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Merseyrail Class 777 introduction updates

yorkie

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Just a gentle reminder this is a Traction & Rolling Stock thread to discuss Merseyrail Class 777s

The forum has plenty of spare capacity for threads to discuss any other topic

Thanks:)
 
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Peter0124

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Does anyone have an estimate as to when these new units will enter service and replace most if not all of the current 507/508 stock?
 

Ribbleman

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Entry into service is now unlikely before the end of the year. Mileage accumulation runs are taking place and ORR approval of the 777s has been received. Negotiations with the RMT about the future role of guards is continuing. After that, ASLEF will be involved in negotiations. Once agreements are reached crew training can start.

There was an arrangement made for 14 x Class 507 to remain in use during peak periods until Network Rail have completed some track and signalling alterations. As of last March that was thought to be about 2 years hence but that was an approximate estimate subject to the rate of progress.
 
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507020

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And what has happened to the other 777's due to arrive here?
They were meant to be being held at the factory until there is stabling capacity to accept more here, but that can only happen once the ones at Kirkdale and the ones at Warrington Old sidings have entered service and a large batch of 508s can be scrapped.

What I want to know now is, I was just told at Birkdale station that there has been a 777 on display at Hooton for members of the public to walk around, but I don’t know anything else about this.
 

Chris217

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Does anyone know how far Stadler has progressed into the 777 fleet,and how many sets are waiting to be delivered at the moment.
 

86247

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Does anyone know how many 777s are on kirkdale as I counted 7 on there this afternoon , but could only identify 3.
 

Class83

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Entry into service is now unlikely before the end of the year. Mileage accumulation runs are taking place and ORR approval of the 777s has been received. Negotiations with the RMT about the future role of guards is continuing. After that, ASLEF will be involved in negotiations. Once agreements are reached crew training can start.

There was an arrangement made for 14 x Class 507 to remain in use during peak periods until Network Rail have completed some track and signalling alterations. As of last March that was thought to be about 2 years hence but that was an approximate estimate subject to the rate of progress.
What's the point of all the driving around at night if not to train the crews?
 

Class83

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Isn’t it to prove the reliability of the trains?
Yes, but surely the processes could happen together, each train need to be driven X miles to prove reliability, each driver needs to drive Y miles to prove competence. Rather than have depot staff drive them up and down, then once that's done have the regular drivers drive them up and down for training, instead if the regular drivers do the reliability testing as they learn to drive them.
 

irish_rail

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I'd be interested to know how staff feel about these, as a driver I wouldn't like to go from driving something fairly decent to what is essentially a Tram. And as for the see through screen between the public and the drivers cab
......good luck with that one!
 

ashkeba

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I'd be interested to know how staff feel about these, as a driver I wouldn't like to go from driving something fairly decent to what is essentially a Tram.
Have you confused Stadler Metro and Tango?
 

chiltern trev

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Yes, but surely the processes could happen together, each train need to be driven X miles to prove reliability, each driver needs to drive Y miles to prove competence. Rather than have depot staff drive them up and down, then once that's done have the regular drivers drive them up and down for training, instead if the regular drivers do the reliability testing as they learn to drive them.

Sounds plausible but there are contractual and ownership reasons. Until each unit has passed the relevant miles reliability test the unit is still a Stadler unit and Stadler's (factory/build) problem. Not a good idea at all to start mixing different stages.

Plus the drivers terms and conditions for operating and training on the units are not yet sorted and waiting on whatever is happening re the guards.
 

Meerkat

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Sounds plausible but there are contractual and ownership reasons. Until each unit has passed the relevant miles reliability test the unit is still a Stadler unit and Stadler's (factory/build) problem. Not a good idea at all to start mixing different stages.

Plus the drivers terms and conditions for operating and training on the units are not yet sorted and waiting on whatever is happening re the guards.
Don’t see why “we will provide X drivers for testing” couldn’t be in the procurement contract.
But operationally it would be tricky - you need extra drivers, but without knowing exactly when, how long for etc
 

AlexNL

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I'd be interested to know how staff feel about these, as a driver I wouldn't like to go from driving something fairly decent to what is essentially a Tram. And as for the see through screen between the public and the drivers cab
......good luck with that one!
I expect that the majority of drivers will see the new trains as a significant upgrade, as they'll be getting a much more modern and comfortable unit to work with.

Tram-trains is what Stadler will be delivering to Wales for the South Wales Metro, those units (Citylinks) look nothing like the Metro for Merseyrail (and Tyne&Wear Metro).
 

507020

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When they've accumulated enough miles, and crewing has been agreed, and crews trained.
777010 has now accumulated enough miles to enter service and 777008 isn’t far off. 777014 may be the next unit to run in daytime. I wouldn’t be surprised if some of the earlier units to be tested e.g. 777003 may also be ready.

Have there been any discussions with unions that will allow their introduction to proceed this year?
 

jamesst

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777010 has now accumulated enough miles to enter service and 777008 isn’t far off. 777014 may be the next unit to run in daytime. I wouldn’t be surprised if some of the earlier units to be tested e.g. 777003 may also be ready.

Have there been any discussions with unions that will allow their introduction to proceed this year?

Theres pretty much not a hope in hell there will be one in passenger service this year.
 

Gareth

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Has there ever been a rolling stock procurement as long as this? The whole process must've been going on for a decade or so now. We may as well start tentively planning the 777's replacement at this rate.
 

Nicholas Lewis

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Has there ever been a rolling stock procurement as long as this? The whole process must've been going on for a decade or so now. We may as well start tentively planning the 777's replacement at this rate.
317's were left languishing for over a year while BR and unions sorted out DOO agreements.

Theres pretty much not a hope in hell there will be one in passenger service this year.
Steve Rotherham is hopeful they will get one in use by end of the year although seems more interested in talking about the battery option but not much use if the trains aren't in service.

https://www.itv.com/news/granada/2021-07-20/why-new-merseyrail-trains-are-running-late

Bosses admit the scheme is taking much longer than they wanted but are hopeful they can get the £500m service on track to begin operating by the end of the year.
 

Skie

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Steve Rotherham is hopeful they will get one in use by end of the year although seems more interested in talking about the battery option but not much use if the trains aren't in service.

Likely because there are union discussions ongoing so it'd be a bad idea to prejudice them by flapping his mouthparts to the press. The battery stuff is an easy win, and is getting plenty of attention from other bits of the industry, it really could be a game changer in terms of expanding local networks.
 

Nicholas Lewis

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Likely because there are union discussions ongoing so it'd be a bad idea to prejudice them by flapping his mouthparts to the press. The battery stuff is an easy win, and is getting plenty of attention from other bits of the industry, it really could be a game changer in terms of expanding local networks.
Agree the battery option has alot of potential and got to give them credit of having a vision about how they can deploy them to improve journey opportunities.

The IR element remains the most volatile element as ever in these projects.
 

Jamesrob637

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So will it be a TPE 2017 i.e we see one run close to New Year's Eve for the sake of "we ran one in 2021?"
 

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