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Merseyrail buffer stops at Kirkby, Ormskirk and Ellesmere Port

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Bletchleyite

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Possibly a solution for those rural basket-cases would be to select one (probably the one in the middle) to retain and upgrade as a "mini-parkway" to serve the villages and hamlets that currently each have their own station for some reason.

Burscough Bridge is in easy reach from New Lane, and Bescar Lane to Meols Cop isn't too bad a drive either (though it has no car park I suspect the level of demand won't exactly tax the streets around it). And as it's the flat as a pancake (Dutch style) West Lancashire plain, a bicycle would be just as good too.

(And before anyone shouts "Southerner" and proposes closure of Bletchley, I am very familiar with the West Lancashire area having lived in it from age 7 to 18, and most of my immediate family still lives there).
 
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A0wen

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It is however an effective connectional hub (and I'm sure it would get bigger if it got a commuter service to Liverpool). Furthermore it is quite heavily used as a "West Lancs Parkway" for those going to Manchester. We need to stop thinking of direct services from everywhere to everywhere and instead coordinate quality connections. Burscough would be an ideal place to do that.

Ever been to Cyffordd Dyfi? :D Even Mach isn't that big! Nor indeed is Bedwyn. Or Whitehaven. Or Blaenau Ffestiniog! There are plenty of such examples of termini of convenience/connectivity.

There's a few differences - I don't think anything terminates at Dovey Junction any longer? I'm not sure that much terminates at Machynlleth now either - mainly those that do are early / lates which then go to the depot.

Blaenau Ffestiniog isn't comparable as that's the end of a branch line - you really can't go any further on that one.

Bedwyn and Whitehaven are termini for some services from major places, however they don't provide an interchanges onto another service.

I'm not sure any of those come close to what you're proposing.
 

Bertie the bus

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It is however an effective connectional hub (and I'm sure it would get bigger if it got a commuter service to Liverpool). Furthermore it is quite heavily used as a "West Lancs Parkway" for those going to Manchester. We need to stop thinking of direct services from everywhere to everywhere and instead coordinate quality connections. Burscough would be an ideal place to do that.

Absolute rubbish. And by the way the station extension you propose has obliterated the station car park so how is it going to be used as a parkway?
 

Bletchleyite

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Absolute rubbish.

Thank you for your considered and constructive criticism.

And by the way the station extension you propose has obliterated the station car park so how is it going to be used as a parkway?

Purchase and demolish the industrial estate would be one option. An arrangement with Tesco for use of part of their large car park would be another.
 

Bertie the bus

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Thank you for your considered and constructive criticism.

It's as considered and constructive as I could possibly make it. Your suggestion is utterley ridiculous and so is your justification - get away from through trains from everywhere to everywhere? Ormskirk only has through trains to Liverpool and Preston. That is it and if you think making people change for a 15 mile journey benefits anybody then you have no idea.

Purchase and demolish the industrial estate would be one option. An arrangement with Tesco for use of part of their large car park would be another.

The Tesco car park isn't large and it is usually full.
 

Bletchleyite

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It's as considered and constructive as I could possibly make it. Your suggestion is utterley ridiculous and so is your justification - get away from through trains from everywhere to everywhere? Ormskirk only has through trains to Liverpool and Preston. That is it and if you think making people change for a 15 mile journey benefits anybody then you have no idea.

Did you read the bit where I pointed out that quite a bit of the demand connects via the Merseyrail Northern Line and doesn't come from Ormskirk itself? Those people would still have one change, just at a different place.
 

GRALISTAIR

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Not necessarily third rail. There have been many propsals to re-open both the through routes at Ormskirk and Kirkby over the years but nothing concrete,

The closest came with the All Party report Northwest Sparks ( http://www.railnorth.org/electrification/ ) where the project to Electrify Salford Crescent to Kirby and Southport was high up on their list of priorities -3rd to be precise after Calder Valley and the CLC Manchester to Liverpool route.
 

