Merseyrail Penalty Fare

[508-111]

Hi Guys , I have recieved a penalty fare on merseyrail for using a Arriva Staff Pass what i had used for a good while and i never had issues. Was ticket checked by RPI's , Guards and station staff. I was fine never had a problem until this time i got on and was RPI checked and was told it wasnt valid and they dont get discount or free travel on arriva etc and they issues me a Penalty Fare however the way it was issued was wrong , I was pressured into giving infomation , I also have autism and was scared and i ended up having a autism attack and i was not helped . I thought merseryrail would of had a duty of care like other transport companys , I was offered a ambulance however i did not want this. I was shaking and crying for 3 hours and i am now mentally scarred from this situation . I am so scared to travel on Merseyrail again . Now i understand ok maybe i was in the wrong for using a Arriva Staff Pass (Child) but this was so wrongly issues i think , a verbal warning would of been good enough and now as a result of what happened im scared to travel on merseyrail again! I appealed it and they are asking for proof i have austism now i thought this is wrong? They surley dont have any permission to ask me for proof of my health? As the was no disabled railcard or anything in this situation. Sort of just looking for advice . Thanks Guys

 

[methecooldude]

Just to clarify is it your staff pass? I assume as you note it's a child one, one (or both) of your parents work for Arriva. You should have been told where and when it's valid and if that does not include Merseyrail then that's that.

Can you post a copy of the PF you received? What makes you think "the way it was issued was wrong"?

Also, what do you define as "pressured", as you are required to give your name and address to an authorised member of staff if there is a suspect of a breach of the railway bylaws, which ticketless travel, and yes if your pass wasn't valid, then this would be, is such

 

[Knoodlepot]

When you post your Penalty Fare redact any personal info and the PF number.

 

[508-111]

s not helped . I thought merseryrail would of had a duty of care like other transport companys , I was offered a ambulance however i did not want this. I was shaking and crying for 3 hours and i am now mentally scarred from this situation . I am so scared to travel on Merseyrail again . Now i understand ok maybe i was in the wrong for using a Arriva Staff Pass (Child) but this was so wrongly issues i think , a verbal warning would of been good enough and now as a result of what happened im scared to trav

Just to clarify is it your staff pass? I assume as you note it's a child one, one (or both) of your parents work for Arriva. You should have been told where and when it's valid and if that does not include Merseyrail then that's that.

Can you post a copy of the PF you received? What makes you think "the way it was issued was wrong"?

Yes one of my parents work for arriva , i think it was wrongly issues because the times i have used it before and not had a issue probarly around 20 times or so. No i wasnt told what its valid on as my father wasnt told. Why would i need to post the PF notice? Just wondering. Thanks

 

[methecooldude]

Yes one of my parents work for arriva , i think it was wrongly issues because the times i have used it before and not had a issue probarly around 20 times or so. No i wasnt told what its valid on as my father wasnt told. Why would i need to post the PF notice? Just wondering. Thanks

Your misuse 20 times does not excuse the 21st time. Does you father know you've received this PF? You must tell him as it also puts his travel privileges at risk

 

[Knoodlepot]

Yes one of my parents work for arriva , i think it was wrongly issues because the times i have used it before and not had a issue probarly around 20 times or so. No i wasnt told what its valid on as my father wasnt told. Why would i need to post the PF notice? Just wondering. Thanks

Your father or mother who works for the railway will know the T&Cs most definitely.
Also misuse of the rail pass can cause issue for your parents as it can be taken away from them. You need to speak to your father and explain what happened.

The reason they ask for the PF on here is to see if there is any mistakes.

 

[508-111]

Your misuse 20 times does not excuse the 21st time. Does you father know you've received this PF? You must tell him as it also puts his travel privileges at risk

Yes he knows about it and yes i know it wouldnt but as i said a verbal warning would of been good enough! I would not of used it again

 

[JBuchananGB]

In order to give good advice the experts here need to see the PF document with which you were issued, and any subsequent correspondence, such as in relation to an appeal. It is not reasonable to assume that because you have made 20 journeys using this pass, that it is valid for those journeys. You just weren't challenged. I hope you have now asked your father whether the Arriva Staff Pass is valid on MerseyRail or not. It makes a big difference to how thing should proceed from here.

