Mesh WiFi networks?

[gswindale]

Hi,

Does anybody here have any experience of using mesh WiFi networks such as either BT's complete WiFi or their Whole Home version?

We have a 4bed house (bedroom 1 was an extension over what was originally a detached garage) and do have WiFi issues in some parts of the house and also the garden.

I've tried various things in the past including an old BT WiFi extender, but that often results in devices being connected to the wrong SSID, so wondering if a mesh system is the way forward?

I'm leaning towards the complete WiFi option from BT as I can use my existing router as the base and so don't need to plug/wire anything else in next to the router once setup.

 

[lkpridgeon]

It depends what you are after, the thickness of your walls and distance. Generally speaking distance increases latency time it takes for your request to reach the destination) and decreases speed.

When you add another wifi based repeater into the mix the signal will get boosted and increase the speed/range if suitably located. In some cases you may need multiple in a chain to cover a suitable distance however this'll adversely reflect latency. Generally this is fine for normal browsing however may adversely affect time sensitive applications such as VoIP/teleconferencing/gaming as it adds a delay to the connection.

The BT extender has a different id because the extender acts independently of the main "hub". Mesh networking solves this as the different access points talk with eachother to gracefully handover devices however this will only really before devices that are moving around the house.

For devices in a static location I would suggest getting a powerline ethernet adapter (about £20-30) then run a wire to the device or use the existing range extender that you have. If you've a deadspot already devices that are roaming would just connect to that access point anyway. With the benefit being lower latency and consistent speeds. However yes you do have a wire or two to deal with.

I don't currently use the BT discs so can't comment on them. My current setup involves multiple tp-link wi-fi access points and powerline ethernet adapter to a central network switch (that happens to be in my home office) that gives my main devices as close to a good connection as is feasible in an old house with thick walls (3ms latency to the router vs 21ms-30ms over wi-fi). However this is all due to be ripped up soon as I'm moving to a Cisco based solution (for experimentation reasons as part of my day job).

Tldr; your mileage may vary and whilst it may give you "whole home wi-fi" it might not be fit for purpose depending on use-case.

 

[The Ham]

I've also considered a mesh system, but settled for a tp-link device which can be used as part of a mesh system but also acts as a range extender as a stepping stone to the next step if we were to take it at a later date (as we are considering extending our home so may need more points later).

I've got two questions which I'd like answered, if people have experience of it.

First up, I've got small children who have tablets with strict parental controls, however over time we would like to give them more independence, however we've also found that the tablets often only stop access when the apps aren't running. How easy is it to monitor and block access and control time limits by device (I suspect that the answer is it depends on the system used)?

Secondly, is it possible to have the link between the main hub and the nodes to be wired (either cat6 cables or powerline) so that the delay is minimised?

 

[gswindale]

Thanks,

I do have a powerline setup in the mix for my other half's work requirements.

It is mainly mobile devices (phones & tablets) where we have an issue - quite often when speaking to my parents on Skype my tablet appears to be connected to the weakest signal in the house and certainly sitting on the patio results in a very poor connection. Most of the time though, the mobile devices are used for general browsing and possibly a bit of YouTube viewing.

We're also looking at extending the kitchen out, so may need to ensure that the connection can reach out there as well.

 

[StewLane]

I used to use powerline but they needed rebooting fairly oftenand the Wi-Fi from them was not great. I now have 3 BT disks and not only is it a more stable setup but they cope with large number of devices unlike the Virgin hub (which now has its Wi-Fi switched off)

 

[Diplodicus]

I have a three-node Linksys Velop m

... Velop mesh rhrough our sprawling old cottage and new-build extention. It is linked directly to our Virgin router and has just told me (Speedtest") that I am running at 600+mbps. I have "bridged" it so there is just one SSID across the property and the system offers me "guest w-fi" on its own separate SSID.

The single SSID was important as I started down the path of Apple Homekit, Sonos and Logitech integration.

