Merseyrail Grand National Saturday

[Failed Unit]

I did wonder about that. I believe that there is a 1st class fare between SHF and MAN as TPE offer first class accommodation, but there isn't between MAN and LIV.

Does this therefore mean that between SHF and MAN you can only sit in first class with a first class ticket but once the train leaves MAN we can all pile into 1st class regardless of what ticket we hold?

Liverpool - Manchester also have a 1st class fare (TPE)

You can get Liverpool - Nottingham in 1st class if you pick your times (but don't know if the fare exists)

Liverpool - Manchester (TPE)
Manchester - Sheffield (TPE)
Sheffield - Nottingham (EMT London bound service) or via Derby.

 

[jopsuk]

I reckon Lime Street will be a crazy place Saturday- with botht the National and the Liverpool-Everton FA Cup Semi Final travel funneling through it. I really don't envy anyone that will be working there!

 

[Kneedown]

I'm quite tempted to have a ride out to Liverpool on one of those, but wondered if anyone who's been in previous years can give some indication as to how busy they're likely to be. Surely there can't be that many people from Notts and Yorkshire going to Aintree?

Very busy indeed more than likely. I worked one of the services last year and it was heaving. Plenty of people all over the Country are into the gee-gee's and will travel to a big meeting like Aintree.

 

[ukrob]

Related to the football rather that the National - I believe both 11 car Pendolinos will be on Liverpool services at key times.

 

[jopsuk]

if they do early enough runs to London filled with football fans, will they be able to do a run back to Liverpool with race fans and get back in time to pick up football fans again, before taking race fans back south?

 

[73001]

Northern claimed it was being 'upgraded' to a 142 as of the December 2011 timetable change, releasing the 153 to the Cumbria Coast. I don't know if that change occurred.

Yes... I've met 3 trains at Ormskirk this week and all were 142s. At least there's a bit more room on them and it is only 25 mins :roll: ... hopefully they'll find another one for Friday/Saturday to make it a 4-car.

 

[driver9000]

Northern claimed it was being 'upgraded' to a 142 as of the December 2011 timetable change, releasing the 153 to the Cumbria Coast. I don't know if that change occurred.

Yes it did and booked traction Monday-Friday is now a 142 although 150s have been making regular appearances too. A 153 is booked for Saturdays.

 

[dk1]

The return workings on anything main line from Lime St on 'National' day is so hard to predict. Thousands just descend on central Liverpool after the race to get even more wasted & it is anyones guess when they make their way back. Atmosphere is usually very good & hopefully once aboard they will just sleep like a baby (probably missing their stop :roll

 

[34D]

I did wonder about that. I believe that there is a 1st class fare between SHF and MAN as TPE offer first class accommodation, but there isn't between MAN and LIV.

Does this therefore mean that between SHF and MAN you can only sit in first class with a first class ticket but once the train leaves MAN we can all pile into 1st class regardless of what ticket we hold?

We have a current thread about this at http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=63156

It _should_ mean that (for the whole journey) standard ticket holders can sit in first, however my advice is to check with EMT either by email today or by asking the guard when you board.

 

[1007-T68]

7 car Meridian booked for the following EMT services on Saturday:

0845 departing Nottingham and arriving into Liverpool at 1131
1152 departing Liverpool and arriving into Nottingham at 1429
1545 departing Nottingham and arriving into Liverpool at 1835
1852 departing Liverpool and arriving into Nottingham at 2133

Connecting services operating for the Nottingham-Norwich sections.

will these services call Manchester Picadilly?

 

[telstarbox]

Yes they will, also Stockport and Manchester Oxford Road.

 

[Green Lane]

Going to grand national on saturday from Liverpool Central, when does it start to get busy , anyone been , ie what time would be best to travel

Also do the trains have loos ? ( beer seal etc)

As I can see in the thread, your questions have already been expertly answered. But I might as well mention that I traveled from Moorfields to Aintree around 12:45 or so this afternoon. (I wasn't going for the races though).

As is often the case, it seems over 90% of passengers had boarded at Liverpool Central, so the train was pretty busy by the time it got to Moorfields.

What caught me out was that the electronic information board at Moorfields was showing "3 car", so I waited in the middle of the platform, expecting a 3 car train.

However as others have pointed out, in fact all trains are 6 car on the Ormskirk line during the races.

The front three carriages were reasonably busy but not packed. I got on the fifth carriage (second from back) and it was pretty packed with standing room only, although not completely rammed (I've experienced much worse during the Mathew Street Festival for example). Although, the first day of the races "Liverpool Day" is supposedly the least busy of the three days.

Anyway, going to Aintree, the front three carriages are seemingly not as busy as the rear three as others have pointed out.

However, it's no problem to stand whatsoever as the journey is merely a quarter of an hour (in fact to me it seems very short), and only a few additional passengers boarded at Sandhills and then Kirkdale.

The only issue I had was that I was nearly "shepherded" into the actual Aintree Race course along with the main flow of people coming out of the station. I had to get through a gap in the barriers to get on to the Ormskirk Road where I wanted to be, and the usual station "Side exit" that I use was closed off. All staff present do an excellent job with the "crowd control" though it has to be said.

Came back a little bit later from Orrell Park station. Overall I had seen a couple of ECS trains returning back to Liverpool Central. Train I boarded on the way back was merely half full, but I know they get packed later on in the afternoon when the races finish!

