The reason I think it was curtailed is that I planned a big adventure, walked to Belvedere, got a Green Rover, only to be told when we "we don't go to Sevenoaks any more". Of course, it could be journeys from Belvedere didn't run through (or the driver didn't fancy some oik travelling on his bus). All my plans went up in smoke. That day I learnt the pitfalls of travelling on public transport.
 

Typhoon

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Apparently SMs replaced RTs in 1971! And it was the 491s that were operated by RFs.
 

frodshamfella

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I think you are right (although I can't guarantee that the 486 always terminated at the Eardley). Only short workings on the 99 did, of course.
401A to Joydens Wood and 486 to Joyce Green were largely in London. Did the 401 not go to Sevenoaks at one stage? (Later on, I think it was curtailed to Eynsford.)
I can remember travelling on a 701 on a rail-strike day. It was heaving but I think both this and the 725/6 struggled to keep to the timetable.

Like the 480, the RMCs on the 477 looked very tired at the end, although I didn't see them so much.

Yes your right the 401 went to Sevenoaks at one time, but I only remember it reaching as far as Eynsford Station. Sevenoaks from Belvedere was a very haul.

I never found the 725 too late actually, considering the very long route.
 

frodshamfella

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Apparently SMs replaced RTs in 1971! And it was the 491s that were operated by RFs.

I think the 491 became the 491 later. Dartford via Barnehurst Bexleyheath and North Cray to Sidcup. The 467 went too, as that did the North Cray to Sidcup section.
 

frodshamfella

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A route called 421 ran for a while Bexleyheath to Swanley via Joydens Wood must have replaced 401A. Think 401A used RTs ?Terminating at Summerhouse Drive.
 

frodshamfella

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I think you are right (although I can't guarantee that the 486 always terminated at the Eardley). Only short workings on the 99 did, of course.
401A to Joydens Wood and 486 to Joyce Green were largely in London. Did the 401 not go to Sevenoaks at one stage? (Later on, I think it was curtailed to Eynsford.)
I can remember travelling on a 701 on a rail-strike day. It was heaving but I think both this and the 725/6 struggled to keep to the timetable.

Like the 480, the RMCs on the 477 looked very tired at the end, although I didn't see them so much.

Yes I have a feeling at least some 486s went to belvedere station, so long ago !!!!
 

frodshamfella

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Thank you, it is pleasing to think that my brain cells haven't all atrophied. I am afraid that, when I was a kid, Sevenoaks might just as well as have been on Mars. When I saw the 401s at the north end, they always seemed to be single deckers (I may be wrong). From my (distant) memory, the buses in the Belvedere area were never exactly over full. Later, the route between Eynsford and Sevenoaks was abandoned so loadings at the southern end must have pretty poor. Therefore some of London Country's problems might come been through not matching vehicle types with demand.

Same here, all those far off destinations were like exotic islands you would never visit lol. When I got a bit older I went to Eynsford see go to see the nearby Roman Villa. I think the Dartford area sections were when it was better used.
 

frodshamfella

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I only ever travelled once on the 401, all the way from Dartford to Sevenoaks on one of those RTs, probably just prior to their withdrawal. I believe the route continued through to Sevenoaks after single deck opo conversion (Leyland National?). Although I grew up in Eltham, as the Red Rover ticket restricted me to red bus routes I never went on those 486s and 491s or ever, to my particular regret, the 467 from Sidcup Station, though the latter has been 'recreated' on a Running Day, but I still didn't get to catch it!

My local bus was the 122. We got off in Long Lane Bexleyheath, but I remember waiting at the clock tower and seeing the green buses , they seemed so exotic to me.
 

frodshamfella

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Does anyone remember the long route the number. 423, starting in Longfield ( may have gone further once) and ran to Swanley? Actually it might have originally have run to West Kingsdown now I'm thinking of it. There was a 423A which ran around the Swanley housing estates and the 21A came down from Eltham.
 
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Mikey C

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All I remember is Nationals and Atlanteans, not that I ever used London Country buses much as the 96 was so much more useful
 

Typhoon

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Does anyone remember the long route the number. 423, starting in Longfield ( may have gone further once) and ran to Swanley? Actually it might have originally have run to West Kingsdown now I'm thinking of it. There was a 423A which ran around the Swanley housing estates and the 21A came down from Eltham.
423 - yes. Worked from Swanley garage. Never went on it, though. I am trying to remember - I am sure that either 423 or 477 were sometimes worked by borrowed buses at one time. I'm sure I saw them up by Hesketh Park. Added a splash of colour.
 

Typhoon

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Yes I have a feeling at least some 486s went to belvedere station, so long ago !!!!
I seem to remember some journeys - peak times - on one of the routes at one time crossed the railway line and went down to the river. I maybe imagining this but I think it was for Ford workers.

