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Merseyrail: funding for Headbolt Lane and St James stations

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geoffk

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I hadn't realised they shut the old Skelmersdale line while constructing the new town. How riddiculos !
A bit like Redditch, designated a New Town in 1964. The branch would have closed in 1965 but was reprieved apparently because Midland Red was unable to provide replacement buses.
 
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The Planner

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Interesting - I'm not sure what benefit there is from that, as Merseyrail clearly don't need two terminating platforms for the frequency being operated. So are we talking a side platform (as pictured) plus an island, or are 1 and 3/2 and 3 an Ormskirk/Kirkby style arrangement?
The way the diagram shows it is odd, you have a "conventional" two platform station on the Merseyrail side and a side platform on the Wigan side but opposite side to the Merseyrail one, which as shown would either mean the island would be temporary if through services ever happened or it isn't possible to have through services in the future. The Knowsley freight headshunt has to be re-aligned to make it work. The only way I can really describe it is as below with * being the platforms. Its as though the line on the Wigan side will be on the centre of a two track formation.

****1
ooooo ****3
ooooo oooooooooo
****2
 

Bletchleyite

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The way the diagram shows it is odd, you have a "conventional" two platform station on the Merseyrail side and a side platform on the Wigan side but opposite side to the Merseyrail one, which as shown would either mean the island would be temporary if through services ever happened or it isn't possible to have through services in the future. The Knowsley freight headshunt has to be re-aligned to make it work. The only way I can really describe it is as below with * being the platforms. Its as though the line on the Wigan side will be on the centre of a two track formation.

****1
ooooo ****3
ooooo oooooooooo
****2

Cheers. That's a bit weird. Is the extension going to require an extra Merseyrail unit/crew, so they will need two platforms for a layover of longer than 15 minutes, perhaps (at least until Merseyrail goes to Skem or Wigan)?
 

lyndhurst25

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I hope the station is called "Kirkby Headbolt Lane" or "Kirkby East" rather than just "Headbolt Lane", given that there will be trains terminating there from both Liverpool and Manchester. It would be useful for passengers to have an idea in which town the station actually is.
 

Llandudno

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I hope the station is called "Kirkby Headbolt Lane" or "Kirkby East" rather than just "Headbolt Lane", given that there will be trains terminating there from both Liverpool and Manchester. It would be useful for passengers to have an idea in which town the station actually is.
I think the best name would be Kirkby Northwood
 

frodshamfella

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This extension seems to be taking an age ! How long before it reaches Skelmersdale ? I maybe retired by then .
 

Bletchleyite

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I hope the station is called "Kirkby Headbolt Lane" or "Kirkby East" rather than just "Headbolt Lane", given that there will be trains terminating there from both Liverpool and Manchester. It would be useful for passengers to have an idea in which town the station actually is.

As neither station is particularly central (the nominal centre of Kirkby being almost equidistant from both, potentially slightly nearer Headbolt Lane if it's going where I think it is) I'd rename them both Kirkby West and Kirkby East, which also makes it clear that there isn't a central one so you're going to need a bus, taxi or walk either way if that's your destination.
 

Llandudno

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As neither station is particularly central (the nominal centre of Kirkby being almost equidistant from both, potentially slightly nearer Headbolt Lane if it's going where I think it is) I'd rename them both Kirkby West and Kirkby East, which also makes it clear that there isn't a central one so you're going to need a bus, taxi or walk either way if that's your destination.
I would normally concur with Kirkby East and Kirkby West, problem is Merseyrail already has a West Kirby.
The demographic of its residents may be slightly different though!
 

Bletchleyite

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I would normally concur with Kirkby East and Kirkby West, problem is Merseyrail already has a West Kirby.
The demographic of its residents may be slightly different though!

Good point, didn't think of that.

Kirkby Row for the existing one then perhaps? It's not quite on that road (rather it's the road directly opposite) but it's short and punchy.
 

Llandudno

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Good point, didn't think of that.

Kirkby Row for the existing one then perhaps? It's not quite on that road (rather it's the road directly opposite) but it's short and punchy.
The last train to Kirkby on a Saturday night can be a bit punchy so Row as in argument may be quite apt!
 

The Planner

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As neither station is particularly central (the nominal centre of Kirkby being almost equidistant from both, potentially slightly nearer Headbolt Lane if it's going where I think it is) I'd rename them both Kirkby West and Kirkby East, which also makes it clear that there isn't a central one so you're going to need a bus, taxi or walk either way if that's your destination.
It will likely be on the bend between Langton Road and Sandhole Grove.
 

WAO

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Simonswood would be much better than Headbolt Lane which sounds like a Frankenstein set (yes, I know it's Kirkby!).

I hope that MR builds the extension with third rail (with fencing and toe-boards) and then challenges ORR to refuse to sign it off!

Merseyside is good at confrontation.

WAO
 

Llandudno

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I think Kirkby needs to be in the station name, especially if it is, albeit maybe only temporarily, the westbound terminus of Northern trains from Manchester, as most people won’t know where Simonswood or Headbolt Lane is if they are looking on the departure boards at Manchester
 

Bletchleyite

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Simonswood is a civil parish in its own right and quite separate to Kirkby.