 

[dk1]

Now on the 09.59 Preston-Ormskirk. Train is packed solid & formed of 153+156. Well done Northern as train barried at Preston so all revenue collected from there as no chance of getting through.

 

[John55]

Now on the 09.59 Preston-Ormskirk. Train is packed solid & formed of 153+156. Well done Northern as train barried at Preston so all revenue collected from there as no chance of getting through.

I have to disagree. The service provided on Preston-Ormskirk on the GN race days is shameful. There is no reason why at least a 30 minute headway service cannot be provided for the a few hours before and after the racing. If Northern can run a doubled up service from Wigan to Kirkby today there is no reason they cannot do better between Preston & Ormskirk.

The levels of overcrowding on thses morning trains arriving at Ormskirk are amongst the worst I have every seen .

 

[Gathursty]

Looking at a map and considering the Ormskirk routes being sooo rammed annually, is it of any benefit in the future to spread the loads and advertise the fact that one can go Wigan-Kirkby-Fazakerley/Rice Lane and be pretty much in spitting distance of Aintree?

 

[73001]

It is a shame they can't run any extras... a train every hour and a quarter (or near enough) on a day like today is poor and not being able to find two 2-cars to stick together doesn't help either... I know 142s are cr*p but you'd get a lot more crammed in, standing up, than a 153. Surely this could have been swapped with a Pacer from somewhere.

The trouble with the Kirkby route is that (from the North) it involves two lots of walking (Wigan NW to Wallgate and Fazakerley to the racecourse) and 3 trains. This would put people off even if you tried to advertise it.

Is the Ormskirk line now considered to be a 'single' branch or is it still split at Rufford? This may make running extras hard but there's no excuse for the poor stock allocation. Merseyrail shortform some other trains to make their part of this a success. Maybe Northern might think about it more next year.

 

[Green Lane]

The Grand National day itself is certainly incredibly busy. Even on the Wirral Line this morning, I was returning from Port Sunlight to Birkenhead.

A train which I presume had originated at Chester was so packed with racegoers as well as the usual Saturday shoppers etc.. that none of us at the platform could board the train. The guard said to us "I'm sorry but I can't let you on".

He was of course correct, as people were standing right down the length of each carriage and packed like sardines around the doors, you just couldn't fit another person single on the 3-car train.

Fortunately, the service is frequent on this line, so it's really no real problem at all as long as you are not in a hurry. We all just got on the next train some minutes later which was still busy, but not completely rammed.

 

[John55]

Looking at a map and considering the Ormskirk routes being sooo rammed annually, is it of any benefit in the future to spread the loads and advertise the fact that one can go Wigan-Kirkby-Fazakerley/Rice Lane and be pretty much in spitting distance of Aintree?

The only public access to the racecourse nowadays is from Ormskirk Road where Aintree Station is, so sending people via Wigan and Fazakerley will tend to put more passengers on the Liverpool - Aintree trains which is probably best avoided. The Ormskirk to Liverpool trains do get busy but nothing like the Liverpool - Aintree trains except when they connect with Preston trains.

It is a shame they can't run any extras... a train every hour and a quarter (or near enough) on a day like today is poor and not being able to find two 2-cars to stick together doesn't help either... I know 142s are cr*p but you'd get a lot more crammed in, standing up, than a 153. Surely this could have been swapped with a Pacer from somewhere.

The trouble with the Kirkby route is that (from the North) it involves two lots of walking (Wigan NW to Wallgate and Fazakerley to the racecourse) and 3 trains. This would put people off even if you tried to advertise it.

Is the Ormskirk line now considered to be a 'single' branch or is it still split at Rufford? This may make running extras hard but there's no excuse for the poor stock allocation. Merseyrail shortform some other trains to make their part of this a success. Maybe Northern might think about it more next year.

There is a passing loop at Rufford which as far as I know is still operational. The limitation on service frequency is the time to do Rufford - Ormskirk - Rufford which can sustain 30 minute intervals. A half hour frequency would be a good match to the electrics beyond Ormskirk. Northern would have to provide 3 trains and crews to do this but is that impossible on the saturday at least?

This morning the 12:00 arrival at Ormskirk was a 3 car DMU and something like 450 people got off and amazingly all of them made the 12:03 to Liverpool. I don't suppose anyone enjoyed that DMU journey much and I have no doubt people were left behind along the route.

In 2008 a special ran to Ormskirk from London via Preston between the service trains (class 67s plus coaches!) for the Open Championship Golf at Birkdale so it is perfectly possible to do things if the will to do it is there.

 

[johnnychips]

It was rather lovely to get a 222 on the 1338 Sheff to Nottingham today. Never been on one before, loads of legroom. More Grand Nationals please!

 

[M60lad]

Out of interest what will be used on the 7 Car Meridian diagram that the one on Liverpools yesterday would normally be on?

Also can a 7 Car Meridian fit on all the platforms it calls at from Nottingham-Liverpool Lime Street?

 

[pemma]

Out of interest what will be used on the 7 Car Meridian diagram that the one on Liverpools yesterday would normally be on?

Either a 222 or a HST would have been sat out-of-use. EMT don't need as many 222s and HST in service on a Saturday as on a weekday.

Also can a 7 Car Meridian fit on all the platforms it calls at from Nottingham-Liverpool Lime Street?

No. South Parkway's platforms are too short but a 222 has selective door opening, unlike 158s running in multiple or HSTs.