Merseyrail most punctual' rail network in UK for second year running

[Bletchleyite]

I agree about the helpful staff, especially when it comes to wheelchair ramp assistance, which they have got down to a practised turn up and go routine (but it will no longer be needed with the new trains). I counted up to 6 wheelchairs on the 16:13 from Southport on some occasions when I used to take a disabled friend back from town to Birkdale twice a week. One thing I felt was particularly unfair during disruption on Northern was that, since Northern had no staff at Ormskirk or Southport, they left Merseyrail men and women to carry the can for the failings of a TOC that isn't even their employer (it's just "the railway" to your average commuter). The comment I heard more than once from staff was that "they [Northern] never tell us anything".

Is that actually unusual? At most small or medium sized stations the station is staffed by only one TOC who do "carry the can" for any that serve it.

There is an attitude problem pervading Merseyrail Electrics (right up to the top I expect) that they aren't part of the national network and therefore nothing else is their concern, which is why you might get more whining about it than you might get from, say, WMT staff dispatching XC trains.

 

[Birkonian]

A few posts above mention in passing skipping station. When it is your local station it is really annoying. Surely the punctuality stats can't include this because users at those stations receive a sub standard service?

 

[Djgr]

A few posts above mention in passing skipping station. When it is your local station it is really annoying. Surely the punctuality stats can't include this because users at those stations receive a sub standard service?

I think it says above in the thread that the stats have already been already adjusted for this.

 

[frodshamfella]

I really like Water Street...Its like arriving on a film set.

 

[Meerkat]

Is Water Street the one that pretended to be Moscow in the Jack Ryan film?

 

[frodshamfella]

Is Water Street the one that pretended to be Moscow in the Jack Ryan film?

I dont know but I always expect to see Dr Who and The Daleks when i pass that way lol

 

[bramling]

Is that actually unusual? At most small or medium sized stations the station is staffed by only one TOC who do "carry the can" for any that serve it.

There is an attitude problem pervading Merseyrail Electrics (right up to the top I expect) that they aren't part of the national network and therefore nothing else is their concern, which is why you might get more whining about it than you might get from, say, WMT staff dispatching XC trains.

"No one tells us anything" is a pretty common term heard throughout the industry, sometimes rightly but often by staff who have unrealistic expectations regarding the workload of control staff. People simply get used to working in their own little bubble and overlook that they are just one small link in a massive chain.

 

[L401CJF]

"any passengers for Chester should board the next train (Ellesmere Port) and stand in the cold at Hooton waiting for the following through Chester", I think they meant. There's no Chester-Hooton shuttle, nor would I expect them to put one on on that occasion.

Correct, basically just move down the line so it feels like you are getting somewhere when in reality you would get there just as quickly by staying put at Hamilton Square as it would be the same train you would wait for at Hooton.

Merseyrail always seems to have lots of generally friendly and helpful staff on the Northern Line platforms at Liverpool Central. I suspect that this is key to keeping that very grubby part of the station, which is far too small and really needs another platform (for some terminating services) new faster escalators etc, moving. I am generally impressed that they manage to encourage and help passengers onto the trains even when the station os very busy. There are lessons for platforms 13/14 at Manchester Piccadilly where the current attitude is generally 'shout at' rather than 'help'.

That said, I have noticed that Southport services are consistently 3-5 minutes late recently and the cause is unclear. Maybe the junction down at Allerton is causing problems because of that lot at Northern?

They should take a leaf out of the book of the Scandi's at Central. I have been to a few stations where the outer walls are bare rock and they have cleaned them up/sealed them and project all things Scandinavian onto them - so mainly calming trees. You could have a lot of fun with that in a creative and historic city like Liverpool.

I would love to see the same on the cuttings into Lime Street. Think images of the cuttings being built, Rocket etc.

Regarding slow escalators at Central, try watching people using the lift on the inbound (single line) platform at James Street. Tiny lift, original to the loop opening I think, takes an age to appear when called from platform and regularly see queues of prams waiting to get in. Can only fit one at a time. I spent 30mins taking photos here at the weekend and people still waiting in the queue for a lift up to 5 minutes after they got off the train! Many people opted to carry their prams up the stairs.

 

[BloominMan]

Delete please

 

[ComUtoR]

Does anyone know their 'Right Time' figures please ?

 

[Esker-pades]

Does anyone know their 'Right Time' figures please ?

https://www.merseyrail.org/about-me...ormation/performance-information-archive.aspx

Suggests it is ~70% (sum of all 'on time' stats for 2019 divided to give the mean).

 

[Skie]

Is Water Street the one that pretended to be Moscow in the Jack Ryan film?

Yep. Also New York, London and various other guises over the years. That core area is a great hodgepodge of grand architectural styles.