People do seem uncannily bothered about that in the UK for some reason - if you want to really upset someone from Aughton (the posh bit south of Ormskirk) you just need to send them a letter with the correct postal town (Ormskirk) written on it. "Aughton, near Ormskirk" is the most you will ever get away with.

I do it to my parents on purpose :D

(I tend to use Bletchley but don't get annoyed if anyone puts Milton Keynes :) )
 

S&CLER

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Simonswood is a civil parish in its own right and quite separate to Kirkby.

Relatives of mine lived in Kirkby in the 1970s and yet their telephone exchange was called Simonswood. That doesn't really prove anything though, as I have a friend in Parbold village who tells me her exchange is nominally Coppull!
 

KevinTurvey

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I wonder if as a result of the extended travel time to Headbolt Lane, perhaps 2-3 minutes each way, any turn around time under the normal 15 minute timetable situation is not possible and that a double tracking through the existing Kirkby station would also now be required?
I just cant see the single line working all the way back from Fazakerley to Headbolt Lane working reliably with a 15 minute timetable without some form of extra doubling.
 

urbophile

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I think Kirkby needs to be in the station name, especially if it is, albeit maybe only temporarily, the westbound terminus of Northern trains from Manchester, as most people won’t know where Simonswood or Headbolt Lane is if they are looking on the departure boards at Manchester
Is there any reason why the new station couldn't be simply Kirkby, and the old one renamed Westvale? You don't need to include the name of the municipality (unlike in Italy, where all suburban stations include the name of the city); and in any case that is Knowsley, which doesn't have a station named after it.
 

Bletchleyite

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I wonder if as a result of the extended travel time to Headbolt Lane, perhaps 2-3 minutes each way, any turn around time under the normal 15 minute timetable situation is not possible and that a double tracking through the existing Kirkby station would also now be required?
I just cant see the single line working all the way back from Fazakerley to Headbolt Lane working reliably with a 15 minute timetable without some form of extra doubling.

They are double-tracking the line through Kirkby, aren't they? Or have I misread?

I'm suspecting the need for two Merseyrail platforms at Headbolt Lane is because the extension, though short, will require an extra unit (i.e. a layover of over 14 minutes or so)? Should be good for punctuality!
 

185

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I think the best name would be Kirkby Northwood


Given the fact Merseytravel plan to confusingly name the other station St James which (after several shandys) looks a little like James St...

I'm surprised they don't cause yet further chaos with.... East Kirkby.

"Can I have a single from East Kirkby to West Kirby please?".... "Err.. How much?!?!"
 

Camden

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I think it was included in the City Region deal for delivery convenience.
The money came from Westminster (George Osborne).

I seem to remember Liverpool mayor Joe Anderson announcing a new station in the Crown St-Wapping tunnel not so long ago.
It created a lot of excitement in the Liverpool Echo, but seems to have died a death, like all the other ideas for reusing the old tunnels under the city.
The new list seems small beer really, compared to a Merseyrail extension onto the City line.
Halton curve was funded by Liverpool city region in full. George Osborne nothing to do with that, nor was it part of any city deal.

Anderson has no remit over transport, and is only mayor of one borough. He says all sorts "could happen", especially around key dates like elections, very little of which does happen.

The Edge Hill spur is still a live project with potential to happen. If and when it does, there are a couple of candidates for a new station as part of that.
 

urbophile

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Given the fact Merseytravel plan to confusingly name the other station St James which (after several shandys) looks a little like James St...
It would be nice to see plans for the St James station begin to take shape, whatever they call it. But surely they can't have made a final decision on the name at this stage? Parliament Street, Baltic or Toxteth would all be preferable alternatives.
 

Bletchleyite

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Given the fact Merseytravel plan to confusingly name the other station St James which (after several shandys) looks a little like James St...

I'm surprised they don't cause yet further chaos with.... East Kirkby.

"Can I have a single from East Kirkby to West Kirby please?".... "Err.. How much?!?!"

I very much doubt, unless barriers are present, that anyone travelling from the present Kirkby to Headbolt Lane or vice versa will pay their fare. So no need to worry :D

But yes that's best avoided. I've even known confusion between Disley and East Didsbury, and then there's two Hopes...
 

frodshamfella

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I very much doubt, unless barriers are present, that anyone travelling from the present Kirkby to Headbolt Lane or vice versa will pay their fare. So no need to worry :D

But yes that's best avoided. I've even known confusion between Disley and East Didsbury, and then there's two Hopes...

When I was a travel agent in London years ago, we often had tourist come in wanting to take the Central Line to Stratford ( upon Avon ) .
 

WatcherZero

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The £18.75m cost of the Halton scheme was ultimately funded by £14.5m from the Local Growth fund given to the Liverpool LEP as part of the city deal and the balance directly from the Combined Authority, it actually came in under its £18.75m budget, £10.4m funds were allocated by Westminster in the first growth deal but this grew slightly by completion.

 

Liverpool 507

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If there are to be 2 tracks to Kirkby, an additional bridge span over the M57 will not be cheap. Maybe it will be just partial redoubling.

I said exactly the same thing on Mersey Railways Facebook group. May only be redoubled in both station areas. Kirkby itself could do with the redoubling.
 
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