Merseyrail Class 777

Discussion in 'Traction & Rolling Stock' started by OneThirtyEight, 5 Sep 2017.

  1. OneThirtyEight

    OneThirtyEight Member

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    The designation of the new Merseyrail rolling stock is Class 777, according to the latest company safety brief.
     
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  3. 61653 HTAFC

    61653 HTAFC Established Member

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    Jackpot! :D

    Just need a diesel version of them... The class 666!
     
  4. physics34

    physics34 Established Member

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    why are they being silly choosing Boeing numbers ;)
     
  5. jopsuk

    jopsuk Veteran Member

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    3-3-3 or 3-4-3 seating? :lol:
     
  6. D365

    D365 Established Member

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    Err... I was under the impression that 750-799 is being reserved for EDMUs...
     
  7. AM9

    AM9 Established Member

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    Whoever manages rolling stock class numbering is as bad as Ofcom is with phone number allocations.

    At least it means that they should be equipped for ac as well as DC.
     
    Last edited: 5 Sep 2017
  8. adrock1976

    adrock1976 Established Member

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    Could the classification have been 509 or 510 as a continuation of the 507s and 508s that are being replaced?

    When I looked at the TOPS classification list a long time ago, there is a lot of unused numbers between 509 to 599 inclusive.
     
  9. bb21

    bb21 Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    Don't forget car numbers are now six digits, and starting with the 400 series. It wouldn't surprise me if the 500 series are reserved accordingly.
     
  10. 507021

    507021 Established Member

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    I was also expecting a designation close to that of the existing units, but at least we have confirmation now.

    Thanks to the OP for sharing.
     
  11. Domh245

    Domh245 Established Member

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    You'd have thought so, but the 385/0 subclass have vehicles numbered 444001 to 444046, which overlaps with a certain SWR fleet almost perfectly so it seems that whoever issues vehicle numbers either doesn't care about overlaps or was a bit forgetful one day
     
  12. jopsuk

    jopsuk Veteran Member

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    creaking, groaning system... needs a wholescale replacement. I'd go for 8-digit vehicle numbers, with all existing vehicles renumbered. It would then be xxxyyyzz
    xxx: class number (could "rationalise" this whilst they're at it, been done before)
    yyy: set number
    zz: vehicle number

    (and for locos: 0xxyyy00)
     
  13. 43096

    43096 Established Member

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    Just use the EVN system.
     
  14. gazthomas

    gazthomas Established Member

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    It is quite a mess
     
  15. Brian Aylott

    Brian Aylott Member

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    Am I misunderstanding what you saying?
    Overlaps?
    How?
    There is no problem with having identical vehicle numbers to set numbers - there is no connection between vehicle and set numbers
    There only cannot be 2 vehicles with identical numbers
    Brian
     
  16. Domh245

    Domh245 Established Member

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    bb21 was talking about the carriage numbers and implied that the 5xxxxx could potentially be blocked out for use as carriage numbers. I was pointing out that there was already a range of overlaps between the units 444001 to 444045 and 385001 to 385045 (the latter having driving vehicles numbered 444001 to 444046) so *theoretically* these new units could have been 509xxx with that range of numbers also utilisable for vehicle numbers.

    As for issues it may throw up, I'd be surprised if there were none, but seeing as there is already this exception (and I've no doubt some others) I suppose it is ok.
     
  17. bb21

    bb21 Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    There may not be issues one envisage in the immediate environment, but having duplication can be a potential cause for problems in the future, especially when this is completely unnecessary. This is typical of a certain attitude in the industry which I have seen plenty so far. Stupid is putting it mildly.

    But what do I know I guess eh? ;)
     
  18. trash80

    trash80 Member

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    Obviously the civil servant in charge of TOPS EMU allocations is a plane spotter.
     
  19. Mikey C

    Mikey C Established Member

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    To be fair many of the Airbus numbers have also been used...310, 320, 350, 380 :D

    Does seem quite a random jump from the other Stadler units 745 and 755
     
  20. 12CSVT

    12CSVT Established Member

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    There's also a lot of unused class numbers between 324 and 398 (and between 400 and 499)
     
  21. Brian Aylott

    Brian Aylott Member

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    Nothing to do with any civil servants
    Brian
     
  22. swt_passenger

    swt_passenger Veteran Member

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    There's no evidence of that in the published group standard. 700-799 is not broken down into sections at all.
     
  23. dp21

    dp21 Member

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    Evening all,

    It is my understanding that this is to do with European regulation.

    Someone in the know made a fleeting comment that this was the reason but I didn't get the chance to ask any more info.

    For the number takers around, you may be interested to know that I hear it will be mandated for trains to feature that really long numbering system along the sole bar (it's the UIC mark I believe and wiki can tell you more).

    When? Not sure. But some people might need a larger note book to get all those numbers in ;).
     
  24. Peter Mugridge

    Peter Mugridge Established Member

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    Not necessarily...

    Most railways have so far managed to arrange their fleet numbers and EVNs to coincide so as long as you know which country and which operator you are looking at you should be able to manage with the normal short form of the number.

    For example, for SNCF carriage 50.87.22.37.025-3 you only need the underlined bit; in fact SNCF actually do underline that part - their own fleet number - on all their carriages. Other countries are not so helpful but the basic principle applies.

    Besides, don't some things in the UK already carry the EVNs without causing problems?
     
  25. Bevan Price

    Bevan Price Established Member

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    And from March 2019 (post Brexit) we will be able to ignore European regulations for any stock that remains exclusively within UK.
     
  26. swt_passenger

    swt_passenger Veteran Member

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    This has been suggested before, and at the moment UIC numbers most definitely do NOT have to be displayed externally on passenger stock that stays permanently within GB. It's all explained in the group standard.

    EMU and DMU set numbers are separate thing to the long UIC numbering scheme, the latter is applied to individual vehicles or locos only, but not sets.
     
  27. LNW-GW Joint

    LNW-GW Joint Veteran Member

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    Must be some logic for several new EMU class numbers to end with "7" (397, 707, 717 and now 777).
     
  28. 43096

    43096 Established Member

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    Except for the fact that the Government is hoping to pass legislation that folds EU regulations into U.K. law.

    The EVN system is far more sensible than the utter mess we have currently. Just one example being the use of 66xxx vehicle numbers in the Desiro fleet, when Class 66 already existed in the loco series. There are plenty of other stupidities and inconsistencies.
     
  29. Bletchleyite

    Bletchleyite Veteran Member

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    Only to make the transition easier. Then there would be a longer process of repealing the stuff that doesn't make sense, before which things like this would just not be enforced.
     
  30. fowler9

    fowler9 Established Member

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    And if the devil is six then god is seven. This monkeys gone to heaven.

    Pixies know the answer but I'm not holding my breath. Ha ha.
     
    Last edited: 8 Sep 2017
  31. D365

    D365 Established Member

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    :roll: The UIC classification system is most certainly not EU-exclusive.
     

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