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Metric / Imperial

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py_megapixel

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I personally have a far better conception of a metre than a foot, or of a kilogram than a pound. That's hardly surprising in my opinion, given I'm probably younger than most on this forum.

I also don't think there's any denying that the metric system is an awful lot simpler and probably less prone to error - for those who aren't used to something else. Working in multiples of 10 also means that there aren't confusing values to remember, such as the number of yards to a mile (what is it again?) However I'm aware that many on this forum will have grown up using imperial all their lives, and might find it irritating to switch to metric.

I also wonder if the roads in this country will ever switch to metric, in line with much of the rest of the world - but that would probably, at least at the moment, cause significant confusion.

I'm interested to hear your thoughts on this!
 
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birchesgreen

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I'd love the UK to switch to metric as like you i can conceptualise metric measures, imperial mean very little to me. Unfortunately the UK seems stuck in a half-way house, maybe if we had stayed in the EU it would have been different.

I'm 48 just in case anyone thinks i am a yoof.
 

LSWR Cavalier

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I am a bit older than that and bilingual metric and imperial, I think many others are too

I was surprised to see use of the 12-hour clock am/pm on these fora
I always use 24h format, much easier
 

Gloster

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I am 60, so was brought up with the old measurements, but lived abroad for a while. I find that I tend to use the old measurements for rough work and metric ones for more exact tasks. (“It’s about ten miles”, or, “It’s 16.2 kilometres”.) Metric ones are simpler and as much of the world uses them, I don’t see why we shouldn’t as well.
 

DelW

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I worked in metric (SI units) throughout my engineering career (starting in the 1970s), and found it way simpler for engineering calculations than imperial would have been.

I can generally convert weights and dimensions in my head, but not for more complicated units, where I end up with a mixture - for instance, I only know steel or concrete stresses in Newtons per square millimetre, but my car's tyre pressure in pounds per square inch.
 

SteveM70

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I instinctively use metric units for weight and short distances (eg measuring up for carpets), but imperial units for longer distances. And beer, obviously
 

Ted633

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I'm probably unusual in the fact that I'm in my late 20's, but mostly work in Imperial! Although, that's mostly due to the fact that I'm an aircraft engineer on Boeing aircraft, so don't really have a choice! Though personally, I can picture someone's weight and height better in Imperial rather than metric.

Switching to full metric in this country would be fairly straightforward, with the elephant in the room being motor vehicles, with all of them having speedo's and (especially) odometers in miles.
 

alxndr

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I personally use a mix of metric and Imperial, and tend to switch depending on who I'm talking to. If I'm talking to someone older I'll lean towards using Imperial, someone my age or younger and I'll lean towards metric.

At work I use a mixture of metric and Imperial (and woe betide you if I catch you putting the wrong spanner in the wrong tool kit, or forcing the wrong nut on the wrong thread!). In study I'll use SI (metric) units as they're far easier for calculations.

In other situations:
Distances I'll use Imperial, I have been known to estimate distance in chain and mentally convert it to make sense to non-railway people.
With smaller measurements it's Imperial if it's an estimate, or happens to fit nicely, other wise metric, especially if I'm basing calculations on it.
Weight, very much depends who I'm talking to, unless it's cake, which I can only make in Imperial (8, 8, 8, 4!)
Volume, metric, with the exception of pints.

I can't see the country going wholly metric, or at least not for a good few decades. There's still too many people with strong memories of Imperial units, and while you might not get people working in, say, fractions of an inch so much now, they're still very much part of our culture, as proved by the fact that I'm in my twenties and regularly use them. There's also still a fair amount of kit which is fitted with Imperial nuts and bolts. If there is going to be a majority shift towards metric then I would imagine it being towards the end of my life time, once all the people who grew up using metric Imperial have died off.
 
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Mojo

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Is imperial really a "system," or more a random assortment of units?

As someone who went to first, middle and junior school in the 1990s and started secondary school in the year 2000, I have no concept or understanding of imperial units, as we were simply not taught these at school.

Reluctance to use Metric is usually made up of gibberish, nonsensical arguments.

I was surprised to see use of the 12-hour clock am/pm on these fora
I always use 24h format, much easier
I'm surprised by that too, as our settings are to give times for posts and similar in the 24 hour format (except for recent postings which will display things for example like "4 minutes ago"). Would be interested to know where you've seen this?
 
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big all

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i do measurements fully bilingual, for example I will make a coffee table and the dominant [very accurate]important measurement will be on the rod /plan [accurate drawing ], it can be inches or metric with the equivalent in brackets
so 12"[305mm]x16" [406mm] in brackets are subservient but as a check close to accurate
i can automatically without thinking convert inches to metres [39.4] pints to litres [568ml]
pounds to grams [114/227/454 /907etc].
 
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LSWR Cavalier

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I'm seeing the times on here in 24 hour format. Might it be a setting on your computer?
No sorry, I mean: some people quote times in am/pm format
Forum shows 24h for me too
Many media in the UK use am/pm format, seems quaint/strange

Decades ago BR timetables were printed in 24h format but verbal info at the ticket window was given in am/pm
 

najaB

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I also wonder if the roads in this country will ever switch to metric, in line with much of the rest of the world - but that would probably, at least at the moment, cause significant confusion.
They already are. Those 100 yard countdown markers - 100m apart. Lane widths - measured in m. It's only the signs that are in miles.
Do metric measurements get used much in the U.S.?
All the time. NIST switched to metric years ago. The pound and foot have been specified in kg and mm since the 1970s.
If there is going to be a majority shift towards metric then I would imagine it being towards the end of my life time, once all the people who grew up using metric have died off.
I presume you mean the people who grew up using imperial?
Didn't NASA infamously lose a mega million dollar Mars space probe a few years back due to some imperial / metric calculation foul-up?
Mars Climate Orbiter. The TL;DR version is that the navigation system was specified in metric but was fed a value in imperial so it ended up too deep into the atmosphere and likely burned up.
 
