Merseyrail Class 777 introduction updates

[Energy]

It can’t do all 3 at the same time. All units have some batteries for depot moves, but for mainline running the extra batteries go in the same space that the rectifiers for 25kv would go.

So they can do:

• 3rd rail (as delivered)
• 3rd rail + mainline batteries
• 3rd rail + 25kv overhead

Is there a need though for all 3 at the same time?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Is there a need though for all 3 at the same time?

Probably not. It would be possible (if not ideal) to diagram different sets differently if they ended up implementing both.

 

[td97]

I believe it is currently 750v 3rd rail + option for batteries.

Tri mode would expand the flexibility of this class.
3rd rail, battery and pantograph.

All units have some batteries for depot moves, but for mainline running the extra batteries go in the same space that the rectifiers for 25kv would go.

It was reported last year that batteries are no longer being considered. Which is a shame as they would have been useful for the Skelmersdale extension (and Lancashire CC funding it)

Battery trial on the class 777 has been pulled, too much heat from the batteries and not enough room to fit cooling equipment without a redesign of the body to increase space.

 

[D365]

It was reported last year that batteries are no longer being considered. Which is a shame as they would have been useful for the Skelmersdale extension (and Lancashire CC funding it)

I missed that post, thanks for providing the quote. Cooling of the batteries was one of the key issues identified in the Class 379 IPEMU trial, I imagine that rolling stock manufacturers are left to find their own solutions.

 

[Vespa]

So 3rd rail+25kv pantograph is the only feasible way to go until battery technology improves.

 

[urbophile]

Do we know if the new units are arriving on Merseyside as scheduled or is there a significant delay because of Covid-19?

 

[Skie]

Battery trial is still going ahead. The LCR have even recently allocated a significant chunk of cash for it to be expanded. Think the wibble about it being cancelled was because Stadler initially hit some snags and had to delay equipping a unit with batteries until later in the production run.

 

[gka472l]

I'm assuming some testing is/will be being done using OHL at some point?? as with the 707's (for example) which would never see OHL in their normal use?

 

[Skie]

None of them will have pans or the electrical equipment fitted, they’re just capable of having it fitted at some point. Stadler might want to test them but anything like that would be done over there.

 

[Energy]

They will almost certainly fit a pantograph to atleast one train to test it although the pantograph may be removed after they know it works, happens on most units as the manufacturer and ROSCO will want to know it works incase they need it.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Do we know if the new units are arriving on Merseyside as scheduled or is there a significant delay because of Covid-19?

Apparently 777 007 has been seen on the continent on the way here.

 

[DBS92042]

Apparently 777 007 has been seen on the continent on the way here.

Spotted this on RTT for this Wednesday

Realtime Trains - 6X29 0244 Dollands Moor Sdgs to Kirkdale C.S.

Realtime Trains provides live realtime running information for the Great British railway network using open data.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

 

[gka472l]

Apparently 777 007 has been seen on the continent on the way here.

HTH

 

[Skie]

They will almost certainly fit a pantograph to atleast one train to test it although the pantograph may be removed after they know it works, happens on most units as the manufacturer and ROSCO will want to know it works incase they need it.

No ROSCO involved here. But it's still a sensible thing to test to at least prove that what the manufacturer claims can be done. Wouldnt be fun finding out in 10 years time after an extension to Skem goes live!

 

[Energy]

No ROSCO involved here. But it's still a sensible thing to test to at least prove that what the manufacturer claims can be done. Wouldnt be fun finding out in 10 years time after an extension to Skem goes live!

Good point, I'll rephrase it as 'the owner of the units' as I doubt Merseytravel will be happy if they find out they can't actually install a pantograph in 10 years time.

 

[DJH1971]

HTH

Any news on when it will reach the UK?

 

[Vespa]

Any news on when it will reach the UK?

Tommorrow I believe.

Realtime Trains - 6X29 0244 Dollands Moor Sdgs to Kirkdale C.S.

Realtime Trains provides live realtime running information for the Great British railway network using open data.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

 

[43096]

HTH

Nice haulage for it too, though shame about the graffiti on the 183.

 

[Gareth]

So 3rd rail+25kv pantograph is the only feasible way to go until battery technology improves.

Or we can just extend using the existing 3rd rail system if our erstwhile friend 'common sense' were to return in triumph once more.

 

[urbophile]

Or we can just extend using the existing 3rd rail system if our erstwhile friend 'common sense' were to return in triumph once more.

Wouldn't common sense dictate that as much of the current third rail network as possible should be converted to overhead to be compatible with the national system?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Wouldn't common sense dictate that as much of the current third rail network as possible should be converted to overhead to be compatible with the national system?

No, because Merseyrail's strength is in being simple and self-contained.

 

[MR-507508]

No, because Merseyrail's strength is in being simple and self-contained.

I do wonder whether any extension to the MR network could ultimately affect the reliability of services as lines become longer such as Ormskirk-Preston, increasing the chance of disruption.

 

[Liverpool 507]

I do wonder whether any extension to the MR network could ultimately affect the reliability of services as lines become longer such as Ormskirk-Preston, increasing the chance of disruption.

Depends whether lines such as Ormskirk to Preston would retain the Northern service.

If that is the case, the Ormskirk to Preston line would need redoubling, especially if Merseyrail increase the number of trains down this line, if this would ever happen in the future.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I do wonder whether any extension to the MR network could ultimately affect the reliability of services as lines become longer such as Ormskirk-Preston, increasing the chance of disruption.

That's one reason I favour self-contained extensions, e.g. to Burscough Bridge rather than Preston.

There won't (back on topic!) be enough 777s for major extensions anyway, that would require an additional order.

 

[507021]

That's one reason I favour self-contained extensions, e.g. to Burscough Bridge rather than Preston.

There won't (back on topic!) be enough 777s for major extensions anyway, that would require an additional order.

There's barely enough for the existing network, IMO.

 

[Liverpool 507]

There's barely enough for the existing network, IMO.

I can understand why 52 have been ordered. Working out how many units would be out on the Southport - Hunts Cross and Ormskirk lines with the '777' daytime timetable in place, only 9 units will be required, compared to 10 daily for the former and 5 required, compared to 6 for the latter. It would be interesting how many less would be on the Wirral Line during the day time.

 

[507021]

I can understand why 52 have been ordered. Working out how many units would be out on the Southport - Hunts Cross and Ormskirk lines with the '777' daytime timetable in place, only 9 units will be required, compared to 10 daily for the former and 5 required, compared to 6 for the latter. It would be interesting how many less would be on the Wirral Line during the day time.

Oh right, that makes sense then.

 

[Bow Fell]

Once they are delivered and in service (well known issues to be ironed out of course) there will be a major timetable recast taking advantage of the improved acceleration. 52 units?! Plenty!

 

[Liverpool 507]

Once they are delivered and in service (well known issues to be ironed out of course) there will be a major timetable recast taking advantage of the improved acceleration. 52 units?! Plenty!

The new timetable will be the most notable on the Southport - Hunts Cross and Chester lines. One would hope that the 60MPH line speed on straight sections would be increased to 70MPH, but that's for another thread.

 

[MR-507508]

Once they are delivered and in service (well known issues to be ironed out of course) there will be a major timetable recast taking advantage of the improved acceleration. 52 units?! Plenty!

Has driver training started yet of the new trains?