Merseyrail: funding for Headbolt Lane and St James stations

[stuart100100]

I believe the bus service from Skelmersdale to Liverpool is painfully slow as well. A train would really make a difference for commuters.

About 1 hour 40 minutes end to end off peak....although the bus calls at Ormskirk bus station so no doubt people change there for the train into the city centre

 

[Trainer2]

I believe the bus service from Skelmersdale to Liverpool is painfully slow as well. A train would really make a difference for commuters.

I agree
But I very much doubt Mersey region funding will be spent on a scheme that will mainly benefit West Lancashire council residents.

 

[Baxenden Bank]

The latest proposals for further detailed study that I saw suggested:
Under the M58 at Whiteledge Road, as mentioned above.
Across Thorn Island.
Across Bone Island.
Terminating at the old college site west of Southway and south of Yewdale.

So not actually going to the town centre or the new college. Not convenient for all the tourists flocking to the town, but plenty of provision for park and ride. Poor connections with local bus services unless they are diverted but the last time I looked the bus service in Skem was pretty dire anyway. The yogic flyers have their own means of transport.

With all this in mind the site of the old college has been bought by Lancashire County Council (if I remember correctly).

From the Wigan direction you will turn right onto a new stub/branch to terminate at the new station.
From the Liverpool direction you will turn left onto a new stub/branch to terminate at the new station.
Whether that stub is a shared branch, single or double track, or two parallel independent lines, was to be determined.

As per previous posts a sensible design would see, if a through service is not provided, a simple cross platform interchange at a single island platform.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I agree
But I very much doubt Mersey region funding will be spent on a scheme that will mainly benefit West Lancashire council residents.

Merseyside PTE isn't funding it (though I'm not quite sure who is).

So not actually going to the town centre or the new college.

It's the Glenburn School site, which is very near the Concourse (Edit: It is where you're saying, I just double checked). The main bus station is also at the Concourse on that side, so even with it left alone it's reasonable for connections, but perhaps they will consider moving it onto the railway station site then it'll be even better.

There is a big plan for redevelopment of the centre (which is rather grim) so perhaps that will shift the centre a little towards the station.

It seems similar in terms of distance to Telford Central from its shopping centre which doesn't seem a major issue.

And to be fair it'll mostly be a traffic source, not a traffic sink. The Concourse is a fairly manky, decidedly dated small shopping centre, for example, there's little reason for anyone who doesn't live in Skem to use it (and if you want a retail job there's more going in Liverpool), and unlike say MK the centre isn't full of offices - there's the (again ageing) Co-op Bank site but not a lot else.

For what it's worth, I reckon to some extent if they renamed Upholland to Skelmersdale South, put in a big car park, extended Merseyrail to it and ran the buses to it, you'd get a fairly large chunk of the custom. However, this project is much better and still worth doing.

Not convenient for all the tourists flocking to the town

, but plenty of provision for park and ride

Like MK I suspect plenty of demand for that.

 

[Djgr]

I agree
But I very much doubt Mersey region funding will be spent on a scheme that will mainly benefit West Lancashire council residents.

I think there is no chance that Liverpool City Region will fund infrastructure outside of Liverpool City Region.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I think there is no chance that Liverpool City Region will fund infrastructure outside of Liverpool City Region.

I don't think anyone is asking them to do so. Though a split of Lancashire County Council into unitaries is looking near certain now - only a question of when - and that being the case, West Lancashire would be a very good fit for the LCR as it associates more to Liverpool than to Preston, so it could well end up doing by a different means.

 

[jamesst]

From speaking to the DBS shunter who works the Kirkby freight depot train -

the Skem extension (if it ever happens, he gives it 10% likelihood) will not be a Merseyrail extension and was told NR consultants had considered coming into Skem from the Wigan to Southport line as the area between was predominantly good terrain farm land.
He also mentioned NR are doing some freight improvement safety works around the points leading to the rail freight waste sidings which explains why all the trees have gone from the fence line around the siding gates.

A shunter at kirkby freight depot isn't going to know much more about that than the person on the street! Believe me I've worked on the railway for years and we're normally the last to find out anything!!

 

[Baxenden Bank]

Merseyside PTE isn't funding it (though I'm not quite sure who is).



It's the Glenburn School site, which is very near the Concourse (Edit: It is where you're saying, I just double checked). The main bus station is also at the Concourse on that side, so even with it left alone it's reasonable for connections, but perhaps they will consider moving it onto the railway station site then it'll be even better.