Very happy with Linksys and their tech support was both responsive and effective. About to purchase more!!

 

[mbonwick]

Mesh is a poor second to having hardwired access points, but still far better than WiFi extenders.

My suggestions, in order of preference/ease would be:
1. Look at getting a new "main" router - despite the claims, ISP supplied equipment is still nowhere near the performance/range of recognised tech brands.
2. Look at running Cat 6 cable and setting up access points (old routers are easily repurposed for this and can be had for almost nothing) - use the same SSID and your devices will roam without you needing to worry.
3. Only after discounting 1 & 2 should you look at a Mesh system.

 

[gswindale]

Thanks,

Have tried alternative routers in the past (tried a PC Pro A list model a few years back). Performance was never that much better, so not really keen on trying that again! I've also found in the past that whatever model I'd buy, the performance would drop after a year or so - not so with my current BT hub - that still seems as good as when we got it 18+ months ago.

Would possibly consider Cat6 cabling, but don't think there is an easy way to do it discretely without taking up flooring or hacking out bits of wall. Certainly don't want metres of cabling running loose up the stairs (no matter how carefully I'd run it, the resident 2 year old & cats would have it out in no time!)

 

[najaB]

Does anybody here have any experience of using mesh WiFi networks such as either BT's complete WiFi or their Whole Home version?

Not specifically the BT offering but other mesh solutions. As with everything you get what you pay for, some of the cheaper mesh networks are worse than nothing as your throughput will be almost zero or devices will get stuck on the wrong access point. A friend of mine is fortunate enough to live half of a Victorian manse but that does mean that he's had to go through several generations of network to get to a solution that works.

He's finally settled on TP-Link Omada access points and their SDN controller. He's using wired connections between the APs and controller (can be powerline if that works for you) but they can use mesh as well.

 

[Crossover]

My parents house has had a BT Whole Home (4 disks) for a couple of years - we upgraded from an extender that used to drop everytime the microwave was used.

Very easy to set up and use thereafter. The latency is a bit higher across the mesh than a direct connection but it has been emminently usable and has worked well for streaming HD video on the Smart TV and I worked from home off it last year for a few months without problem (on the old extender, I struggled to maintain a VPN connection at times!)

Not cheap, but I would recommend them off my "fit and forget" experience. I work in IT and could have probably built a more complex solution but really just wanted something that worked and kept the family happy and didn't require a lot of maintenance.

The only problem I had with it was my Nintendo Switch didn't handoff properly (usually found when it would drop halfway through a group game!) and I had to put it into flight mode and back to normal to get it picking up the nearest access point. Handoff for other devices never seemed to be a problem

 

[maniacmartin]

I have the BT Whole Home (white disks). I've found it to be very reliable and the coverage and speed to be good - much better than wifi extenders and powerlines which have always had reliability issues for me in the past. The latency is also better than using powerlines. They're aimed at non-technical people, so there is very little to configure. I would 100% recommend them

You get 2 SSIDs - one for you and one that you can use for guests, which from my poking around puts devices in the same subnet and broadcast domain, but blocks packets going from the guest SSID to the private SSID based on MAC address. The Whole Home does not do any routing, DHCP or NAT as its a purely layer 2 device (apart from the IP it has for configuring it via the iPhone/Android app), so you need to use your existing router for that.

If you have a BT Homehub router, note that whilst the optional wifi disks you can get with that look almost identical (except they're black not white), I have not found a way to mesh with the Homehub wifi, so you're probably best disabling wifi on the Homehub to stop devices wondering onto its wifi and not roaming around the mesh. Another bonus is if you have wired devices that you want to join to the network that are not situated near the router, you can plug them into the RJ45 port on the back of one of the mesh APs and it will just work. I have an upstairs printer connected this way.

