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Merseyrail to be separated from GBR ?

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Trainer2

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Look what the Liverpudlian in the yard found in this article -

But taking public ownership of the trains themselves isn't going to be enough for the ambitious Metro Mayor.

He revealed he is in talks with government to take the whole local rail network - including tracks, stations and all infrastructure - into public control.

He said: "That is ultimately where we want to be - we want the people of this region to own their whole rail network."

He added: "This - along with bus franchsing - would allow us to link the timetables of Merseyrail with the buses in the region so that the system was fully integrated and allowed people to easily get around the region."

10 or so years ago they asked Serco Abellio if they where interested in taking in the infrastructure and they said no. What’s changed?
Who can you blame for delay minutes when you own it all?
 
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zwk500

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10 or so years ago they asked Serco Abellio if they where interested in taking in the infrastructure and they said no. What’s changed?
As far as I can see it's the Mayor not the operator who wants it under his control? I guess what's changed is that the franchisee didn't want to tie itself into a very expensive maintenance commitment, but the City council is looking at London in particular and thinking it might be able to work better without as much Westminster involvement.
 

185

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Who can you blame for delay minutes when you own it all?
People's Republic of Merseyside Railways!

All in all broadly support this, with the exception of any fragmentation of the national ticketing system - last thing I want to see is an expansion of the Greater Manchester stupidity where Metrolink is a totally separate ticketing system, you want to go from London to Bury? Forget it, even if there is a ticket buried away, staff need to know the zone for it, issuing restriction, no railcards... Want to go from London to Hoylake - bing ... there's the fare.
 

LNW-GW Joint

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The article is mostly about ticketing and buses.
The GBR announcement says that devolved networks will continue with their own fares policies.
Merseyrail has always been a hybrid of half-local, half-National Rail.

On the trains, which are barely mentioned:
Merseyrail (infrastructure) is already under public ownership, it's just with Network Rail rather than locally.
Merseyrail (operator) is a concession managed by Merseytravel, and is already Steve Rotheram's baby.
The new trains are in public ownership (by Merseytravel).
I'm not sure how much more control they can take.
Abellio and Stadler are there as delivery/maintenance contractors for another decade at least.
But the City Region's transport brief extends well beyond Merseyrail.

Such rail investment as there has been recently (eg the Halton Curve) has been because of the Liverpool City Region Deal between the Mayor (Steve Rotheram) and the government (Treasury/DfT).
I doubt they are going to bite the hand that feeds it.
 

Bletchleyite

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I don't think Network Rail is their main target, it's more they want all-modes regulation more similar to what Manchester is pushing for.

That said, I'm sure they will be aiming to fend off any attempt to de-devolve (!) the TOC.
 

zwk500

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People's Republic of Merseyside Railways!

All in all broadly support this, with the exception of any fragmentation of the national ticketing system - last thing I want to see is an expansion of the Greater Manchester stupidity where Metrolink is a totally separate ticketing system, you want to go from London to Bury? Forget it, even if there is a ticket buried away, staff need to know the zone for it, issuing restriction, no railcards... Want to go from London to Hoylake - bing ... there's the fare.
On the ticketing front, given Manchester and Liverpool both have at least some form of Zonal ticketing, surely a travelcard-type National Rail ticket could be workable? Would need the buses to be integrated into Metrolink/Merseyrail zones but it's perfectly feasible.
 

Bletchleyite

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On the ticketing front, given Manchester and Liverpool both have at least some form of Zonal ticketing, surely a travelcard-type National Rail ticket could be workable? Would need the buses to be integrated into Metrolink/Merseyrail zones but it's perfectly feasible.

The issue with Merseyside and through ticketing is not really one of it being a destination - that model could work, but also contactless will be along soon which eases "rebooking" to no effort at all.

The big problem Merseyrail poses with regard to through ticketing - which Metrolink largely doesn't suffer, except if going towards Oldham - is that most of its lines run north to south, but most regional type journeys will go to the east. For example, if you live on the Ormskirk line towards its northern end, a trip to Manchester can be sensible via Preston, the Burscoughs, Kirkby or Liverpool (with 2 sensible routes that way). As things stand most such fares are not routed so you can pick and choose whatever suits your timing or preference. You can find a similar situation on the Southport and Chester/Ellesmere Port lines too.

If Merseyrail ticketing was separated off, you would have to choose your route in advance or pay for expensive singles, because you'd need a Merseyrail ticket/contactless "tap" then a ticket to Manchester from Preston, Ormskirk/Burscough, Kirkby or Liverpool Lime St respectively.

Of course, it is also fixed, as almost every awkward ticketing problem is, by a move to single-fare pricing on all fares throughout the national system, as you'd simply purchase your single home once you'd decided your route.
 

Gareth

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Merseytravel were offered vertical integration after years of pushing for it. Then they suddenly changed their mind.
 

Trainer2

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Merseytravel were offered vertical integration after years of pushing for it. Then they suddenly changed their mind.
Correct and why the mayor may think it’s a good idea, Serco Abellio may not agree
 

Energy

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Don't NR still manage the infrastructure for London Overground and that works fine? I can't see much advantage for Merseytravel ownership.
 

LNW-GW Joint

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Merseytravel were offered vertical integration after years of pushing for it. Then they suddenly changed their mind.

Correct and why the mayor may think it’s a good idea, Serco Abellio may not agree

I think Merseytravel saw the cost of things like the Loop slab track replacement and realised they actually had a good deal from NR.
I'm not sure Serco/Abellio care very much, they just run the trains under the concession (with Stadler now).
Who owns the infrastructure isn't very relevant to them.
 
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