Merseyrail: funding for Headbolt Lane and St James stations

[Bletchleyite]

Yes Upholland is on the extreme south east most corner but the site identified for the new station puts the other estates and all the residential areas within a roughly kilometre catchment radius.

Indeed. What I more meant was that Upholland would be (if Merseyrail served it) no worse for a bus interchange than Blaguegate/Old Skem - there's even a load of industrial land on which such an interchange could be plonked without upsetting anyone. However, a station most people can and will walk or cycle to is clearly preferable.

 

[Meerkat]

I thought the plan was to have a new central Skem terminus for both Liverpool and Manchester/Wigan services with a triangle in from the SE corner of the southern industrial estate?

 

[driver_m]

I take it none of you have seen the actual LCR documents which confirm that they are still looking at Battery fitment to the 777 stock. Which obviously would not require OLE or 3rd Rail. It’s in the same £172m pot as the stations themselves. The story that run sometime ago that Merseytravel weren’t considering batteries anymore has been rubbished by Tony Miles on the WNXX forum.

 

[M28361M]

Without having to trawl back through over 100 postings on this thread, since this original posting was made, what is the position regarding the funding requirements at this present moment in time?

See post number 78 by me - basically a package of funding of £172m has been approved, but as there are more projects on the list than actual funding available, it is not yet guaranteed that the two stations will go ahead.

 

[WatcherZero]

I take it none of you have seen the actual LCR documents which confirm that they are still looking at Battery fitment to the 777 stock. Which obviously would not require OLE or 3rd Rail. It’s in the same £172m pot as the stations themselves. The story that run sometime ago that Merseytravel weren’t considering batteries anymore has been rubbished by Tony Miles on the WNXX forum.

Was to be fitted to the 7th in class, that's now not gone ahead and apparently are only looking at self power for depot moves within non-electrified sidings at the moment. Any in service operation will require more substantial modifications than originally envisaged.

Probably why its been hived off the rolling stock procurement into a separate (presently unfunded) R&D program. They also appear to have set up a separate program for onboard Wi-Fi provision.

 

[frodshamfella]

The Skelmersdale situation shows just how disjointed and short-termist a lot of post-war planning was. Old Skem lost its link to Ormskirk via Westhead just as the New Town was being developed, and that would have been a natural choice to be part of Merseyrail given that the new town was built as over spill for Liverpool. That it then wasn't included in Merseyside in 1974 was the height of stupidity. Old Skem wasn't ideally placed for much of the new town but it wasn't short of space for a big car park and bus interchange. It might have complicated things at Ormskirk with the Preston line a bit though: the single long platform solution probably wouldn't have been possible.

I hadn't realised they shut the old Skelmersdale line while constructing the new town. How riddiculos !

 

[Bletchleyite]

I thought the plan was to have a new central Skem terminus for both Liverpool and Manchester/Wigan services with a triangle in from the SE corner of the southern industrial estate?

Yes, it is (if it ever happens).

 

[frodshamfella]

Does that happen though? I thought that the links had grown stronger with Wigan and Ormskirk rather than Liverpool? (which is a right pig on the bus?

Id still have thought their was a strong demand for Skelmersdale to Liverpool passengers .

 

[61653 HTAFC]

I hadn't realised they shut the old Skelmersdale line while constructing the new town. How riddiculos !

The two things might not have been exactly concurrent to each other, but they were close enough together that it doesn't look great in hindsight. But in the post-war years the car was considered the future, so new towns were built around that vision. That's one reason why Skelmersdale is such a peculiar place, with roundabouts up the wazoo!

 

[frodshamfella]

Yes, they probably have because of the poor public transport to Liverpool.

I suspect with a frequent and cheap train to Liverpool and late trains home 7 days a week, Skem people will soon switch to Liverpool for a night out!

You have a lot more going on in Liverpool too for entertainment concerts theatre etc.

 

[frodshamfella]

The two things might not have been exactly concurrent to each other, but they were close enough together that it doesn't look great in hindsight. But in the post-war years the car was considered the future, so new towns were built around that vision. That's one reason why Skelmersdale is such a peculiar place, with roundabouts up the wazoo!

True Runcorn is similar but at least there is two stations there.

 

[Bletchleyite]

True Runcorn is similar but at least there is two stations there.

And MK. And indeed, it wasn't originally intended to even bother with Milton Keynes Central but it was soon seen as necessary to add it. But London makes it much more of a commuter town (even though there is more commuting in than out) than the location of the other New Towns.

 

[driver_m]

Was to be fitted to the 7th in class, that's now not gone ahead and apparently are only looking at self power for depot moves within non-electrified sidings at the moment. Any in service operation will require more substantial modifications than originally envisaged.

Probably why its been hived off the rolling stock procurement into a separate (presently unfunded) R&D program. They also appear to have set up a separate program for onboard Wi-Fi provision.