There is a big plan for redevelopment of the centre (which is rather grim) so perhaps that will shift the centre a little towards the station.

It seems similar in terms of distance to Telford Central from its shopping centre which doesn't seem a major issue.







Like MK I suspect plenty of demand for that.

To my mind 'adjacent' would be a bit closer than that. Around 400m as the crow flies, perhaps 700m as the paths lie. A choice of walking along busy roads with no footways or segregated paths. I'm not sure what time The Concourse closes but the alternative 24 hour pedestrian access to the bus station is from the north only, alongside the bus access road. From the south pedestrians are prohibited and deterred by the 'pebbles set in concrete' style of landscaping.

I accept in London and the like people may be prepared to walk similar distances, but busy urban streets full of life are different from leafy new towns.

 

[Trainer2]

I don't think anyone is asking them to do so. Though a split of Lancashire County Council into unitaries is looking near certain now - only a question of when - and that being the case, West Lancashire would be a very good fit for the LCR as it associates more to Liverpool than to Preston, so it could well end up doing by a different means.

This is a good point.
I assume the split will take place within the next 12 months?

 

[Fawkes Cat]

I don't think anyone is asking them to do so. Though a split of Lancashire County Council into unitaries is looking near certain now - only a question of when - and that being the case, West Lancashire would be a very good fit for the LCR as it associates more to Liverpool than to Preston, so it could well end up doing by a different means.

This is a good point.
I assume the split will take place within the next 12 months?

I think it's highly unlikely it will happen that soon. If nothing else, the usual approach is to establish a shadow authority 12 months before the formal reorganisation, and there's no sign of that being about to happen, so reorganisation is still at least a year or two off. As an example of the timeline, it's worth looking at what happened in Bucks: this from Wikipedia (and edited by me for relevance):

In March 2018 Sajid Javid, the Communities Secretary at the time, backed proposals to replace the county council and the four district councils (...) with a single unitary authority, named Buckinghamshire Council.(...) (T)he Buckinghamshire Structural Changes Order 2019 was enacted, which as of 1 April 2020 abolished the County Council and the four district councils and created a single district council as a unitary authority, called 'Buckinghamshire Council'.

(source https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buckinghamshire_County_Council)

 

[Bletchleyite]

To my mind 'adjacent' would be a bit closer than that. Around 400m as the crow flies, perhaps 700m as the paths lie. A choice of walking along busy roads with no footways or segregated paths. I'm not sure what time The Concourse closes but the alternative 24 hour pedestrian access to the bus station is from the north only, alongside the bus access road. From the south pedestrians are prohibited and deterred by the 'pebbles set in concrete' style of landscaping.

I accept in London and the like people may be prepared to walk similar distances, but busy urban streets full of life are different from leafy new towns.

It seems almost inconceivable that they will build the railway station without looking at access at all.

 

[snowball]

There's some information on this Wikipedia page, confirming what's been said above about the general policy:

Skelmersdale railway station - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

2017

In February 2017, Lancashire County Council confirmed that the preferred site for Skelmersdale railway station was the former site of Glenburn Sports College/Westbank Campus.[14] County Council Transport portfolio holder John Fillis said that the site "is big enough to provide a high quality station with scope to expand to meet future demand.".[15] By September, Merseytravel announced that they would be committing £765,000 to the study into the reopening, estimating that the station could be open within a decade with a lot of additional funding. Merseytravel's plan would also see a new station built at Headbolt Lane in Kirkby. It has been proposed a new station at Skelmersdale would act as the terminus for Merseyrail's Northern Line, with connections available to Wigan and Manchester. Initial estimates suggest that the scheme could cost around £300 million to develop.[16] On page 36 of the Liverpool City Region Combined Authority, Long Term Rail Strategy document of October 2017, it states that Merseytravel is currently working with Lancashire County Council and Network Rail to develop a plan to extend the Merseyrail network from Kirkby through to Skelmersdale, with work completed in 2019. They are considering 3rd rail electrification and other alternatives with a new station at Headbolt Lane to serve the Northwood area of Kirkby. The document on page 37 states two trials of electric 3rd rail/battery trains will be undertaken in 2020, this is one of the "alternatives".[17]

2019

Lancashire County Council approved a plan in May 2019 to commission an outline business case into reopening the station which will be presented to the government.[18]

2021

Merseytravel confirmed in March 2021 that talks continue between themselves, Lancashire County Council and other partners about Skelmersdale railway station, in the context of additional funding being made available about Headbolt Lane railway station further along the Kirkby branch[19]

 

[Djgr]

There's some information on this Wikipedia page, confirming what's been said above about the general policy:

Skelmersdale railway station - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

So basically Lancashire folk need to put their hands in their pockets and put their money where their mouth is!

