Merseyrail Class 777 introduction updates

[LA50041]

Getting tired of waiting to see a 777 doing a test run. Someone give out some information

I’m sure Merseyrail will let us all know when they’re ready.
There will be fitters etc to be trained before the units go into service otherwise there’s nobody to fix In case of breakdown

 

[_toommm_]

Getting tired of waiting to see a 777 doing a test run. Someone give out some information

It was pretty securely hidden today at the depot - nowhere to be seen on the outside roads.

Until a STP path goes in, or some information gets leaked from Merseyrail, I suspect that's all there is until such time in the future.

 

[CHAPS2034]

Getting tired of waiting to see a 777 doing a test run. Someone give out some information

Why the impatience?

There will be a host of checks to do on the train and staff familiarisation will be required (both engineering and drivers) before it turns a wheel on the network. As it will be a new type, there will be additional checks to ensure it is safe to run

Only then will it come out and as someone has suggested, it will run in a possession at night no doubt checking things like any interference issues with signalling.

So chill out and wait. It's not like buying a new car and jumping in it for a spin straight away.

 

[TheSel]

Doing the first test run(s) at night isn't a valid way of checking how effective the sun-visors are.

Doing the first test run(s) when only one unit is available isn't a valid way of testing the multi-unit capability.

Just saying!

 

[jamesst]

Getting tired of waiting to see a 777 doing a test run. Someone give out some information

Well theres still not even any training package agreed with aslef for the drivers so get yourself ready for a long wait.

 

[CHAPS2034]

Doing the first test run(s) at night isn't a valid way of checking how effective the sun-visors are.

Just saying!

Does the sun ever shine on Merseyside - don't seem to have seen much of it this last week...

Well theres still not even any training package agreed with aslef for the drivers so get yourself ready for a long wait.

Oh dear...

 

[Skie]

Logically with such a new train with a fairly unique design, they may want to walk it around the network like TFM recently did with the new Metrolink line. Bit harder to do with the 3rd rail involved, so it’ll probably just be on an incredibly slow speed coast with some method of recovery following closely behind.

And as the only method of recovery is another 777 (or the barrier wagons) I can’t see it nipping out for a bit. They need to test everything else first *and* get all the depot staff familiar with it in case it goes pop on the first test and to do the usual unit prep properly. Completely new systems and entirely different concepts from 41 year old units with all the processing power of a valve radio.

 

[danbarnstall]

Getting tired of waiting to see a 777 doing a test run. Someone give out some information

Someone let slip to me today it has done depot shunts at night.

 

[jamesst]

Someone let slip to me today it has done depot shunts at night.

It did one brief one in broad daylight last week!

 

[L401CJF]

Getting tired of waiting to see a 777 doing a test run. Someone give out some information

I'm sure when somebody knows something, it'll be posted here. I'm sure there's plenty of staff training to be done first before it can do any test runs, presumably they'll have to give the engineers some training, those who will be driving it for the test runs will need to be trained and signed off which would take a good few weeks I'd imagine.

Is it even certified to run on the National Rail Network yet?

 

[M28361M]

Looks like the press have been shown around the new train. The Liverpool Echo has a report, some more details and pictures at https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/onboard-new-merseyrail-trains-things-17644780

The first new train to hit our region's railways have been opened to its first visitors ahead of being brought into service later this year.

The ECHO was among the first allowed inside the new trains for the Merseyrail network, bought by the Liverpool City Region Combined Authority at a cost of £460m.

Custom-built by manufacturer Stadler in Switzerland, the new trains will be tested on our region's tracks before staff are trained on them and they enter service later in the year.

Metro mayor Steve Rotheram said this morning at Merseyrail's Kirkdale depot that the new trains heralded a move towards his aim of creating "a London-style integrated transport system" as he promised announcement on the future of the region's bus network next month.

Radio City and Heart North West also have videos on their twitter pages:
https://twitter.com/HeartNWNews/status/1222147093562830850
https://twitter.com/RadioCityNews/status/1222150241530580994

 

[Statto]

At least the seats look like they align with the windows a lot better than the current 507/8 stock

 

[M28361M]

Some pictures have been posted on the private "Mersey Railways" Facebook group, showing 508141 shunting 777003 around Kirkdale depot, using some sort of coupling adaptor. Apparently back inside the shed now though, in case anyone was thinking of going for a look.