Why would they only fit batteries for non electrified sidings? That’s still a lot of effort in fitting for a very small gain and makes little sense. As Tony Miles said, the writer of that story saying it wasn’t going ahead was pulled up for inaccuracies, was a pretty put down too, saying that they shouldn’t listen to unfounded gossip and rumours!

 

[158756]

Seeing as a central Skelmersdale station would be a distance from the industrial estates does the plan include a station south of the M58?
If the branch is too pricey a good start would be building a P&R station at the SW corner of the estate (I presume buses already loop round it from the town), either extending Merseyrail through to Wigan or moving the end on termini to the new station.

There are no buses on the industrial estates in Skelmersdale, and surprisingly few buses in the town at all. There's nothing there to make the industrial estates a big draw from Wigan or Kirkby either. If you want to do a P&R station on the cheap you may as well build a car park at Up Holland. Personally I don't think any station on the existing line could attract enough passengers to justify the costs of extending Merseyrail.

 

[driver_m]

If you're gonna link Skem, do it properly or not at all. UpHolland P&R would just be another Liverpool South Parkway. Looks good, but doesn't actually do whats it is supposed to do.

 

[Djgr]

Well Skelmersdale certainly isn't going to be part of this funding

 

[Skie]

Was to be fitted to the 7th in class, that's now not gone ahead and apparently are only looking at self power for depot moves within non-electrified sidings at the moment. Any in service operation will require more substantial modifications than originally envisaged. Probably why its been hived off the rolling stock procurement into a separate (presently unfunded) R&D program.

All units come with batteries for depot moves - AKA into and out of the sheds. Battery trials for service are still planned according to the project manager.

They also appear to have set up a separate program for onboard Wi-Fi provision.

Standard procurement really. Package for new trains includes Wi-Fi provision which needs a trackside network and onboard kit, Stadler don't do that so another company is doing it (and outsourcing some of the trackside work themselves!). Fairly normal for a major project!

 

[WatcherZero]

But was previously within the original rolling stock budget.

 

[Skie]

Yeah, it's weird to see it called out in the list. Most likely accounting tricks to hide a cost overrun. The Wi-Fi/Downlink work is already underway and has been for some time, as has the battery exploratory work, so it's not as if this is really new money or a new initiative that requires funding.

 

[PR1Berske]

Today (16 July) Merseytravel has updated progress on Headbolt Lane.

Source: https://www.merseytravel.gov.uk/new...-funding-secured-and-cgi-images-are-unveiled/

Text from source:

Metro Mayor Steve Rotheram’s pledge for a new station at Kirkby Headbolt Lane has moved a step closer thanks to a further £3.3m investment. And images illustrating the potential design of the new station have also been revealed.

The new station plans include proposals for around 500 park and ride spaces and a bus interchange with step-free access throughout the station and onto the new Merseyrail trains
The additional funding, from the Combined Authority’s Strategic Investment Fund, has been approved to move to the next stage of Network Rail’s design process.
The full scheme includes the extension of the Merseyrail network beyond the existing Kirkby station. It would also mean that residents in the Northwood and Tower Hill areas of the town would be even closer to services on the Merseyrail network.
It would see Merseyrail services run into the new station, as opposed to the current services which run as far as Kirkby. Northern services from Wigan and Manchester would also operate to and from the new station.
The development also forms part of the plans to build new rail link to Skelmersdale, which would connect to the Merseyrail network via Kirkby. Merseytravel is continuing to work closely with Lancashire County Council and West Lancashire Borough Council to support that scheme.
An outline business case is currently being developed for the scheme, which is expected to be completed by September 2020. It is planned for the new station to be operational by 2023.
The station also forms part of the Liverpool City Region Long Term Rail Strategy, a 30-year plan, which was updated in 2018.

"I’m delighted that we’re moving forward with our plans for a new station at Headbolt Lane. It’s a really exciting moment and great news for the people of Kirkby. It shows my continued commitment to invest in transport infrastructure across the whole city region.

“As a local lad, Kirkby is close to my heart so I’m pleased that it will now be better connected to the city region via our new trains which will be some of the most sophisticated in the country. An improved public transport network is central to building back better and supporting our economic recovery.

There is one image provided on that link

Image description in case picture cannot be viewed:
CGI rendition of Headbolt Lane station showing platforms, station building, and new MerseyRail unit at platform.

 

[bluenoxid]

I wonder if they have thought about a New Stations Fund 3 bid for Headbolt Lane.

 

[S&CLER]

Today (16 July) Merseytravel has updated progress on Headbolt Lane.

Source: https://www.merseytravel.gov.uk/news/kirkby-headbolt-lane-station-scheme-moves-a-step-closer-with-£33m-funding-secured-and-cgi-images-are-unveiled/

Text from source:




There is one image provided on that link

Image description in case picture cannot be viewed:
CGI rendition of Headbolt Lane station showing platforms, station building, and new MerseyRail unit at platform.

