Merseyrail Class 777 introduction updates

[shakey1961]

I was confused about that too. Was looking for it at Crewe and RTT didn't seem to be following it. Wonder what's happened? Loco failure?

 

[Domh245]

It hasn't left Kent yet and was meant to at quarter to three this morning...

Path was never activated that I can see, so clearly wasn't actually expected to run. Evidently nothing came through the tunnel to then be hauled northwards..

 

[shakey1961]

Curiouser and curiouser

 

[paddyb6]

Never planned to run, path there when needed in the future.

 

[Jamesrob637]

Path was never activated that I can see, so clearly wasn't actually expected to run. Evidently nothing came through the tunnel to then be hauled northwards..

Cheers. Saves me a trip to Acton Bridge today in a car with no functioning AC (mind you it wasn't due until 21:30 anyway when things are cooler)

 

[Liverpool 507]

There is a video of Eccles Crossing in Formby on the ”Mersey Railways” group on Facebook, featuring 777003 out on test during the early hours of this morning on the Southport line.

 

[Steelwheels]

Looks like last nights/this mornings testing was for the turn backs dotted along the Southport line, this will be very important in emergencies and rail engineering situations.

 

[Liverpool 507]

Looks like last nights/this mornings testing was for the turn backs dotted along the Southport line, this will be very important in emergencies and rail engineering situations.

Yes, absolutely! Makes sense as the unit was accelerating away from a stop in Platform 1 at Formby in the video.

 

[paddyb6]

Shame the test runs don't appear on Realtime Trains, it would be interesting to see what the units are doing. For example, it could come by me tonight, I've got no clue!

 

[Harryn9000]

open train times shows the network

 

[M28361M]

Shame the test runs don't appear on Realtime Trains, it would be interesting to see what the units are doing. For example, it could come by me tonight, I've got no clue!

Not on RTT, but they do show up on signalling diagrams. Look at Traksy or OpenTrainTimes maps. The test runs usually appear as headcode 5T01, but will be easy to spot anyway as it will be the only train moving on the network at that time of night.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Not on RTT, but they do show up on signalling diagrams. Look at Traksy or OpenTrainTimes maps. The test runs usually appear as headcode 5T01, but will be easy to spot anyway as it will be the only train moving on the network at that time of night.

Why don't they appear on RTT? Are they being done under a possession?

 

[Bow Fell]

Why don't they appear on RTT? Are they being done under a possession?

There’s no schedule input (at the moment) when there is more daytime testing there will be.

They run under an SPZ (signal protected zone) so there aren’t any other trains in the vicinity, and the test runs aren’t going to delay anything so they don’t really need a schedule.

Also once they come off, they basically do as many test runs as possible. On one night there were 25/26 runs to Kirkby/Walton Jn and back, it’s just a case how many runs can be accommodated outside of service hours.

 

[adrock1976]

Is it planned for the 777s to be split into 2 separate fleets at Kirkdale (north of Mersey routes via Link Line) and Birkenhead (for south of the Mersey and the Wirral via the Loop Line) with each depot having a dedicated allocation?

 

[390112A]

I always assumed that the depot at Kirkdale was used for units to run the Northern Line services daily, and the Birkenhead Depot used for the Wirral Line daily, with units swapped regularly as heavy maintenance was carried out at Birkenhead however, I believe the news was that with the introduction of the class 777s Kirdale would become the heavy maintenance depot. I am happy to be corrected

 

[MR-507508]

I always assumed that the depot at Kirkdale was used for units to run the Northern Line services daily, and the Birkenhead Depot used for the Wirral Line daily, with units swapped regularly as heavy maintenance was carried out at Birkenhead however, I believe the news was that with the introduction of the class 777s Kirdale would become the heavy maintenance depot. I am happy to be corrected

This broadly speaking is correct for the Northern Line. Kirkdale depot and Southport are the two locations where units start out on the Northern line. For the Wirral, most units start from various stabling locations including Rock Ferry, Birkenhead Central siding, New Brighton, West Kirby-(on Sundays) and Hooton P1-(weekdays and Sundays). The units stored overnight at these locations are composed of either units which had worked on the Wirral lines the previous day until the end of service or units which have come from Kirkdale depot the evening before. Some of these units travelling from Kirkdale depot had previously been working on the Wirral line that same day, before returning to Kirkdale depot very briefly in the early evening prior to travelling back again onto the Wirral later the same evening to be stabled overnight.

Each weekday and Saturday, only 6 units start out from Birkenhead North depot (zero on Sundays) and 1 x 3 car unit (6 car on Saturday) comes from Kirkdale depot in the early morning to work the West Kirby line.

Compared to Kirkdale depot, the stabling capacity at North depot is much smaller and there are a number of units (usually around 6-8 units) at North depot in regular maintenance at any one time. It is correct with the 777s, Kirkdale depot will become the home for the maintenance of the 777s.