 

[Baxenden Bank]

So basically Lancashire folk need to put their hands in their pockets and put their money where their mouth is!

I think the sensible ones first need to ask why it costs an expected £300 MILLION to build 2 miles of railway. Lets describe the route. Some farmland - fairly flat; Pimbo Bike Park - encroachment / relocation; existing bridge under the M58; four new bridge/s under two roundabouts at Thorn Island and Bone Island. Note that both are designed / built for grade separation, so you can lift the entire roundabout to east/west road levels to fit the railway underneath; sections of Whitledge Road to be either stopped up, made one way or shifted sideways to best accommodate the railway.

 

[Trainer2]

A large chunk of the estimated £300 million may be NR bureaucracy costs, consultant fees and contractor profits!

I dont see why a local authority or private investor could not tender it out to the wider construction industry to design (to NR standards) and build and then simply hand it over to network rail to operate and maintain.

 

[Ianno87]

I think the sensible ones first need to ask why it costs an expected £300 MILLION to build 2 miles of railway. Lets describe the route. Some farmland - fairly flat; Pimbo Bike Park - encroachment / relocation; existing bridge under the M58; four new bridge/s under two roundabouts at Thorn Island and Bone Island. Note that both are designed / built for grade separation, so you can lift the entire roundabout to east/west road levels to fit the railway underneath; sections of Whitledge Road to be either stopped up, made one way or shifted sideways to best accommodate the railway.

You're forgetting things like the upgrade and electrification of the existing railway (in addition to the new construction) power feeding arrangements, possibly the extra rolling stock needed, mitigations to any level crossings (can't remember if there are any), installation of proper signalling and track circuits to Kirkby (to replace the current token arrangement), de-construction of the platform at Headbolt Lane to permit through running, modification to the signalling at Sandhills, possession costs to Merseyrail, Northern and freight operators serving Knowsley, land purchase, the station and any road alterations,...and well you get the idea.

A large chunk of the estimated £300 million may be NR bureaucracy costs, consultant fees and contractor profits!

Wouldn't it be lovely if people worked for free and took on all the construction risk themselves.

I dont see why a local authority or private investor could not tender it out to the wider construction industry to design (to NR standards) and build and then simply hand it over to network rail to operate and maintain.

What exact costs would that save? Given that NR will be using exactly the same field of contractors in all likelihood.

 

[Corriman]

The plan is to build a new bus terminal at the proposed Skelmersdale station site. The location is very close to the Concourse and new town centre developments.
I had to laugh at the Skelmersdale South idea for Upholland station, which isn't even near Upholland never mind Skem.
A new station would be an absolute game changer for the town.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The plan is to build a new bus terminal at the proposed Skelmersdale station site. The location is very close to the Concourse and new town centre developments.
I had to laugh at the Skelmersdale South idea for Upholland station, which isn't even near Upholland never mind Skem.

It's at the bottom right corner of Skem. Near enough in Pimbo, in fact.

It's not as good as Skem Central or whatever it will be called, but with a Merseyrail quality service and a big car park it'd still have been well used.

It's indeed not in Upholland - it might be better named East Pimbo, and similarly Orrell isn't in Orrell and is probably better named Far Moor, Tontine or even Billinge. Yes, I know it's not in Billinge either, but the area is sometimes known as that - certainly Bispham Hall Scout Camp, which is quite close to the station, is generally considered to be in Billinge.

A new station would be an absolute game changer for the town.

Certainly. Potentially the start of considerable regeneration by easing access to employment in the Liverpool City Region (and potentially also making it a more attractive place to work), as it should have had in the first place. (The idea that New Towns could self-sustain for employment was always flawed, as people need employment that fits their skills, not just whatever is available, and similarly employers need the right skills, so in reality you get commuting both in and out, just as you do with MK which is just a bigger version of the same thing).