The BT Whole Home doesn't do any parental filtering as it just passes the traffic straight through, but you can use your existing router to do this if it has the features (filter by device MAC address etc)

 

[eoff]

No idea what mesh means in technical terms but I have two Ubiquiti access points (hardwired to a PoE switch).
These need a device to manage them (a small ethernet-connected device in my case) and some knowledge of networking.
One AP per floor of the house. Router is separate.
I think many other manufacturers are offering this sort of product nowadays.

 

[najaB]

No idea what mesh means in technical terms but I have two Ubiquiti access points (hardwired to a PoE switch).
These need a device to manage them (a small ethernet-connected device in my case) and some knowledge of networking.

That's a managed network. Similar idea but not quite the same. Main difference is that in a mesh each AP has intelligence, in a managed network all the processing happens centrally - in the small Ethernet-connected device in your case.

 

[eoff]

Not quite, the management is central, in my case with the "cloud key" but that management can be via a pi or another computer.
The management is only really needed for setup/updates but useful for stats, you can run the APs without it once they are setup.
I can log into an AP, it is certainly intelligent.

 

[maniacmartin]

I would count the Ubiquiti as a mesh too, just one that has a fancy management node. They are a bit more complicated for the the average user to setup though, and in my opinion a bit overkill for most home users' needs

 

[Ediswan]

I would count the Ubiquiti as a mesh too, just one that has a fancy management node. They are a bit more complicated for the the average user to setup though, and in my opinion a bit overkill for most home users' needs

Unless it has changed in the last few months, Ubiquiti is not a mesh. All access points (AP) are wired. Packets arriving over wifi are forwarded over a wired connection. In mesh networks, not all APs are wired. Packets are forward over wifi until they reach a wired AP, which could be multiple wifi hops.

(I agree that Ubiquiti is overkill for most home users.)

 

[eoff]

I have a look and you can enable meshing (no ethernet) for APs with Ubiquiti.
But yes, these products are not appropraite for the majority of home users.

For what it is worth, on another forum I visit, people have reported various hard-to-solve issues with powerline adaptors after some time.

 

[Ediswan]

I have a look and you can enable meshing (no ethernet) for APs with Ubiquiti.

Fair enough. I suspect that as I had ethernet/wired for all APs, I skipped over the mesh models.

 

[EssexGonzo]

I have Google WiFi. 1 x Home router attached by Ethernet to the ISP’s (Plusnet) router plus 4 other Google WiFi points daisy-chained around the house and garden.

After years of struggling with a Wi-Fi signal (1930’s house with every wall double bricked) it was a revelation and an absolute piece of cake to configure. I can also sit at the end of a 35m garden with the 5th point plugged into an outside socket and work on Teams calls with video.

Now that I’ve set it up, when I changed to FTTP soon with another ISP, I can just plug this setup into the new ISP point and it’ll work immediately.

I have disabled the ISP router’s WiFi network to avoid conflict.

I previously tried a second standard router and power line adapters - all were difficult.

 

[eoff]

I have Google WiFi. 1 x Home router attached by Ethernet to the ISP’s (Plusnet) router plus 4 other Google WiFi points daisy-chained around the house and garden.

After years of struggling with a Wi-Fi signal (1930’s house with every wall double bricked) ...

I have internal brick walls as well and find that for example in the living room the best signal is from the AP upstairs and not the closest one downstairs where the path is through a wall or two. One reason I went for APs is that it is a separation of concerns from an integrated all in one router/modem.

 

[Bald Rick]

After various battles with the WiFi I caved in and shelled out for the BT home hub - 3 discs. It’s brilliant, covers all parts of the house (we have masonry walls), down the bottom of the garden, on the drive, and even next door but one. Leaving aside all the home-tech connected to it (door bell, heating controls, Alexas, etc) there’s rarely fewer than 6 devices connected, half of which are near constantly streaming, and it never bats an eyelid.

 

[Mojo]

Sorry for hijacking this thread for a question, and not sure if it’s the right thing or not, but basically I have fairly good coverage inside my house and in the front garden (the hub that I have is by the front door as that’s where the phone socket is).