There are many frequent moves between the Wirral and Northern line which take place mainly in the evening, after services drop to half hourly, except on the Southport-Hunts Cross line, and with the usual weekday timetable in place.
On a typical weeknight (usual timetable in place) 9 units would transfer over from the Wirral to Kirkdale depot and usually 8 units transfer back onto the Wirral (2 x 6 car moves to Birkenhead North depot, 1 x 6 car move to New Brighton and 1 x 6 car move to Hooton P1) between around 8-10 pm. This time of evening Liverpool Central can get quite congested with all the ECS moves taking place in between the Northern line passenger services. A total of 9 moves between the two lines in the space of a few hours.
Good to watch though at Central this time of evening as passengers on the platform look really confused as the units reverse at Central, with them thinking its their train to take them to one of the Northern line destinations.

 

[73001]

This broadly speaking is correct for the Northern Line. Kirkdale depot and Southport are the two locations where units start out on the Northern line. For the Wirral, most units start from various stabling locations including Rock Ferry, Birkenhead Central siding, New Brighton, West Kirby-(on Sundays) and Hooton P1-(weekdays and Sundays). The units stored overnight at these locations are composed of either units which had worked on the Wirral lines the previous day until the end of service or units which have come from Kirkdale depot the evening before. Some of these units travelling from Kirkdale depot had previously been working on the Wirral line that same day, before returning to Kirkdale depot very briefly in the early evening prior to travelling back again onto the Wirral later the same evening to be stabled overnight.

Each weekday and Saturday, only 6 units start out from Birkenhead North depot (zero on Sundays) and 1 x 3 car unit (6 car on Saturday) comes from Kirkdale depot in the early morning to work the West Kirby line.

Compared to Kirkdale depot, the stabling capacity at North depot is much smaller and there are a number of units (usually around 6-8 units) at North depot in regular maintenance at any one time. It is correct with the 777s, Kirkdale depot will become the home for the maintenance of the 777s.

There are many frequent moves between the Wirral and Northern line which take place mainly in the evening, after services drop to half hourly, except on the Southport-Hunts Cross line, and with the usual weekday timetable in place.
On a typical weeknight (usual timetable in place) 9 units would transfer over from the Wirral to Kirkdale depot and usually 8 units transfer back onto the Wirral (2 x 6 car moves to Birkenhead North depot, 1 x 6 car move to New Brighton and 1 x 6 car move to Hooton P1) between around 8-10 pm. This time of evening Liverpool Central can get quite congested with all the ECS moves taking place in between the Northern line passenger services. A total of 9 moves between the two lines in the space of a few hours.
Good to watch though at Central this time of evening as passengers on the platform look really confused as the units reverse at Central, with them thinking its their train to take them to one of the Northern line destinations.

Thank you for taking the time to provide that comprehensive answer... does anyone know, are all the swaps to keep units off the loop line as much as possible to stop wheel wear? Will the new trains be similarly treated or are the bogies shorter and so less likely to wear as fast?

 

[Skie]

Different types of maintenance are done at different depots. Overall wheel wear is probably a consideration but remember Wirral line trains essentially turn themselves via the loop so it does even it out - the trains aren’t really turning right all day.

 

[Steelwheels]

The bogies on the new rolling stock are shorter thus reducing wear (hopefully!) on tight bends including the Wirral loop, there is a system on the loop where devices are fitted to inject a lubricant to try and stop the excessive wear on the track.

 

[Pacef8]

Is the loop the tightest turning circle in the uk and one that presents a unique problem ?.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Is the loop the tightest turning circle in the uk and one that presents a unique problem ?.

No and no, but it is tight enough that wheelsets (on the existing trains at least) will suffer excessive wear with repeated circuits, so mitigation (as mentioned above) is in place to minimise this.

There's been a few posts suggesting that the tunnels have severely restricted clearances but AFAIK this is NOT the case- the curvature is more of a problem than the loading gauge, all Merseyrail tunnels including the stock transfer line can fit a class 66, so aren't overly restrictive.

 

[Pacef8]

It was the curvature that i was thinking about rather than the head space . Everyone will know that wheel squeal between lime street and central.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

It was the curvature that i was thinking about rather than the head space . Everyone will know that wheel squeal between lime street and central.

I know, I just added the paragraph about clearances because it seems to be one of those "railway myths" that crops up a fair bit, rather like the one about Pacers being barred from 3rd-rail areas.

I think there are a few tighter curves on the network than the ones underneath Liverpool, the Looe branch springs to mind.

 

[Skie]

I think the loop is fairly unique for being an almost constant curve through its entire 2 mile length.

 

[Mordac]

I think the loop is fairly unique for being an almost constant curve through its entire 2 mile length.

I wonder how it compares to the Glasgow Subway (which of course is not mainline, and has a different track gauge).

 

[Skie]

I wonder how it compares to the Glasgow Subway (which of course is not mainline, and has a different track gauge).

Despite what the map shows (Tube style) it actually has a few right turns for clockwise trains! It’s more oval overall, with some straight sections.

 

[Vespa]

This is what the loop track looks like.

 

[bazzoh]

Looks like one could be out now! Screen shot taken at 21:49 today

 

[shakey1961]

777 003 recorded at Birkdale on its way back to Liverpool. Had to stop for a red signal. Very quiet pulling away. The technician at the front waved to me LOLOL (excuse my inner 5yo LOL)

 

[shakey1961]

And now we're going for a test on the Wirral