Memories of Mk3 coaches & loco haulage on prime express routes

[Sad Sprinter]

How sad, the last truly proper trains on the British railway network-apart from the remaining 125s. Glad that I had few runs on them and did London to Norwich and back two years ago and London to Ipswich late last year. They were tired out, but on a MK3, you always felt that you were really "going somewhere".

 

[HamworthyGoods]

How sad, the last truly proper trains on the British railway network-apart from the remaining 125s. Glad that I had few runs on them and did London to Norwich and back two years ago and London to Ipswich late last year. They were tired out, but on a MK3, you always felt that you were really "going somewhere".

What about East Coast?

Anglia sets were 90+Mk3s+DVT
East Coast sets are 91+Mk4s+DVT

Surely if one is a “proper train” by definition as they are the same formation of loco plus stock plus DVT surely East Coast is the same, also a “proper train”?

 

[D365]

Surely if one is a “proper train” by definition as they are the same formation of loco plus stock plus DVT surely East Coast is the same, also a “proper train”?

For fear of delving further into a rabbit hole, what about TPE?

 

[WesternLancer]

For fear of delving further into a rabbit hole, what about TPE?

The 1st 'new' proper trains..but I know what Sad Sprinter Means

 

[WesternLancer]

How sad, the last truly proper trains on the British railway network-apart from the remaining 125s. Glad that I had few runs on them and did London to Norwich and back two years ago and London to Ipswich late last year. They were tired out, but on a MK3, you always felt that you were really "going somewhere".

I know what you mean.

 

[Domh245]

Proper train presumably means seats from the 70s and that you have to contort yourself out of a window to get out?

 

[jopsuk]

How sad, the last truly proper trains on the British railway network-apart from the remaining 125s. Glad that I had few runs on them and did London to Norwich and back two years ago and London to Ipswich late last year. They were tired out, but on a MK3, you always felt that you were really "going somewhere".

I mean, as well as the East Coast & TPE examples, Chiltern still have Mark 3s with loco +DVT and will for a good few years yet

 

[WesternLancer]

I mean, as well as the East Coast & TPE examples, Chiltern still have Mark 3s with loco +DVT and will for a good few years yet

Maybe, but what did the Romans ever do for us?

 

[lord rathmore]

Like others I’m sorry there couldn’t be a send-off railtour. However the Mark 3s were life-expired & the 90s are going on to further use. As the 745s are good trains I’m happy with the change. I’ll be interested to see how the 720s are, once I’m released from house-arrest.

 

[BRX]

What about East Coast?

Anglia sets were 90+Mk3s+DVT
East Coast sets are 91+Mk4s+DVT

Surely if one is a “proper train” by definition as they are the same formation of loco plus stock plus DVT surely East Coast is the same, also a “proper train”?

You could argue that a proper train involves carriages that can be coupled to other types of carriages.

 

[Taunton]

Proper train presumably means seats from the 70s and that you have to contort yourself out of a window to get out?

Actually in the 1970s the seats were fine. It was only in privatisation time that TOCs squeezed the seats up to pack more in.

Glad that I had few runs on them and did London to Norwich and back two years ago and London to Ipswich late last year.

I did Stratford to Liverpool Street a few weeks ago on one on an Oyster

 

[Dr Hoo]

Actually in the 1970s the seats were fine. It was only in privatisation time that TOCs squeezed the seats up to pack more in.

The 'seat rot' set in with the Mark IIf IIRC, with their horrible, elbow-numbing, fixed rubber central armrests.

The earlier designs of Mark II had the 'wing headrest' seats, which weren't everyone's favourite as it seemed hard to snooze in them but at least you could squeeze past the table relatively easily.

 

[Whistler40145]

Straying from their normal territory, Mark 3s visited the South West on Summer Saturdays, usually a Class 45/1

 

[gazthomas]

As someone who lived in North Wales I always loved the change of traction to/from diesel/electric at Crewe. The closest we've got to this recently was with the summer Saturday service from London Liverpool St to Great Yarmouth.

I remember when I saw my first card phone on a mark 3 carriage and thought I'd just changed universe

 

[hexagon789]

Actually in the 1970s the seats were fine. It was only in privatisation time that TOCs squeezed the seats up to pack more in.

BR started that in the mid-80s, altering Standard Class Mk3s from 72 to 76 seats, they also fitted out ex-First Class Mk2f with 74 Std class seats, so not a purely privitisation thing.

 

[yorksrob]

I thought the Greater Anglia set interiors were extremely smart and pleasent to travel in after their last refurbishment.

 

[Sad Sprinter]

What about East Coast?

Anglia sets were 90+Mk3s+DVT
East Coast sets are 91+Mk4s+DVT

Surely if one is a “proper train” by definition as they are the same formation of loco plus stock plus DVT surely East Coast is the same, also a “proper train”?

