Merseyrail Penalty Fare

[508-111]

We need to have the details of the journey made, where you were stopped and a copy of the PF notice.

Journey was from Bidston to James street and i was checked at Birkenhead north and the PF was issued at Birkenhead Park

 

[gray1404]

Journey was from Bidston to James street and i was checked at Birkenhead north and the PF was issued at Birkenhead Park

Are you going to post a copy of it? Plus details of your appeal and their reply.

 

[skyhigh]

Cheers

Just to be clear, unless it has changed, an Arriva bus pass has no validity on Chiltern, XC, or GC. Do not attempt to use it on their trains unless you have specifically been told it is valid.

 

[508-111]

Just to be clear, unless it has changed, an Arriva bus pass has no validity on Chiltern, XC, or GC. Do not attempt to use it on their trains unless you have specifically been told it is valid.

i know , thanks for saying though

 

[WirralLine]

With all due respect 508-111, I have known you personally for a number of years and have warned you of this for a while now. You are well aware these aren't valid.

 

[furlong]

How old are you?

 

[508-111]

With all due respect 508-111, I have known you personally for a number of years and have warned you of this for a while now. You are well aware these aren't valid.

I know there not valid , but being able to use it countless times and then being fined ok yeah i see were merseyrail are coming from but the issue is the way it was handled here not the fine itself

How old are you?

18

 

[Dai Corner]

18

Is the pass valid for children of staff over 18? I would stop using it until you've checked the terms and conditions and return or destroy it if you aren't entitled to it. Your parent could get into trouble at work if Arriva find out it's being misused.

 

[SteveM70]

I know there not valid , but being able to use it countless times and then being fined ok yeah i see were merseyrail are coming from but the issue is the way it was handled here not the fine itself

So we started with 20 times, then it was a couple of times, then it was 7/8 times, and now its countless times??

 

[dosxuk]

I know there not valid , but being able to use it countless times and then being fined ok yeah i see were merseyrail are coming from but the issue is the way it was handled here not the fine itself

I think you have been very lucky to only have received a penalty fare. I would suggest you pay it and mark it down as a life lesson.

While you stated that you don't lie, you certainly seem to be quite content to manipulate the information you supply to present yourself in the best possible light.

It now seems clear that not only have you used this pass on multiple occasions, you knew it wasn't valid, and somehow fooled yourself into thinking all that could happen is you would get a verbal warning if anyone stopped you. I suspect this warning has happened in the past, considering how upset you are when you didn't get one on this occasion.

There are consequences for repeated and flagrant breaches of the ticketing rules, and I'm afraid you've just run head first into them. Consider yourself lucky you're dealing with a penalty fare and not being reported for prosecution.

 

[AlterEgo]

I know there not valid , but being able to use it countless times and then being fined ok yeah i see were merseyrail are coming from but the issue is the way it was handled here not the fine itself

You’d have a bigger issue if you were getting prosecuted, which is really what ought to happen. You also put your dad’s job at risk; misuse of travel facilities is a very serious matter. Wise up.

 

[Haywain]

I know there not valid , but being able to use it countless times and then being fined ok yeah i see were merseyrail are coming from but the issue is the way it was handled here not the fine itself

So much for verbal warnings.

 

[Hadders]

Just because you have got away with using the pass before doesn't mean it's valid.

If the pass isn't valid then you're fortunate that you've only been issued with a Penalty Fare. We know from cases in this section of the forum that Merseyrail are one of the more robust TOCs when it comes to dealing with ticketing irregularities.

You have already put your dad at risk of disciplicary action being taken against him at work, is this what you want? If not STOP using this pass now.

As others have said, we really need to see the paperwork you were issued with to be able to comment further.

 

[John R]

I know there not valid , but being able to use it countless times and then being fined ok yeah i see were merseyrail are coming from but the issue is the way it was handled here not the fine itself


18

So you knew all along that it wasn’t valid, and then complain that the revenue inspector had the nerve to Penalty Fare you? And you are still complaining about the “way it was handled”?

 

[azOOOOOma]

So much for verbal warnings.

If someone knowingly and repeatedly uses a pass that they know to be not valid for their journey type, then I’d assert that a verbal warning is not appropriate. If you’re only going to get a verbal warning once every 20 trips (or ‘7/8’), then what’s the incentive to stop fraudulently travelling?

Who, in your opinion, should be getting penalty fares, if anyone?

 

[methecooldude]

No i wasnt told what its valid on as my father wasnt told.

I know there not valid , but being able to use it countless times....

So not only did you know it wasn't valid, but you also lied to us who have nothing to gain from you telling the truth. So much for

...however i dont lie i dont belive in that...

I'm going to be blunt with you 508-111, as someone who has a partner and brother with autism, I do not like anyone who tries to use their disability to get special treatment if they have done something they absolutely know to be wrong. Do you know how many times in a working week I hear "I didnt know, I wont do it again"

The fact here is that you KNEW the pass wasn't valid on any rail service yet you decided to use it 20/7 or 8/countless times, I reiterate that you have been *extremely* lucky not to have been caught before, and even more so to only be given a PF...

With all due respect 508-111, I have known you personally for a number of years and have warned you of this for a while now. You are well aware these aren't valid.

You've even been told by someone who knows you personally, whom I assume doesn't work for the railway (I dont know) and hence those words of advise should have been taken on board to avoid this situation.

As for the PF, just get it paid, that's the end of that and stop using the pass when you know you shouldn't. You've already said you are 18, so I think the child pass is no longer valid for your use, but Arriva bus might have different rules, you'll need to ask your father to clarify with his company.

 

[gray1404]

So you have knowingly used a pass you knew not to be valid (I see you have been warned by a forum member your pass was not valid) and you are now trying to use your autism as an excuse for this. You have also provided conflicting information on here.

Based on the number of times you initially said you had used the pass on Merseyrail, if we work out the value of the fares you should have paid, I think you should pay the PF at the reduced rate while it is available to you.

However given you have started an appeal already and they have asked for proof of your disability, you might want to reply to them providing this as there is a possibility they may be looking for a basis to uphold your appeal. I suspect the fare will still be payable though.

Then see about getting:

1. any Railcards you may be entitled to (check out the disabled persons Railcard first as it is cheaper, no time restrictions or minimum fare, does not require a photo, has less restrictions and someone can travel with you, before looking at the 16-25 Railcard - which you will 100% be entitled to due to your age).

2. while you are 18 (it will stop once you turn 19) you can get a discount on Merseyrail anyway with proof of age without the need for a railcard. I believe this discount is on day saver tickets and you pay the young person rate (which is the same as a child priced day saver, however it must be issued correctly as a young person ticket and not a child).

3. you could also see about applying for a free travel pass on the basis of your disability from Merseytravel.

 

[Haywain]

Who, in your opinion, should be getting penalty fares, if anyone?

I have no idea why you appear to be asking me this.

then I’d assert that a verbal warning is not appropriate.

I was emphasising that the OP's belief that a verbal warning was appropriate and sufficient had been clearly disproved.

 

[azOOOOOma]

Apologies hun, I must have misinterpreted your post.

Laura x

 

[scrapy]

Do you live in Merseyside? Does your autism qualify you for a ENCTS disabled pass? If the answer to both is yes you can get free travel on Merseyrail in the future (once you have a pass).

Alternatively if you already have such a pass, you would have been entitled to free travel had you shown the pass instead of the Arriva one, so may have grounds for appeal.