 

[notadriver]

Everything is getting more and more complex with electronics so much more to go wrong, as technology advances it can be difficult to maintain outdated electronics. The main issue with computers is the amount of wiring involved. I am an enthusiast but dont have much to do with trains, however I have plenty of experience working on buses and the older buses are much more reliable than the newer purely due to simplicity.

A number of the newer buses we have at our depot are suffering from lots of electrical faults. One of the main causes of problems is broken wires - one broken wire can leave the bus completely dead and can often take days or even weeks to find. Another problem which has cropped up recently on buses only a couple of years old is corrosion in the mass of wiring looms which are very complex, can take weeks again to work out exactly whats causing the faults, and usually the entire loom has to be replaced which is extremely complex. Another regular problem is sensor faults. Everything relying on data being fed into computers from various sensors, one dodgy sensor feeding false information causes a huge mass of problems. Its never ending! I am aware trains are built to a higher standard than a bus (in theory) but the same applies. The issue also applies to some cars from the last 15 or so years.

Just a thought, but the first point raised by a friend of mine who is a fitter at another TOC, and to be fair something that had crossed my mind also - in years to come the sliding step feature could become a problem when wear and tear sets in, the components get covered in muck, start to corrode etc, He said he can see them failing. If one jams in the 'out' position he would imagine it would trigger an interlock fault and render the train unable to move - possibly able to manually put it back in place and lock it(?), but presumably the train would then have to be taken out of service. Nice feature to have and definitely needed, but another complexity. I am aware that the class 390s have folding steps although a completely different design, I'm not sure if they have caused any issues over the years but somebody might know.

I hope the 777 proves to be the big success it has been promised to be, and as much as I love the old stock, it is overdue.

I think electric trains tend to be quite reliable compared to diesel trains (or buses) which have more moving parts to go wrong (in theory).

 

[samuelmorris]

I think electric trains tend to be quite reliable compared to diesel trains (or buses) which have more moving parts to go wrong (in theory).

More reliable yes, particularly as they age, but in the early years there isn't actually a huge difference. Currently with Northern for example, the diesel 195s are more reliable than their electric counterparts the 331s.

 

[S&CLER]

More reliable yes, particularly as they age, but in the early years there isn't actually a huge difference. Currently with Northern for example, the diesel 195s are more reliable than their electric counterparts the 331s.

Does the sea air on Merseyside, especially on the West Kirby, New Brighton and Southport lines, increase corrosion? It was once calculated that the hand-waxing practice in use at Birkenhead since Mersey Railway days extended the life of stock by a year compared with acid solution washing.

 

[tricky18jan]

Some pictures have been posted on the private "Mersey Railways" Facebook group, showing 508141 shunting 777003 around Kirkdale depot, using some sort of coupling adaptor. Apparently back inside the shed now though, in case anyone was thinking of going for a look.

Seen both of these this morning 10am at Kirkdale. Tucked away at 1300 when I passed again.

Announcement made to look to the right to see the new train as well

 

[L401CJF]

Some pictures have been posted on the private "Mersey Railways" Facebook group, showing 508141 shunting 777003 around Kirkdale depot, using some sort of coupling adaptor. Apparently back inside the shed now though, in case anyone was thinking of going for a look.

I had heard from an internal source 508134 is low on miles before its due a major exam, the railtour last Sunday was supposed to be its last passenger working. My source said it is to be used to rescue the 777 if it fails on testing using a coupler adapter, but I doubted it would be true.508134 has been on limited mileage for a few months, its only been used when absolutely necessary and on peak hour workings only for the most part. It's now sat outside North depot and has been since Sunday.

Maybe it is true given the recent sighting in Kirkdale!

 

[samuelmorris]

That seems a little early to be retiring a unit given how long it'll be before the first 777 is in service - is there a sufficient surplus of units to do without one for a few months?