However I have a garden studio which is detached from the main house where the signal can be quite patchy. It’s generally fine on my laptop but my smart plugs and mobile phone can be quite intermittent (they are often shown up as online but I’d probably say half the day they’ll be offline).

What’s the best option for me? I’ve been given a Belkin router with two antenna which I could try, or should I try one of those plug-in wifi extenders by the back door?

 

[najaB]

What’s the best option for me? I’ve been given a Belkin router with two antenna which I could try, or should I try one of those plug-in wifi extenders by the back door?

The best option is always going to be running an Ethernet cable out to the studio to an access point (which could be the Belkin). If that's not feasible then I would either: (a) see if powerline adaptors will work - it depends on how the mains power has been run to the studio and again run the Belkin as an access point; or (b) see if the Belkin can run in repeater/extender mode and put it somewhere close to the back door where it gets a decent signal from the main router.

 

[Energy]

The best option is always going to be running an Ethernet cable out to the studio to an access point (which could be the Belkin). If that's not feasible then I would either: (a) see if powerline adaptors will work - it depends on how the mains power has been run to the studio and again run the Belkin as an access point; or (b) see if the Belkin can run in repeater/extender mode and put it somewhere close to the back door where it gets a decent signal from the main router.

Ethernet cable is the best solution, powerline adapters aren't great tbh, most of the time I've used them they've been stable but slow unless the power cable distance between the powerline adapters isn't a lot.

Setting up the Belkin Router as a repeater isn't a bad idea, it will be more annoying to setup but otherwise will be fine.

I'm currently using the TP Link Deco M5s (they have other models in the Deco range though I haven't tried them) and have found them great and despite the position of one of the satelittes only getting about 30mbps on my phone the mesh thing manages to pull 350+mbps. Main thing I like about them is that its easy to manage and just works, there are other ways which are probably cheaper but they are more annoying to manage and deal with.

Worth remembering (not just a TP Link thing) that many are only dual band so will share part of it with the backhaul to the main node, though you can use the ethernet port on the back of the satellite unit. Some of them also have wired backhaul which lets you connect the nodes using ethernet cables.

 

[Ediswan]

Ethernet cable is the best solution, powerline adapters aren't great tbh, most of the time I've used them they've been stable but slow unless the power cable distance between the powerline adapters isn't a lot.

I am going to speak up in favour of the current generation of powerline adapters. When WFH suddenly became common, I 'prescribed' them as a wired solutions for several colleagues who couldn't get their domestic wifi to work well. 100% success, all self-installed, even by those who "don't do computers".

Some recipients were more than familiar with 230V power distribution. They were able to confirm that the system works fine across different circuits in the same property (single phase, not usually a concern in the UK).

 

[najaB]

Ethernet cable is the best solution, powerline adapters aren't great tbh, most of the time I've used them they've been stable but slow unless the power cable distance between the powerline adapters isn't a lot.

YMMV. I've seen power line adaptors working as well as Ethernet over long distances, and be crappy and unreliable between adjacent rooms. I've seen both at the same time in the same building.

 

[Energy]

YMMV. I've seen power line adaptors working as well as Ethernet over long distances, and be crappy and unreliable between adjacent rooms. I've seen both at the same time in the same building.

To be fair i have seen powerline adapters work well but I've also seen them be slow and/or unreliable. One case they got affected by a heated drying rack plugged in on the same circuit.

 

[najaB]

One case they got affected by a heated drying rack plugged in on the same circuit.

That is highly unusual. Resistive loads like drying racks should put out little or no electrical interference, at least not at the frequencies used by powerline networking.

 

[Energy]

That is highly unusual. Resistive loads like drying racks should put out little or no electrical interference, at least not at the frequencies used by powerline networking.

It was, my friend found that he would get lag spikes but only when that was on.