61653 HTAFC

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If you were electrifying to Burscough Bridge via the curves, and/or to Skelmersdale, I could see the concerns over new 3rd-rail being overlooked for relatively short distances (likewise to get Uckfield services out of the way of East Grinsteads before they switch modes beyond Hurst Green) but if going to Preston or Wigan you'd probably go with AC overheads.
 

daodao

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If you were electrifying to Burscough Bridge via the curves, and/or to Skelmersdale, I could see the concerns over new 3rd-rail being overlooked for relatively short distances (likewise to get Uckfield services out of the way of East Grinsteads before they switch modes beyond Hurst Green) but if going to Preston or Wigan you'd probably go with AC overheads.

There is no real expectation of extending Merseyrail services beyond Ormskirk as it (and Town Green/Aughton Park stations) lie outside Merseyside and the PTE boundaries. Lancashire CC seem to have little interest in promoting/developing public transport.
 

61653 HTAFC

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There is no real expectation of extending Merseyrail services beyond Ormskirk as it (and Town Green/Aughton Park stations) lie outside Merseyside and the PTE boundaries. Lancashire CC seem to have little interest in promoting/developing public transport.
There's perhaps a case to be made for looking at the existing PTE boundaries and tweaking them to better match how people live and work. Probably goes hand in hand with regional devolution but that's a whole different can of worms!
 

Bletchleyite

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There's perhaps a case to be made for looking at the existing PTE boundaries and tweaking them to better match how people live and work. Probably goes hand in hand with regional devolution but that's a whole different can of worms!

There was a local referendum on bringing West Lancashire (at least from Maghull to Ormskirk) into Merseyside, so Merseyside would encompass near enough all of the Liverpool travel-to-work area. This was thrown out with a significant majority against, most probably because of the high levels of Council Tax charged on Merseyside and because of an element of pretentiousness.
 

Ships

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There is no real expectation of extending Merseyrail services beyond Ormskirk as it (and Town Green/Aughton Park stations) lie outside Merseyside and the PTE boundaries. Lancashire CC seem to have little interest in promoting/developing public transport.

Except for the grip 1-3 study being undertaken....
 

PR1Berske

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There is no real expectation of extending Merseyrail services beyond Ormskirk as it (and Town Green/Aughton Park stations) lie outside Merseyside and the PTE boundaries. Lancashire CC seem to have little interest in promoting/developing public transport.

Lancashire CC do seem muddled about public transport. The interest they have in railways and building train stations has shrunk to almost nowt, largely because of the collapse in central funding. Skem will be its only focus on train travel for the foreseeable.
 

WatcherZero

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Lancashire do take a lot of interest in transport in East Lancashire and around Preston, however till now and the Skelmersdale study West Lancashire have always been considered the rural hicks by the county council.
 

tavistock

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Buffers at Ellesmere Port might get in the way of the forthcoming E Port to Man Victoria services starting next year...
Are you sure the EP to Man Vic will actually happen? I have been trying to find out from Northern for months now when the service will be introduced but have been stonewalled at every turn. I fear this was part of the franchise bid which will now be quietly forgotten and Northern will get away with not introducing it. If they ran it from Hooton it could actually be successful but they may have not thought about this.
 

LNW-GW Joint

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I wonder if Merseyrail could be extended to Preston or Wigan , though it would be new third rail !
Nobody is going to lay 3rd rail from Farington Curve Jn to Preston on the WCML, so it will have to be a dual-voltage setup anyway.
The new Stadler Merseyrail stock will at least allow the possibility of that.
 

Bletchleyite

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Nobody is going to lay 3rd rail from Farington Curve Jn to Preston on the WCML, so it will have to be a dual-voltage setup anyway.
The new Stadler Merseyrail stock will at least allow the possibility of that.

While I think a new setup involving an interchange at Burscough Bridge would be better, I'd suggest 25kV down to Ormskirk is more likely. It could be done similarly to the Windermere proposal, fed entirely from the Preston end.
 

