Merseyrail overcharging Aintree racegoers?

[sprunt]

- but they didn't choose to do that. By queuing up at the booth marked 'Aintree Tickets' they chose the alternative of a ticket that would take them anywhere, any time on the Northern Line

I wish anyone arguing in court that a sign saying "Aintree tickets" would suggest to anyone that the thing being sold under it was a ticket to anywhere the very best of luck.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I wish anyone arguing in court that a sign saying "Aintree tickets" would suggest to anyone that the thing being sold under it was a ticket to anywhere the very best of luck.

If I went to a table signed "Aintree tickets" I would expect it to be selling single and return tickets to that station, not day rovers with validity in excess of what I need at an inflated price.

 

[joke2711]

@Bletchleyite Having been to Wembley with my club 3 times this decade (not bad for a team about to drop to the fourth tier) all I can tell you is that price surges have caused no end of debate on concertation amongst fans!



Do we know that all the extra revenue gained will not go towards subsidising Merseyside passengers, or in improvements for them away from the Grand National weekend?

in a perfect world it would but I doubt it.

Reminds me of when the golf was last on at Royal Liverpool and it was a 10 minute service. On the Sunday, just at the wrong time, a train heading towards Liverpool failed causing a backlog. Okay difficult decisions but for around 90 minutes Merseyrail terminated every train at Central and then ran empty to Hoylake. Great when you need to get to Hoylake but can't.

They don't care ... on many occassions in the past few months the 0845 West Kirby Service (6 coach) that often gets delayed due to passanger loading gets terminated at Birkenhead North as it has reached a 10 minute delay. Although I have no proof of this Merseyrail appear to take the view that it is easier to run it empty to depot rather than pick up an additional driver and guard at North so when split at West Kirby they have a team to return it empty to depot. They then say "well there is another train in 5 minutes" but this operation at North (checking the train is empty etc) delays the next New Brighton Service and subsequently the following West Kirby service.

They don't appear to understand that being late in work by 10 minutes is still preferable than being late in work 15 minutes plus.

Merseyrail may operate a more efficient service than Northern but their Customer Approach is really just as poor.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Merseyrail may operate a more efficient service than Northern but their Customer Approach is really just as poor.

The current management do like to run fast, turn short and stuff like that. The old approach, used fairly successfully for many years, was just to "step up" - as once a train got to 15 minutes late it was effectively the next one anyway, so you'd just cancel the one stuck in the middle. Historically Merseyrail never, ever skip-stopped (except for something like a station closed due to a fatality) and very, very rarely turned short - I think I experienced it once ever, and between 1979 (though I was a bit young at 0 to appreciate it!) and 2001 I mostly used it at least weekly in some form.

One issue might well be slower running and additional stations tightening the diagrams and taking out recovery time. Units used to lay over at Ormskirk for about 13 minutes (they would pass very near Ormskirk station itself), then at privatisation a unit was lopped out of the Ormskirk line circuit and this shortened to about 7 minutes, and has progressively become shorter as running times have increased from their original 28 minutes from Liverpool Central to Ormskirk to the present 34.

This has been caused by a number of changes - the first big change was hustle alarms, which added about 2 minutes in 1998 (prior to those the doors would be opening as the train stopped and closing about 10-15 seconds later), then we had staff being banned from keeping their door open while the train was moving adding a minute or so, then finally Maghull North adding to it again.

There was also a reduction in punctuality when crew changes started happening mid-run at Kirkdale - this didn't happen until about 1998. This probably also added a minute or so.

Hopefully the Stadler units can lop a bit back off with faster acceleration and door operation.

 

[Bantamzen]

in a perfect world it would but I doubt it.

Reminds me of when the golf was last on at Royal Liverpool and it was a 10 minute service. On the Sunday, just at the wrong time, a train heading towards Liverpool failed causing a backlog. Okay difficult decisions but for around 90 minutes Merseyrail terminated every train at Central and then ran empty to Hoylake. Great when you need to get to Hoylake but can't.

They don't care ... on many occassions in the past few months the 0845 West Kirby Service (6 coach) that often gets delayed due to passanger loading gets terminated at Birkenhead North as it has reached a 10 minute delay. Although I have no proof of this Merseyrail appear to take the view that it is easier to run it empty to depot rather than pick up an additional driver and guard at North so when split at West Kirby they have a team to return it empty to depot. They then say "well there is another train in 5 minutes" but this operation at North (checking the train is empty etc) delays the next New Brighton Service and subsequently the following West Kirby service.

They don't appear to understand that being late in work by 10 minutes is still preferable than being late in work 15 minutes plus.

Merseyrail may operate a more efficient service than Northern but their Customer Approach is really just as poor.

That may be the case, but it still doesn't mean that no passengers get any benefit from all those extra fivers collected. The more revenue they collect, the higher the likelihood that some will be re-invested into the business.