Of course, it could just be someone trying to shut me up when asking 'where is that bus going?'
 

frodshamfella

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I seem to remember some journeys - peak times - on one of the routes at one time crossed the railway line and went down to the river. I maybe imagining this but I think it was for Ford workers.

Of course, it could just be someone trying to shut me up when asking 'where is that bus going?'

Your not they use to go th Belvedere Generating Station, a couple of peak workings I think.
 

Busaholic

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Does anyone remember the long route the number. 423, starting in Longfield ( may have gone further once) and ran to Swanley? Actually it might have originally have run to West Kingsdown now I'm thinking of it. There was a 423A which ran around the Swanley housing estates and the 21A came down from Eltham.
A great shame I only sold last week a book I've had since the 1990s entitled 'London Country in the 1970s' as surplus to my requirements. It had some nice photos, as well as text, but I'd not looked at it for donkey's years. I'm sure it would have provided some of the answers to questions posed here.
However, a book I do still have is entitled 'Country Buses Volume Three 1960-1969' by Laurie Akehurst, the definitive history of London Transport's Country Area in 3 volumes. The photo on the front cover is of a 401 bound for Upper Belvedere, but unfortunately there is no covering description of where and when the photo was taken. In the book though, in sections covering the mid 60s, are photos of RTs (a) standing at the Eardley Arms terminus of the 401 with blind showing Sevenoaks, so through journeys were offered; (b) on the 491 at the Woolwich Road stop just before the Upper Belvedere terminus, with blind already reset for Wilmington and (c) on the newly-extended 423 at Wrotham Square in 1964, going to Longfield Station the rather long way round! The caption of the 491 photo is informative: it says that most 491s turned into 467s when they got to Wilmington, and then went on to Sidcup Station. This helps explain why I often saw 467s with 491 canopy blinds etc. Also, from what I remember when I worked in the same office at LT with Mr Akehurst for a short time, he then lived in Belvedere, so I guess his info is gospel!
 

frodshamfella

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A great shame I only sold last week a book I've had since the 1990s entitled 'London Country in the 1970s' as surplus to my requirements. It had some nice photos, as well as text, but I'd not looked at it for donkey's years. I'm sure it would have provided some of the answers to questions posed here.
However, a book I do still have is entitled 'Country Buses Volume Three 1960-1969' by Laurie Akehurst, the definitive history of London Transport's Country Area in 3 volumes. The photo on the front cover is of a 401 bound for Upper Belvedere, but unfortunately there is no covering description of where and when the photo was taken. In the book though, in sections covering the mid 60s, are photos of RTs (a) standing at the Eardley Arms terminus of the 401 with blind showing Sevenoaks, so through journeys were offered; (b) on the 491 at the Woolwich Road stop just before the Upper Belvedere terminus, with blind already reset for Wilmington and (c) on the newly-extended 423 at Wrotham Square in 1964, going to Longfield Station the rather long way round! The caption of the 491 photo is informative: it says that most 491s turned into 467s when they got to Wilmington, and then went on to Sidcup Station. This helps explain why I often saw 467s with 491 canopy blinds etc. Also, from what I remember when I worked in the same office at LT with Mr Akehurst for a short time, he then lived in Belvedere, so I guess his info is gospel!


Thank you for the info, and for reminding me of those times gone by. I may try and get those books somewhere. Carl
 

frodshamfella

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A great shame I only sold last week a book I've had since the 1990s entitled 'London Country in the 1970s' as surplus to my requirements. It had some nice photos, as well as text, but I'd not looked at it for donkey's years. I'm sure it would have provided some of the answers to questions posed here.
However, a book I do still have is entitled 'Country Buses Volume Three 1960-1969' by Laurie Akehurst, the definitive history of London Transport's Country Area in 3 volumes. The photo on the front cover is of a 401 bound for Upper Belvedere, but unfortunately there is no covering description of where and when the photo was taken. In the book though, in sections covering the mid 60s, are photos of RTs (a) standing at the Eardley Arms terminus of the 401 with blind showing Sevenoaks, so through journeys were offered; (b) on the 491 at the Woolwich Road stop just before the Upper Belvedere terminus, with blind already reset for Wilmington and (c) on the newly-extended 423 at Wrotham Square in 1964, going to Longfield Station the rather long way round! The caption of the 491 photo is informative: it says that most 491s turned into 467s when they got to Wilmington, and then went on to Sidcup Station. This helps explain why I often saw 467s with 491 canopy blinds etc. Also, from what I remember when I worked in the same office at LT with Mr Akehurst for a short time, he then lived in Belvedere, so I guess his info is gospel!

I just ordered a copy of the London country in 1970s book, was a good price .
 
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