Merseytravel Saveaway validity

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185143

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BRFares lists the saveaway as being valid anytime, whilst the Merseytravel website says that it isnt valid for journeys starting between 06:31 and 09:29. Which is correct?
 
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Statto

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Yes; but just like the trains it is the timetabled (not actual) departure time that counts.


Indeed, you can pass through ticket barriers/board trains before 6.30am on a normal weekday using Saveaway tickets, & alight well after 6.30am, Merseyside is one of the few areas that still have off peak travel & ticket validity before 6.30am normal weekday.

The restrictions are quite odd for those who don't use Saveaways or not used to the system, if the train is timed to depart 6.27am Saveaway is valid but from the next station departure is 6.30am it won't be valid unless you're already on the train, you're also allowed to connect with other trains past 6.30am if boarded before 6.30am as long as you don't exit the station passing through ticket/ checks/barriers.
 

185143

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Indeed, you can pass through ticket barriers/board trains before 6.30am on a normal weekday using Saveaway tickets, & alight well after 6.30am, Merseyside is one of the few areas that still have off peak travel & ticket validity before 6.30am normal weekday.

The restrictions are quite odd for those who don't use Saveaways or not used to the system, if the train is timed to depart 6.27am Saveaway is valid but from the next station departure is 6.30am it won't be valid unless you're already on the train, you're also allowed to connect with other trains past 6.30am if boarded before 6.30am as long as you don't exit the station passing through ticket/ checks/barriers.
If ive understood that correctly, you are saying that you can't travel, say, St. Helens to Southport as you will need to pass through the barriers onto the Low Level platform at Lime Street?
 

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If ive understood that correctly, you are saying that you can't travel, say, St. Helens to Southport as you will need to pass through the barriers onto the Low Level platform at Lime Street?
You could travel St Helens - Edge Hill/Lime Street - Hunts Cross - Southport, adding ~45 minutes to journey time, but you couldn't change directly at Lime Street.
Bus drivers being bus drivers, they are more likely to look at their watch.
Still doesn't change the fact that's it's the scheduled departure time that determines validity, as per the terms and conditions.
 
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Statto

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You could travel St Helens - Edge Hill/Lime Street - South Parkway - Southport, adding ~45 minutes to journey time, but you couldn't change directly at Lime Street.

There are now ticket barriers at Liverpool South Parkway so you wouldn't be able to do that journey.
 

Statto

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If ive understood that correctly, you are saying that you can't travel, say, St. Helens to Southport as you will need to pass through the barriers onto the Low Level platform at Lime Street?

As mentioned you can't do that journey as you're passing through barriers from the main platforms, & the barriers again onto the low level platforms, there was a thread recently on here with this type of journey query.
 

Bletchleyite

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Still doesn't change the fact that's it's the scheduled departure time that determines validity, as per the terms and conditions.

Still doesn't, unless you use a smartcard one, stop the way bus drivers work meaning if 9:30 has passed it will almost certainly be accepted (or that if 6:30 has passed it won't). The only remedy is likely going to be to complain afterwards.

Crikey, a friend was refused to use his Arriva weekly pass on the 300 in MK because it's the premium service. All Arriva passes are valid on it, but as the driver got that in his head somehow that was what went until a complaint was made afterwards.
 

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Not between different platforms.

There is barriers to the high level platforms & a separate barrier to the Merseyrail platforms although they wasn't operating when i passed through.

Actually to do the journey you could go through Hunts Cross rather than Liverpool South Parkway
 

Merseysider

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Arriva bus drivers haven't exactly got a great reputation round my ways either but telling that story would be going a liiiiiittle off topic.

I would hope ITSO readers on the buses are programmed to accept Saveaway tickets loaded onto the (ridiculously named) Walrus smartcard, when tapped before 0630.
Statto said:
Actually to do the journey you could go through Hunts Cross rather than Liverpool South Parkway
Yeah, that would work :)
 
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185143

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Would this be valid then?
06:16 Hough Green-Hunts Cross
06:36 Hunts Cross-Liverpool Ctl
07:15 Liverpool Ctl-Chester
 

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Statto

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Side note LPY isn't a bad station to wait for trains at, the bridge to the City line platforms is covered with glass side panelling so you can see approaching trains from either end without going onto the platforms, & you can see Allerton TMD.
 

kieron

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If ive understood that correctly, you are saying that you can't travel, say, St. Helens to Southport as you will need to pass through the barriers onto the Low Level platform at Lime Street?
You don't need to pass through the barriers for the low level platform. I don't know what your options are for avoiding the high level barriers, though. Getting a train to Liverpool South Parkway and back could work, but it's probably slower than using Merseyrail to Hunts Cross.
 

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An LM service from South Parkway to Lime Street would arrive on P7/8/9 which are unbarriered.

Then using the lift in Lime Street wouldn't go through a barrier either. So that would fall within Merseyrail's definition of a single journey.
 

185143

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An LM service from South Parkway to Lime Street would arrive on P7/8/9 which are unbarriered.

Then using the lift in Lime Street wouldn't go through a barrier either. So that would fall within Merseyrail's definition of a single journey.
So they're basically telling you to go out of your way to avoid a ticket check?!!
 

Bletchleyite

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... So not a loophole at all then.

A concession, if you prefer.

It makes sense to regulate it based on passing ticket barriers/bus drivers as that is where almost all revenue protection on Merseyside takes place.

It could otherwise be:

- Not valid from start of service to 0930
- Not valid for any journey continuing across 06whatever-it-was
- Not valid for boarding any vehicle after 06whatever-it-was

The other option of "not valid for any journey starting after 06whatever-it-was" is not viable because everyone travelling up to around 0730 could just claim they'd come from somewhere else with no real opportunity to prove they didn't.

So whatever you call it, it allows journeys that would by almost any other sensible definition not be allowed.
 

button_boxer

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I would hope ITSO readers on the buses are programmed to accept Saveaway tickets loaded onto the (ridiculously named) Walrus smartcard, when tapped before 0630.

Yes, and that is the problem - that would be the actual boarding time rather than the scheduled departure time of the service. Strict adherence to the T&C would mean that a bus scheduled as 06:29 but running two minutes late should accept a Saveaway, but one scheduled at 06:31 running to time should not.
 

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So they're basically telling you to go out of your way to avoid a ticket check?!!
Most people who travel by train before 6.30 place too high a monetary value on their time to do that. I don't think there's any great principle in this rule, but that it's just an easy one to enforce.
 

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Most people who travel by train before 6.30 place too high a monetary value on their time to do that. I don't think there's any great principle in this rule, but that it's just an easy one to enforce.

Indeed, and it does offer concessions to early morning travellers as compared to the easier option of "not from start of service to 0930".
 
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