 

[Gareth]

Shame it's never seen on TV as Liverpool.

 

[ComUtoR]

https://www.merseyrail.org/about-me...ormation/performance-information-archive.aspx

Suggests it is ~70% (sum of all 'on time' stats for 2019 divided to give the mean).

Thanks.

 

[Class83]

The problem with any statistic is that a good overall average may well disguise a distinct problem one one line. And, if the skip stopping happens in the peaks, the % of passengers delayed will be proportionately greater.

Looking at their twitter:
28/1: 1730 ex Chester, 0915 Ex Liverpool, 0845 ex Chester and 0830 ex Liverpool all skipped everything between Hooton and Birkenhead.
27/1: 1020 ex Hamilton Sq, skipped Birkenhead to Hooton
25/1: 1300 ex Liverpool
24/1: 1659 ex Hooton, there was significant disruption on Friday morning for more serious reasons.
23/1: 2115 ex Liverpool

So over a 6 day period (4 weekdays) there were 5 peak time skip stops when there was no specific reason other than a the timetable is very tight. How much better the new trains will be remains to be seen, their website claims 5 mins faster each way from Chester to Liverpool so 10 mins on each diagram, less the time of an extra stop at Capenhurst.

 

[Djgr]

The problem with any statistic is that a good overall average may well disguise a distinct problem one one line. And, if the skip stopping happens in the peaks, the % of passengers delayed will be proportionately greater.

Looking at their twitter:
28/1: 1730 ex Chester, 0915 Ex Liverpool, 0845 ex Chester and 0830 ex Liverpool all skipped everything between Hooton and Birkenhead.
27/1: 1020 ex Hamilton Sq, skipped Birkenhead to Hooton
25/1: 1300 ex Liverpool
24/1: 1659 ex Hooton, there was significant disruption on Friday morning for more serious reasons.
23/1: 2115 ex Liverpool

So over a 6 day period (4 weekdays) there were 5 peak time skip stops when there was no specific reason other than a the timetable is very tight. How much better the new trains will be remains to be seen, their website claims 5 mins faster each way from Chester to Liverpool so 10 mins on each diagram, less the time of an extra stop at Capenhurst.

To be honest, that doesn't look very many (instances of skipping)

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

new faster escalators etc,

They should visit Kyiv for some ideas, where the Metro escalators are maybe twice as fast as Merseyrail's.
Mind you they are probably three times as long, with the metro being so deep, so you still spend a long time in contemplation on the ascent/descent.
The station decorations also reflect the major features on the surface, to give them some character (as some of LUL's do).
eg Teatralna station exit is decorated to give you the feeling you are entering the Opera House above.

Budapest's new Line 4 also has some impressive decoration, all the stations being different.
Merseyrail's stations lost their drab yellow/brown ambience in the recent cosmetic upgrade, bit it's now over-clinical.

Not proper rail, but the shuttle between terminals at Zurich airport portrays huge Alpine landscapes and even mooing/bell-clanging cows...

 

[Djgr]

Merseyrail always seems to have lots of generally friendly and helpful staff on the Northern Line platforms at Liverpool Central. I suspect that this is key to keeping that very grubby part of the station, which is far too small and really needs another platform (for some terminating services) new faster escalators etc, moving. I am generally impressed that they manage to encourage and help passengers onto the trains even when the station os very busy. There are lessons for platforms 13/14 at Manchester Piccadilly where the current attitude is generally 'shout at' rather than 'help'.

That said, I have noticed that Southport services are consistently 3-5 minutes late recently and the cause is unclear. Maybe the junction down at Allerton is causing problems because of that lot at Northern?

They should take a leaf out of the book of the Scandi's at Central. I have been to a few stations where the outer walls are bare rock and they have cleaned them up/sealed them and project all things Scandinavian onto them - so mainly calming trees. You could have a lot of fun with that in a creative and historic city like Liverpool.

I would love to see the same on the cuttings into Lime Street. Think images of the cuttings being built, Rocket etc.

From what I recall Liverpool Central was going to be improved with Central government money but this offer mysteriously disappeared (recycled into the Crossrail money pot perhaps?)

 

[L401CJF]

They should visit Kyiv for some ideas, where the Metro escalators are maybe twice as fast as Merseyrail's.
Mind you they are probably three times as long, with the metro being so deep, so you still spend a long time in contemplation on the ascent/descent.
The station decorations also reflect the major features on the surface, to give them some character (as some of LUL's do).
eg Teatralna station exit is decorated to give you the feeling you are entering the Opera House above.

Budapest's new Line 4 also has some impressive decoration, all the stations being different.
Merseyrail's stations lost their drab yellow/brown ambience in the recent cosmetic upgrade, bit it's now over-clinical.