 

[lyndhurst25]

Apart from that RPIs have the power to sell tickets and the enterprising individual does not so its really not a good comparison

And with that power comes responsibility; the responsibility not to deceive and rip off passengers. I'd expect such spivery from a tout, not from a railway employee. The comparison is entirely valid.

 

[Llanigraham]

Complete nonsense. People do not look at the volume, they look at the price. People filling to the brim are very rare, and these days if you're not aiming for a price it's because you've pre-paid and the pump does it for you.

Nobody, err, average, thinks "I need 15 litres."

Really?
Everyone I know does this.

 

[Class83]

Booking offices did do this, if you read back up the thread.

Booking offices sold normal, single, return, day tickets.

The Event ticket was a queue-busting, pre-printed ticket, sold by Revenue Protection staff only.

Being fully literate, I did read that. But, I'm not sure whether Revenue Protection Staff, whether employed by the TOC directly, or a contractor employed by the TOC, are exempt from the requirement to offer the cheapest ticket valid for the journey any more than staff in the regular ticket office, which is actually more of a convenience store on Merseyrail.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Being fully literate, I did read that. But, I'm not sure whether Revenue Protection Staff, whether employed by the TOC directly, or a contractor employed by the TOC, are exempt from the requirement to offer the cheapest ticket valid for the journey any more than staff in the regular ticket office, which is actually more of a convenience store on Merseyrail.

A rubbish convenience store (doesn't even sell tea, just coffee) and a rubbish ticket office. A Tesco Express and a large bank of TVMs with ToD (plus perhaps one traditional window for awkward stuff) would be vastly preferable.

 

[jamesst]

They don't care ... on many occassions in the past few months the 0845 West Kirby Service (6 coach) that often gets delayed due to passanger loading gets terminated at Birkenhead North as it has reached a 10 minute delay. Although I have no proof of this Merseyrail appear to take the view that it is easier to run it empty to depot rather than pick up an additional driver and guard at North so when split at West Kirby they have a team to return it empty to depot. They then say "well there is another train in 5 minutes" but this operation at North (checking the train is empty etc) delays the next New Brighton Service and subsequently the following West Kirby service.

They don't appear to understand that being late in work by 10 minutes is still preferable than being late in work 15 minutes plus.

That particular service has a crew change at Birkenhead North with the original driver staying on to split the train at West Kirby. If it's late and gets terminated at Birkenhead it makes no difference to the crew change, it'll still go with 2 drivers to West Kirby just not in service.
The problem being that there's barely enough time as it is to detrain at West Kirby, stop passengers getting on (it's a place that they love to just ignore any announcements or instructions for some reason), split the units, board new passengers and leave in 9minutes. If it's late to West Kirby it will leave West Kirby on its next journey late leading to that journey probably being turned short at North.

 

[Fawkes Cat]

A rubbish convenience store (doesn't even sell tea, just coffee) and a rubbish ticket office. A Tesco Express and a large bank of TVMs with ToD (plus perhaps one traditional window for awkward stuff) would be vastly preferable.

<Concerned voice>

Neil, were you frightened by a small yellow train as a small child? This is beginning to feel like a pathological dislike of Merseyrail and everything they do. It seems to be that if anything isn't perfect, then that is more evidence that Merseyrail is dreadful, in every possible way.

</Concerned voice>

According to M'rail (who yes, aren't exactly unbiased) in the June 2018 figures they were in the top three franchises for customer satisfaction (https://www.merseyrail.org/news/the...eyrail-as-one-of-the-top-three-operators.aspx), and September 2018 national figures say that they are eighth best TOC for being on time / second best for being within five minutes, and second best for cancellations (https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...FjABegQIAhAB&usg=AOvVaw0LlPGlaeDx8EkEV1fNSudX). How good these figures will look after the recent strikes is an interesting question, but for the moment, objectively M'rail seems to be doing something right.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Neil, were you frightened by a small yellow train as a small child? This is beginning to feel like a pathological dislike of Merseyrail and everything they do. It seems to be that if anything isn't perfect, then that is more evidence that Merseyrail is dreadful, in every possible way.

They were blue back then!

I do have very mixed views on them as a TOC, yes, and am to some extent biased.

 

[mmh]

Really?
Everyone I know does this.

Yes, really. I worked in a filling station for 18 months.

 

[gray1404]

If anyone one the forum was sold one of these GBP5.00 tickets (I am using a keyboard without a pound sign atm) and required nothing more then a single or return to or from Aintree, would you be willing to email Merseyrail Customer Relations with a copy of the ticket (or other proof of purchase like a bank record if you no longer have the ticket), explain that you were over charged, remind them of their duty to sell the cheapest ticket and ask why this didn't happen and request the refund you are due? It would be very interesting to see what their reply is. Thanks!