 

[methecooldude]

Yes he knows about it and yes i know it wouldnt but as i said a verbal warning would of been good enough! I would not of used it again

The ability to use a staff pass is highly privileged, and hence controlled. You have been *very* luckily to not have been caught out previously. If this was a standard customer, they would very quickly be reported for prosecution for 20 instances of fare evasion. The fact you have only received a PF and, at least from what you are saying, no report has been made to Rail Staff Travel (who issue the passes), that can cause your father a lot of problems

 

[508-111]

In order to give good advice the experts here need to see the PF document with which you were issued, and any subsequent correspondence, such as in relation to an appeal. It is not reasonable to assume that because you have made 20 journeys using this pass, that it is valid for those journeys. You just weren't challenged. I hope you have now asked your father whether the Arriva Staff Pass is valid on MerseyRail or not. It makes a big difference to how thing should proceed from here.

Yes and it is not valid as the RPI said so i will no longer use it . Lesson learned also maybe not 20 times but a couple of times maybe 7/8

 

[Knoodlepot]

If the Rail Delivery Group get wind of it they will report it to your fathers ToC as a Travel Irregularity which can cause a lot of problems like all travel privileges can be revoked.
A couple of times 8/7 is not good either.

 

[508-111]

The ability to use a staff pass is highly privileged, and hence controlled. You have been *very* luckily to not have been caught out previously. If this was a standard customer, they would very quickly be reported for prosecution for 20 instances of fare evasion. The fact you have only received a PF and, at least from what you are saying, no report has been made to Rail Staff Travel (who issue the passes), that can cause your father a lot of problems

Yes i know i dont think it was that many times i think thats a bit off . I think maybe 7/8 times but i will no longer use the staff pass on merseyrail as i know its not valid as the RPI said

If the Rail Delivery Group get wind of it they will report it to your fathers ToC as a Travel Irregularity which can cause a lot of problems like all travel privileges can be revoked.
A couple of times 8/7 is not good either.

Yes i know you said and like i said it wont happen again so thats not a problem

 

[Knoodlepot]

Yes i know i dont think it was that many times i think thats a bit off . I think maybe 7/8 times but i will no longer use the staff pass on merseyrail as i know its not valid as the RPI said


Yes i know you said and like i said it wont happen again so thats not a problem

Well it is a problem as you have been issued a PF. Nothing is stopping Mersey Rail reporting it to the RDG.

 

[508-111]

I never said there was but hopefully it won't and the RPI said he wouldnt report it as i promised i wouldnt use it again. I also told him about the previous times i have used it

 

[Knoodlepot]

I never said there was but hopefully it won't and the RPI said he wouldnt report it as i promised i wouldnt use it again. I also told him about the previous times i have used it

The RPI is very kind then.
But as mentioned before you need to post the PF slip. Redact all personal information and the PF number.
You will also need to post starting station.
End destination.
Time of travel.

Some of the pro's will be on tomorrow morning now probably and scrutinise the PF and find any mistakes. And also help you with an appeal.

 

[methecooldude]

Getting back to the original post, you mentioned about them asking for proof of your autism sounds like, at least to me, is someone in the appeals office is offering you an olive branch in the form of if you can show that, the PF may be dismissed as a "misunderstanding due to disability" (in a form). You have no obligation to show any kind of medical info, but if you don't want this PF hanging over your head, it may be wise to do so

 

[508-111]

The RPI is very kind then.
But as mentioned before you need to post the PF slip. Redact all personal information and the PF number.
You will also need to post starting station.
End destination.
Time of travel.

Some of the pro's will be on tomorrow morning now probably and scrutinise the PF and find any mistakes. And also help you with an appeal.

Yes i appreciate him for that. Ill post it up later

 

[gray1404]

Who does your father work for? Is it the Arriva Bus Company or an Arriva train company?

 

[Haywain]

Yes he knows about it and yes i know it wouldnt but as i said a verbal warning would of been good enough! I would not of used it again

But how would they know you hadn't been given verbal warnings before?