B&I

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There was a local referendum on bringing West Lancashire (at least from Maghull to Ormskirk) into Merseyside, so Merseyside would encompass near enough all of the Liverpool travel-to-work area. This was thrown out with a significant majority against, most probably because of the high levels of Council Tax charged on Merseyside and because of an element of pretentiousness.


Suspect the approach might be different if continued validity of certain passes was made dependent on it.
 

ji459

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There was a local referendum on bringing West Lancashire (at least from Maghull to Ormskirk) into Merseyside, so Merseyside would encompass near enough all of the Liverpool travel-to-work area. This was thrown out with a significant majority against, most probably because of the high levels of Council Tax charged on Merseyside and because of an element of pretentiousness.
Are you sure there was a referendum?
 

Bletchleyite

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frodshamfella

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Possibly it was just a consultation, based on the below:

http://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/local-news/boundaries-to-be-shaken-up-2935245

Though my parents at the time spoke of having "voted" on it. The locals were *massively* against it, largely because of the high Council Tax and a perception of poor public services on Merseyside.

Ridiculous really when you consider there must be a high amount of flow from Ormskirk and other stations down the line by commuters and shoppers.
 

Bletchleyite

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Ridiculous really when you consider there must be a high amount of flow from Ormskirk and other stations down the line by commuters and shoppers.

Ormskirk and Aughton are a well off area with very high car ownership. Even given that Merseyrail is well used, rail travel will not have been anywhere near foremost in people’s minds when voting.
 

frodshamfella

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Ormskirk and Aughton are a well off area with very high car ownership. Even given that Merseyrail is well used, rail travel will not have been anywhere near foremost in people’s minds when voting.

May they enjoy their growing traffic jams. : -)
 

B&I

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May they enjoy their growing traffic jams. : -)


Knowing the odd, tuppence-looks-down-on-ha'ney attitudes of some people innthis country, they probably welcome the trafgic jams as a way of keeping Scousers out
 

backontrack

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It is however an effective connectional hub (and I'm sure it would get bigger if it got a commuter service to Liverpool). Furthermore it is quite heavily used as a "West Lancs Parkway" for those going to Manchester. We need to stop thinking of direct services from everywhere to everywhere and instead coordinate quality connections. Burscough would be an ideal place to do that.

Ever been to Cyffordd Dyfi? :D Even Mach isn't that big! Nor indeed is Bedwyn. Or Whitehaven. Or Blaenau Ffestiniog! There are plenty of such examples of termini of convenience/connectivity.
Whitehaven's quite big compared to some of these places - it has a population of almost 24,000.

Perhaps Burscough Junction station could be closed? A third-rail line could be built from Ormskirk to Skelmersdale, the Burscough Curve could be reinstated, and then we'd have an hourly Preston-Burscough Bridge-Southport service, with Merseyrail running through Ormskirk to Skelmersdale, and the Southport-Wigan-Manchester service staying roughly how it is now.

OK, so the stations between Preston and Burscough lose their service to Ormskirk, but you could still theoretically keep Burscough Junction open and have a two-hourly Preston-Ormskirk shuttle, right? Or you could even divide the Southport service at Rufford with one portio-let's not get over our heads.
 

Bletchleyite

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The most sensible pattern to me would be to build Burscough Bridge to a 4-platform interchange and operate as follows:-

Merseyrail: half hourly continuation on from Ormskirk to Burscough Bridge calling at Mill Dam Lane (new station) and Burscough Junction. The "other" half hour could go to Skem if desired, but it's more likely Skem will be served as an extension of the Kirkby line. For a half hourly service the line would not need doubling, just electrifying; I worked out a timetable that worked ages ago.

Northern: Hourly Preston to Burscough Bridge (single unit) on a timetable that co-ordinates with the Merseyrail service. Alternatively two units could I think run a through service to Southport.

All other services as they are, but if there are still any Northern services that miss Burscough Bridge, reinstate the stop.

Mothball the direct Rufford-Burscough Jn line and bridge.
 
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