Not proper rail, but the shuttle between terminals at Zurich airport portrays huge Alpine landscapes and even mooing/bell-clanging cows...

Not keen on the earlier refurb stations such as Central where it is very clinical white, but I do quite like the tiling at both Hamilton Square and Moorfields.

 

[bramling]

Not keen on the earlier refurb stations such as Central where it is very clinical white, but I do quite like the tiling at both Hamilton Square and Moorfields.

Must admit I’m not keen on any of the Merseyrail refurbs. Extremely sterile, even more so than recent LU refurbs, and to my eyes looks no better nor smarter than what was there before. Looks like a very cheapo job, and if it looks tatty after a couple of years then it’s going to look awful in 30.

 

[jamesst]

To be honest, that doesn't look very many (instances of skipping)

Also worth noting that there was significant disruption this morning (28/1) due to a passenger taken seriously ill at Capenhurst which even required the air ambulance.

 

[Horizon22]

The problem with any statistic is that a good overall average may well disguise a distinct problem one one line. And, if the skip stopping happens in the peaks, the % of passengers delayed will be proportionately greater.

Looking at their twitter:
28/1: 1730 ex Chester, 0915 Ex Liverpool, 0845 ex Chester and 0830 ex Liverpool all skipped everything between Hooton and Birkenhead.
27/1: 1020 ex Hamilton Sq, skipped Birkenhead to Hooton
25/1: 1300 ex Liverpool
24/1: 1659 ex Hooton, there was significant disruption on Friday morning for more serious reasons.
23/1: 2115 ex Liverpool

So over a 6 day period (4 weekdays) there were 5 peak time skip stops when there was no specific reason other than a the timetable is very tight. How much better the new trains will be remains to be seen, their website claims 5 mins faster each way from Chester to Liverpool so 10 mins on each diagram, less the time of an extra stop at Capenhurst.

That's not too bad at all, and an interesting interpretation of "peak".

 

[Class83]

That's not too bad at all, and an interesting interpretation of "peak".

To be honest, that doesn't look very many (instances of skipping)

Merseyrail am peak is anything before 0930, and although there aren't PM peak restrictions I included the 1659 and 1730 as they're around the time passengers are likely to be travelling home from work. 7 skip-stop services, 5 of which within the peak period on a weekday.

Over a 4 day period if just one of those trains was your planned commute that's down to an 87.5% reliability, (2 and it's 75%) and on Friday morning everything was delayed, albeit for circumstances outwith Merseyrail's control. That's basically saying to a passenger, that every week, your commute is going to be delayed either one morning or evening, which when the TOC is claiming 96% reliability in public, passengers standing on the platform watching their train rush by without stopping are not unreasonably going to take the statement with a pinch of salt.

Something always worth remembering, is that for most passengers in the North of England, driving is a viable alternative.

 

[Bletchleyite]

It would be interesting to see how much skip stopping there is now on the Ormskirks now they are self-contained and have a 12 minute layover at Ormskirk. There was never skip stopping in BR days, and that was the last time there was a 12 minute layover at Ormskirk.

 

[Djgr]

Merseyrail am peak is anything before 0930, and although there aren't PM peak restrictions I included the 1659 and 1730 as they're around the time passengers are likely to be travelling home from work. 7 skip-stop services, 5 of which within the peak period on a weekday.

Over a 4 day period if just one of those trains was your planned commute that's down to an 87.5% reliability, (2 and it's 75%) and on Friday morning everything was delayed, albeit for circumstances outwith Merseyrail's control. That's basically saying to a passenger, that every week, your commute is going to be delayed either one morning or evening, which when the TOC is claiming 96% reliability in public, passengers standing on the platform watching their train rush by without stopping are not unreasonably going to take the statement with a pinch of salt.

Something always worth remembering, is that for most passengers in the North of England, driving is a viable alternative.

Indeed, but that's playing with the stats. It's like saying that if your train happens to be the one cancelled each day then your personal reliability statistic is 0%. Your personal experience doesn't affect the overall corporate statistics.

Nobody thinks Merseyrail is perfect but they are in a different league from the likes of Northern. And for that, just as Northern should have accepted its failings like a grown up, Merseyrail should be given appropriate credit as due.

 

[Fawkes Cat]

That's basically saying to a passenger, that every week, your commute is going to be delayed either one morning or evening, which when the TOC is claiming 96% reliability in public, passengers standing on the platform watching their train rush by without stopping are not unreasonably going to take the statement with a pinch of salt.