 

[L401CJF]

That seems a little early to be retiring a unit given how long it'll be before the first 777 is in service - is there a sufficient surplus of units to do without one for a few months?

I thought exactly that, it's only been on peak extras for the last few months anyway and not been out every day anyway. I think they're trying to afford forking out for its major exam which is looming. I have got a copy of the paperwork showing its only to be used when absolutely necessary and must only be used in peak hours due to limited mileage but I'm not allowed to post it. There are a few other units down as low mileage too but 134 was on 'critical'

 

[Meerkat]

I thought exactly that, it's only been on peak extras for the last few months anyway and not been out every day anyway. I think they're trying to afford forking out for its major exam which is looming. I have got a copy of the paperwork showing its only to be used when absolutely necessary and must only be used in peak hours due to limited mileage but I'm not allowed to post it. There are a few other units down as low mileage too but 134 was on 'critical'

That sounds a lot like the mk3s on Anglia.....that went well.

 

[shakey1961]

Sorry for my previous post. There is quite obviously a lot more to do that I can ever dream of to get a new unit out on the rails even just for some tests. I just go and ride them and try and take as much interest in them as is possible for a layperson.

Oh well, keep my ears and eyes peeled.

 

[AllanA1981]

The Echo is reporting Mersrail today that driver training is about to start and that we will start seeing the training runs across the network in the coming weeks.

 

[Skie]

The echo are also claiming all of the new trains come with batteries that will allow them to trundle to places like Skem. I'd take anything from them with a pinch of salt.

 

[Statto]

How many seats do they have compared to a 507/508, i know the 507/508s are back to back with aisle facing seats next to the doors?

 

[samuelmorris]

How many seats do they have compared to a 507/508, i know the 507/508s are back to back with aisle facing seats next to the doors?

182 versus 192 on the old units.

 

[M28361M]

Serco Rail Technical Services has been awarded the contract to test the new trains.

Serco’s Derby based Rail Technical Services (SRTS) has been awarded a contract by Swiss rolling stock manufacturer, Stadler Rail, to undertake a programme of testing services for the new fleet of trains for the Merseyrail network.

Stadler Rail is delivering a fleet of 52 EMU (Class 777) trains, including ongoing maintenance services for Merseytravel. Once testing is complete later this year, the fleet will be rolled out gradually over the course of 12 months. SRTS are undertaking type testing activities at the Wildenrath test track in Germany and at the new Liverpool Kirkdale depot operated by Stadler Rail Service UK. SRTS engineers have delivered and fitted instrumentation to the first unit and are carrying out a range of tests including dynamic ride performance, Electromagnetic compatibility (EMC), braking, Wheel Slide Protection (WSP) and noise. This involves working as an integrated team with Stadler to a tight schedule, including collection and analysis of test conditions and results to support system verification and validation.

SRTS is also supporting testing activities for Stadler with other UK new fleet projects (Greater Anglia FLIRT BMU and the Glasgow METRO EMU).

SRTS is also providing independent assurance services to Merseyrail, ensuring potential risks to new fleet introduction have been identified, particularly relating to system interfaces (e.g. vehicle/track, vehicle/power) and are being managed effectively.

https://www.serco.com/uk/media-and-...ct-to-test-new-merseyrail-emu-fleet-of-trains

No timescales for testing revealed here, but definitely a step closer to seeing 777003 venturing out.

 

[childwallblues]

I have read that the training runs will be on the Kirkby route.

 

[jamesst]

The Echo is reporting Mersrail today that driver training is about to start and that we will start seeing the training runs across the network in the coming weeks.

The guards agreement is STILL not finalised. Theres STILL no agreement for driver training.
Any imminent test runs will be done by driver managers, overnight and just on the Kirkby line.

 

[shakey1961]

The guards agreement is STILL not finalised. Theres STILL no agreement for driver training.
Any imminent test runs will be done by driver managers, overnight and just on the Kirkby line.

Agreement after agreement. They're paid to drive and look after a train. There are many people out there (including me) who would like a job, on half what these people get paid, and would gladly run the trains.

Just get learning how to drive and look after them.