That looks like a 2-platform station, since a line of lamp standards is visible behind the emu, and a white platform edge (no visible footbridge, though). But The Planner said in a reply to me on another thread that redoubling wasn't planned as part of the Headbolt Lane extension. Just artistic licence in the CGI?

 

[Bletchleyite]

That looks like a 2-platform station, since a line of lamp standards is visible behind the emu, and a white platform edge (no visible footbridge, though). But The Planner said in a reply to me on another thread that redoubling wasn't planned as part of the Headbolt Lane extension. Just artistic licence in the CGI?

Would it be one side for Merseyrail and one side for Wigan and beyond?

 

[M28361M]

Would it be one side for Merseyrail and one side for Wigan and beyond?

Possibly just passive provision for the future?

Would severing the line at Headbolt Lane and having buffer stops halfway along the platform (as at Kirkby and Ormskirk) get in the way of freight to Knowsley terminal? I'm not sure where the sidings are in relation to the proposed station. If that's the case, the station may need to be arranged like Ellesmere Port to allow through freight trains to run.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Possibly just passive provision for the future?

Would severing the line at Headbolt Lane and having buffer stops halfway along the platform (as at Kirkby and Ormskirk) get in the way of freight to Knowsley terminal? I'm not sure where the sidings are in relation to the proposed station.

That would require a longer platform, though, and with more extension likely an Ellesmere Port style arrangement makes more sense. I would expect 2 8-car platforms with an accessible bridge, even if at the start each is only accessible from the east or west with no connection between them.

Anyone know for certain?

 

[M28361M]

(Sorry @Bletchleyite, I think I edited my post while you were replying to it!)

I've just noticed the quote from Karen Hornby of Network Rail in the article linked from post #172 above, which I think actually answers the question (my emphasis):

“The new station and reinstatement of two tracks, will ensure Merseyrail and Northern can serve a greater number of passengers in the wider Kirkby area.

My one quibble with this is that crossing over a footbridge to change trains is a bit more of a faff compared to just walking along the platform. But if it is "temporary" with a view to extending to Skelmersdale, I think we can live with it.

 

[S&CLER]

(Sorry @Bletchleyite, I think I edited my post while you were replying to it!)

I've just noticed the quote from Karen Hornby of Network Rail in the article linked from post #172 above, which I think actually answers the question (my emphasis):



My one quibble with this is that crossing over a footbridge to change trains is a bit more of a faff compared to just walking along the platform. But if it is "temporary" with a view to extending to Skelmersdale, I think we can live with it.

If there are to be 2 tracks to Kirkby, an additional bridge span over the M57 will not be cheap. Maybe it will be just partial redoubling.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Merseytravel/Liverpool City Region part funded the Halton Curve mainly for the benefit of residents outside the city of Liverpool.

I think it was included in the City Region deal for delivery convenience.
The money came from Westminster (George Osborne).

I seem to remember Liverpool mayor Joe Anderson announcing a new station in the Crown St-Wapping tunnel not so long ago.
It created a lot of excitement in the Liverpool Echo, but seems to have died a death, like all the other ideas for reusing the old tunnels under the city.
The new list seems small beer really, compared to a Merseyrail extension onto the City line.

 

[The Planner]

(Sorry @Bletchleyite, I think I edited my post while you were replying to it!)

I've just noticed the quote from Karen Hornby of Network Rail in the article linked from post #172 above, which I think actually answers the question (my emphasis):

My one quibble with this is that crossing over a footbridge to change trains is a bit more of a faff compared to just walking along the platform. But if it is "temporary" with a view to extending to Skelmersdale, I think we can live with it.

Karen is putting a bit of spin on it. The plan I have got shows Headbolt Lane being a 3 platform station. P3 on the Wigan side, P1 and 2 on the Merseyrail side. The double track will begin from where the existing Kirkby station (29m35ch) is now to where Headbolt Lane will be (28m59ch), so about ¾ mile. Depending on your view it isn't really double track, effectively it will be two bi-directional sidings.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Karen is putting a bit of spin on it. The plan I have got shows Headbolt Lane being a 3 platform station. P3 on the Wigan side, P1 and 2 on the Merseyrail side. The double track will begin from where the existing Kirkby station (29m35ch) is now to where Headbolt Lane will be (28m59ch), so about ¾ mile. Depending on your view it isn't really double track, effectively it will be two bi-directional sidings.

Interesting - I'm not sure what benefit there is from that, as Merseyrail clearly don't need two terminating platforms for the frequency being operated. So are we talking a side platform (as pictured) plus an island, or are 1 and 3/2 and 3 an Ormskirk/Kirkby style arrangement?