 

[mcnw35282]

CGI flythtough of proposed Headbolt Lane station

 

[Bletchleyite]

CGI flythtough of proposed Headbolt Lane station

Thanks.

I really don't understand the layout - it's bizarre - why not for example an island with a bay for quality interchange?

 

[Ianno87]

Thanks.

I really don't understand the layout - it's bizarre - why not for example an island with a bay for quality interchange?

Presumably the intention is that, long term, it doesn't need to be an interchange at all with extension to Skelmersdale.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Presumably the intention is that, long term, it doesn't need to be an interchange at all with extension to Skelmersdale.

An island wouldn't be a bad thing then either to be honest. You'd just not use (or fill in) the bay.

 

[mcnw35282]

Bit strange isn't it. If the long term goal is to extend merseyrail to skem, just build a 2 platform layout a la Ellesmere Port as a stop gap? Seems massively over engineered to me...

 

[Bletchleyite]

Bit strange isn't it. If the long term goal is to extend merseyrail to skem, just build a 2 platform layout a la Ellesmere Port as a stop gap? Seems massively over engineered to me...

I think because it requires an extra unit on the Kirkby line they need two platforms for Merseyrail as two units will be there at once. But they could, if going for the simple option, just build a normal 2 platform station with a level access "bridge" and a more temporary design of extension towards Wigan next to it. It's the "sticky out" Wigan platform I don't understand at all - before extending to Skem they are going to have to demolish it and relay the track.

 

[Ianno87]

An island wouldn't be a bad thing then either to be honest. You'd just not use (or fill in) the bay.

Bit strange isn't it. If the long term goal is to extend merseyrail to skem, just build a 2 platform layout a la Ellesmere Port as a stop gap? Seems massively over engineered to me...

I think because it requires an extra unit on the Kirkby line they need two platforms for Merseyrail as two units will be there at once. But they could, if going for the simple option, just build a normal 2 platform station with a level access "bridge" and a more temporary design of extension towards Wigan next to it. It's the "sticky out" Wigan platform I don't understand at all - before extending to Skem they are going to have to demolish it and relay the track.

Looks like the formation is basically two track, so plonking platforms either side is going to be a darn sight cheaper then an island (which will require eating into the embankment and associated earthworks for a track slue over a longer distance)

 

[Bletchleyite]

Looks like the formation is basically two track, so plonking platforms either side is going to be a darn sight cheaper then an island (which will require eating into the embankment and associated earthworks for a track slue over a longer distance)

Probably why (also some of the build might be possible with the line open?) - but why the odd layout for the Wigan side?

 

[Ianno87]

Probably why (also some of the build might be possible with the line open?) - but why the odd layout for the Wigan side?

Looks like the Wigan platform gets built on what becomes the Skelmersdale-bound track. Presumably less land take overall, rather than taking land for something that eventually becomes redundant/gets demolished.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Looks like the Wigan platform gets built on what becomes the Skelmersdale-bound track. Presumably less land take overall, rather than taking land for something that eventually becomes redundant/gets demolished.

Ah, that might explain it. Otherwise it just looks odd!

 

[Meerkat]

Bit of a trek from the ticket office to the Wigan platform, or round the end to the far platform waiting shelter!
Can’t say i am keen on them putting a car park on a public green space.
Who is it for? Shouldn’t be encouraging locals to drive as none of them are very far away and I can’t see who would drive from further away who wont be diverting from nearer stations with less service.

 

[dvfmlfc]

Back in the early 1970s, Skelmersdale was included in the proposed Merseyside county. I think it was left out to include Southport instead?

One wonders had Skem become part of Merseyside, would the rail extension the town so desperately needs and deserves have been installed by now? I think it would.

Merseyside PTE were (still are!) a pro-rail authority - a key policy was to transfer traffic from bus to rail where possible. Waterloo and Kirkby benefitted/suffered from these policies in the late 1970s.

Travelling from Kirkby to Rainford and beyond by train is a real experience of nothingness. Forget covid and its' efffects on the transport network, this route has suffered like crazy since the line was split in 1977 becoming the kind of branch line Beeching would have immediately shut down. It's so quiet. I don't doubt Merseytravel's commitment to the line, but could the same be said of Lancashire County Council? They were never that happy contributing financially towards the Maghull-Ormskirk section of that line in their jurisdiction, what has changed now? Time, as always, will tell.