Oh, I didn't know the 225s were still going on the East Coast.

I mean, as well as the East Coast & TPE examples, Chiltern still have Mark 3s with loco +DVT and will for a good few years yet

True, forgot about Chiltern too.

 

[hexagon789]

Oh, I didn't know the 225s were still going on the East Coast.

There's also some Mk4s in Wales and eventually some on the WCML...

 

[ChiefPlanner]

Somone described the paradox of MK3 and MK2 coaches in front line service on the WCML - which had a MK 1 BG coach and a MK 1 RMB , - "very 1970's" - with hard plastic orange bucket seats and usually open vent windows through which a gale howled on hot days , as you enjoyed your can of McEwans and a pork pie or Lyons "apple" pie.

Then you went back to your nice air con vehicle.

 

[Ianno87]

Mk3s for me will always be associated with WCML. Pendolinos are great, but if I had a railway time machine for just one day....

 

[Whistler40145]

I always enjoyed the ride on a Mark 3 set from Preston to Blackpool North, mainly to avoid the rough ride of a Class 142 Pacer.

 

[Helvellyn]

Somone described the paradox of MK3 and MK2 coaches in front line service on the WCML - which had a MK 1 BG coach and a MK 1 RMB , - "very 1970's" - with hard plastic orange bucket seats and usually open vent windows through which a gale howled on hot days , as you enjoyed your can of McEwans and a pork pie or Lyons "apple" pie.

Then you went back to your nice air con vehicle.

Whilst the HSTs were obviously ordered as fixed sets the Mark 3 LHCS for the WCML have always felt like an ad-hoc order to augment the air conditioned Mark 2D/2E/2F stock there until the squadron APT fleet could be delivered.

 

[Iskra]

Mk3s for me will always be associated with WCML. Pendolinos are great, but if I had a railway time machine for just one day....

Same. Teenage memories of classes 86/87/90 dragging me over Shap on a rover on the Northern WCML. Happy times.

MK3's often make me think of the sleepers too, both the Night Riviera and the Caledonian. Even though they ran with Mk2's too.

 

[ChiefPlanner]

Whilst the HSTs were obviously ordered as fixed sets the Mark 3 LHCS for the WCML have always felt like an ad-hoc order to augment the air conditioned Mark 2D/2E/2F stock there until the squadron APT fleet could be delivered.

Exactly -hence the odd style / ambience of the "catering" vehicles , but it was a cash strapped railway then ......

 

[hexagon789]

Whilst the HSTs were obviously ordered as fixed sets the Mark 3 LHCS for the WCML have always felt like an ad-hoc order to augment the air conditioned Mark 2D/2E/2F stock there until the squadron APT fleet could be delivered.

The LHCS Mk3s entered service first though, over a year before the Western Region introduced 125mph running with HSTs.

 

[hexagon789]

Exactly -hence the odd style / ambience of the "catering" vehicles , but it was a cash strapped railway then ......

There were new build Mk3a RUBs, but they were delivered after the FO and TSO vehicles

 

[43096]

There were new build Mk3a RUBs, but they were delivered after the FO and TSO vehicles

And there were only 28 of them, which certainly wasn't enough to replace the Mark 1 catering cars on West Coast. It is strange looking back that replacement of the Mark 1s was only completed when the Mark 3 RFM conversions took place in 1987/88. Strange too that no new Mark 2 aircon catering cars were built new.

 

[hexagon789]

And there were only 28 of them, which certainly wasn't enough to replace the Mark 1 catering cars on West Coast. It is strange looking back that replacement of the Mark 1s was only completed when the Mark 3 RFM conversions took place in 1987/88. Strange too that no new Mark 2 aircon catering cars were built new.

I think it's been suggested the lack of new-build Mk2 catering vehicles was down to the fact that when the early Mk2s were being constructed, the Mk1 restaurant and buffet cars were still quite new generally having been built after most of the seating vehicles.

Though I'm not sure that theory holds water for the introduction of Mk2 air-cons.

 

[30907]

I think it's been suggested the lack of new-build Mk2 catering vehicles was down to the fact that when the early Mk2s were being constructed, the Mk1 restaurant and buffet cars were still quite new generally having been built after most of the seating vehicles.
Though I'm not sure that theory holds water for the introduction of Mk2 air-cons.

I think it applies to the whole Mk2 era: catering vehicles (as opposed to dining saloons) are expensive, and the Mk 1s were IIRC mostly built later on (pre-nationalisation cars having had 5 years in storage during ww2).
Apart from internal refreshing, the Mk 1s on CW or B5 bogies were fine for 100mph, which is all the Mk2a/c stock was allowed.
The move to using ordinary FOs for dining coincided with the introduction of aircon, which also reduced demand.

 

[yorksrob]

I get that things were tight -

But plastic orange seats ?