 

[chawky]

Hi Guys , I have recieved a penalty fare on merseyrail for using a Arriva Staff Pass what i had used for a good while and i never had issues. Was ticket checked by RPI's , Guards and station staff. I was fine never had a problem until this time i got on and was RPI checked and was told it wasnt valid and they dont get discount or free travel on arriva etc and they issues me a Penalty Fare however the way it was issued was wrong , I was pressured into giving infomation , I also have autism and was scared and i ended up having a autism attack and i was not helped . I thought merseryrail would of had a duty of care like other transport companys , I was offered a ambulance however i did not want this. I was shaking and crying for 3 hours and i am now mentally scarred from this situation . I am so scared to travel on Merseyrail again . Now i understand ok maybe i was in the wrong for using a Arriva Staff Pass (Child) but this was so wrongly issues i think , a verbal warning would of been good enough and now as a result of what happened im scared to travel on merseyrail again! I appealed it and they are asking for proof i have austism now i thought this is wrong? They surley dont have any permission to ask me for proof of my health? As the was no disabled railcard or anything in this situation. Sort of just looking for advice . Thanks Guys

I’m sorry this happened to you, it sounds a distressing situation. Do you get support for your autism? If it affected you badly, it might be worthwhile talking to a therapist so you feel comfortable travelling with them again.

Merseyrail will be asking for proof of your autism because I assume you referenced it in your appeal. It is only natural for them to ask for proof of any claims you have made in the appeal so they can consider it accurately. If you don’t provide proof then it is unlikely for the penalty fare to be revoked on that alone, otherwise everyone would try and get out of penalty fares by claiming they’re autistic.

 

[508-111]

Who does your father work for? Is it the Arriva Bus Company or an Arriva train company?

Arriva Bus Company

But how would they know you hadn't been given verbal warnings before?

They wouldnt however i dont lie i dont belive in that and i stated that. If they belive me thats correct because i dont lie if they dont belive me i cant help that

 

[Haywain]

Well thats there problem.

Well, it's not because there's a very good reason for not giving verbal warnings and the result of that is the problem you have now.

 

[methecooldude]

Arriva Bus Company

Oh dear, well, you can ignore any comments about RDG, as that's not relevant. However, as far as no know, there is nowhere outside London that bus staff get free travel on trains. I'm happy to be corrected on that tho

 

[508-111]

Well, it's not because there's a very good reason for not giving verbal warnings and the result of that is the problem you have now.

I know because im sure people get verbally warned just to do it again! And they know that so when actual people get into situations like this its a straight PF

Oh dear, well, you can ignore any comments about RDG, as that's not relevant. However, as far as no know, there is nowhere outside London that bus staff get free travel on trains. I'm happy to be corrected on that tho

Ahh ok thanks for that info , going back to the RDG comment that just seems like a threat. As the person commenting on it would do it.

 

[cool110]

Oh dear, well, you can ignore any comments about RDG, as that's not relevant. However, as far as no know, there is nowhere outside London that bus staff get free travel on trains. I'm happy to be corrected on that tho

Not free, but First bus staff can get a £6 day ranger for all First Group TOCs except Lumo. Don't know if Arriva have anything for their TOCs

 

[methecooldude]

Ahh ok thanks for that info , going back to the RDG comment that just seems like a threat. As the person commenting on it would do it.

Not at all, but in the case of rail staff passes, including child ones, they are issued by RDG under their Rail Staff Travel company (known as RSTL). It is part of the duty of any ticket checking staff that any misuse of a dependant pass should be reported to RSTL, does it happen in practice, not a lot, especially if the pass holder parents work at the same operator (in which case, its trivial to look up their number in the company directory, and have a words of advice for them).

Yours is a bus pass, so it's not administered by RSTL which is why the comments are not relevant, but there was no threat here

 

[508-111]

Not free, but First bus staff can get a £6 day ranger for all First Group TOCs except Lumo. Don't know if Arriva have anything for their TOCs

Ahh ok , what do arriva own now? XC and GC?

Not at all, but in the case of rail staff passes, including child ones, they are issued by RDG under their Rail Staff Travel company (known as RSTL). It is part of the duty of any ticket checking staff that any misuse of a dependant pass should be reported to RSTL, does it happen in practice, not a lot, especially if the pass holder parents work at the same operator (in which case, its trivial to look up their number in the company directory, and have a words of advice for them).

Yours is a bus pass, so it's not administered by RSTL which is why the comments are not relevant, but there was no threat here

Ok , i understand now . Thank you for explaining this.

 

[cool110]

Ahh ok , what do arriva own now? XC and GC?

Those, Chiltern, and LO.

 

[508-111]

Those, Chiltern, and LO.

Cheers

 

[gray1404]

We need to have the details of the journey made, where you were stopped and a copy of the PF notice.