In looking to respond to this, I was trying to find the source that Merseyrail relied on to blow their own trumpet. I haven't found it, but I have stumbled on this (dated 28 January 2020, so after the one Merseyrail like): https://www.transport-network.co.uk/Unreliability-and-cost-gripes-mar-rail-satisfaction/16420

Many passengers still experience ‘dire performance’ and remain unable to rely on their train service, according to the official passenger watchdog.
Transport Focus has released its latest National Rail Passenger Survey of almost 28,000 passengers, which reports that some areas have 'started to improve', as services became more reliable and new trains were introduced.

(...)

The best and worst performers were:

Overall satisfaction

‘Best in class’ – Heathrow Express (96%), Grand Central (94%), Hull Trains (92%), Merseyrail (91%), and Chiltern Railways (90%).

‘Must do better’ – Northern (72%), West Midlands Trains (73%), South Western Railway (74%), TransPennine Express (79%), and Transport for Wales (79%).

Punctuality/reliability

Best rated – Heathrow Express (95%), Grand Central (90%), and Merseyrail (91%).

Lowest rated – West Midlands Trains (60% - a drop of 15 percentage points), South Western Railway (63%), and Northern (65%).

Value for money

Best rated – Grand Central (75%), Merseyrail (67%), Hull Trains (65%) and Virgin Trains (64%).

Worst rated – South Western Railway (34%), Southeastern (39%), Thameslink (42), Great Northern (42 per cent), and Greater Anglia (43%).

I'm looking at the Punctuality/Reliabilty figures, not the Overall Satisfaction or Value for Money.

Two points from this
(1) Merseyrail don't seem to be doing quite as well by these metrics as in the case they reported
(2) Even so, let's go back to @Class83 's post: for someone commuting home to work five days a week, that's ten journeys (five out, five back). If one of them fails, that's a one in ten failure rate - or to put it another way, a 90% success ('reliability') rate. I agree with @Class83 that one failure a week is seriously disruptive to a traveller (although Merseyrail has a 15 minute service, so a train cancelled at your station's nothing like as disruptive as having your hourly service cancelled) - but the 90% that @Class83 finds unacceptable isn't very much different from the Transport Focus figure that I've found here (and still within range of the 96% that M'rail claimed), and although I only have partial figures here from Transport Focus, 90% reliability would still seem to be at the top end of what rail companies actually deliver.

 

[Y Ddraig Coch]

Indeed, but that's playing with the stats. It's like saying that if your train happens to be the one cancelled each day then your personal reliability statistic is 0%. Your personal experience doesn't affect the overall corporate statistics.

Nobody thinks Merseyrail is perfect but they are in a different league from the likes of Northern. And for that, just as Northern should have accepted its failings like a grown up, Merseyrail should be given appropriate credit as due.

Not sure I agree with this if #i understand what you are saying. If Merseyrail do something well and are good they should be given credit, I agree, but givng them credit just because they are better than arguably the worst operator out there is not credit worthy.

 

[Djgr]

In looking to respond to this, I was trying to find the source that Merseyrail relied on to blow their own trumpet. I haven't found it, but I have stumbled on this (dated 28 January 2020, so after the one Merseyrail like): https://www.transport-network.co.uk/Unreliability-and-cost-gripes-mar-rail-satisfaction/16420



I'm looking at the Punctuality/Reliabilty figures, not the Overall Satisfaction or Value for Money.

Two points from this
(1) Merseyrail don't seem to be doing quite as well by these metrics as in the case they reported
(2) Even so, let's go back to @Class83 's post: for someone commuting home to work five days a week, that's ten journeys (five out, five back). If one of them fails, that's a one in ten failure rate - or to put it another way, a 90% success ('reliability') rate. I agree with @Class83 that one failure a week is seriously disruptive to a traveller (although Merseyrail has a 15 minute service, so a train cancelled at your station's nothing like as disruptive as having your hourly service cancelled) - but the 90% that @Class83 finds unacceptable isn't very much different from the Transport Focus figure that I've found here (and still within range of the 96% that M'rail claimed), and although I only have partial figures here from Transport Focus, 90% reliability would still seem to be at the top end of what rail companies actually deliver.

It's not their own statistic. It is not just what they are claiming.

 

[Djgr]

Not sure I agree with this if #i understand what you are saying. If Merseyrail do something well and are good they should be given credit, I agree, but givng them credit just because they are better than arguably the worst operator out there is not credit worthy.

The credit is for being the most punctual operator 2nd year running, which I consider is worthy of praise.

Maybe it's my paranoia but I am starting to think this continual upplaying of Northern and downplaying Merseyrail reflects inbuilt regional prejudices.

 

[Y Ddraig Coch]

The credit is for being the most punctual operator 2nd year running, which I consider is worthy of praise.

Maybe it's my paranoia but I am starting to think this continual upplaying of Northern and downplaying Merseyrail reflects inbuilt regional prejudices.

Who is up playing Northern? Nobody I have seen on here.