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Do metric measurements get used much in the U.S.?

America uses its own separate system. Signs like 'road closed in 1600 feet'. Even though I was brought up in traditional ( I suppose I shouldn't use the term Imperial nowadays) I struggle to conceptualise large distances in feet rather than yards. They also use a different gallon. 3.8 litres to a gallon rather than our 4.5. Car engines are cubic inches, rather than ccs (itself an outdated unit), beer comes in ounces rather than pints, and cooking ingredients in volume rather than weight. I think there is no chance of the ultra-conservative USA ever changing to metric.

It was interesting that AEC always used metric measurements, so an RT engine was 9.6 liters, but Leyland were Imperial, their equivalent being 600 cubic inches (9.8 litres). Then the two merged and AEC were effectively forced to work to Leyland Imperial measurements. Then Leland went back to Metric and AEC had to revert to metric.

And referring to foul-ups, I seem to remember that the Gimli Glider incident was caused by a fuelling error due to the pilot's confusion between measuring systems.
 

SteveM70

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Mars Climate Orbiter. The TL;DR version is that the navigation system was specified in metric but was fed a value in imperial so it ended up too deep into the atmosphere and likely burned up.

This and many other real life cock ups caused by mathematical or other errors are in Matt Parker’s excellent book Humble Pi. Much recommended if that’s your thing
 

najaB

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This and many other real life cock ups caused by mathematical or other errors are in Matt Parker’s excellent book Humble Pi. Much recommended if that’s your thing
I shall take a look, thanks for the recommendation.
 

RT4038

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No sorry, I mean: some people quote times in am/pm format
Forum shows 24h for me too
Many media in the UK use am/pm format, seems quaint/strange

Decades ago BR timetables were printed in 24h format but verbal info at the ticket window was given in am/pm

Very few people I have come across quote (as in speak) in the 24 hour format. ('I'll meet you at fourteen o'clock', or at 'fourteen hundred hours' sounds quite silly, or a clandestine military operation!). Whereas it is getting less usual to see the 12hr clock in formal print, although certainly usually in use in an informal note. So we all mentally make the change quite easily. Twenty-two hundred news anyone?
 

Ploughman

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In my railway career I have had to work in Imperial and Metric.
Also a combination of the two for example giving a location as 10 mile 40 chain plus 5.555 metres.



Another old measurement that comes up from time to time is the Old English measurement that fits all instances.
The Firkin.
Generally when there there is a short measure or an over supply.
Rarely an exact measure.

Its Too Firkin much.
Its Too Firkin Heavy
etc
:lol::lol:
 

Mcr Warrior

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In my railway career I have had to work in Imperial and Metric.
Also a combination of the two for example giving a location as 10 mile 40 chain plus 5.555 metres.
Bizarre! Why not 10 miles, 40 chains, 6 yards, 2 inches?
 

Mojo

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They already are. Those 100 yard countdown markers - 100m apart. Lane widths - measured in m. It's only the signs that are in miles.
And further to this, the signs are measured in metres, but not to the equivalent of the number of imperial units they purport to represent. For instance a sign warning of roadworks 1 Mile ahead would be placed 1600m from the datum, and a yard is treated as equivalent to a metre.
 

Ploughman

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Bizarre! Why not 10 miles, 40 chains, 6 yards, 2 inches?
Because there was a permanent ground marker at the 10 1/2mp and the object measured was 5.555 m beyond.
And I only had a tape measure in metric.

THe countdown markers.
I was always under the impression that they were not place at 100yd or 100m but rather at 1/3rd, 2/3rd the distance etc
 

Devonian

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Do metric measurements get used much in the U.S.?
The USA even has a metric-signed road: Interstate 19, built between 1963 and 1972. By contrast, the UK had a budget for metricating road signs held in reserve for decades, finally abandoned in the 2010s.
Reluctance to use Metric is usually made up of gibberish, nonsensical arguments.
Sometimes! I am a child of the Thatcher era, and metric was used almost exclusively at school, except for Imperial-metric conversion which was part of the GCSE maths syllabus. Metric was exclusively used in my engineering degree. You might expect me to be Mr Metric. Nevertheless, I am now 'bilingual' and I use more Imperial in my home life than metric. How did that happen, and why? I have a fairly rational explanation...
  • My parents (and many fellow students, to my initial surprise) used Imperial for estimated measurements, such as "You've got about a foot to reverse before you hit the other car" or "the picture needs to hang a couple of inches to the left", so I quickly learned to understand these concepts. By contrast, I got blank looks if I offered metric estimates.
  • Even at my entirely metric school, pupils spoke of a "six inch rule" of minimum distance between students. I never, ever heard that referred to as 15cm.
  • I learned to drive, and as well as facing a mostly Imperial road network found that I could only handle stopping distances by using the Imperial calculation.
  • I learned to cook using second-hand recipe books, which I still use, so it would be actively awkward to have to convert my cooking to use metric than to continue to use Imperial.
  • When I am doing DIY, apart from having to fit things into a house built in Imperial increments, I find that it is actually easier to divide Imperial units: I can divide a foot or a yard into 2, 3, 4, 6 and 12 without bothering with fractions or decimals. 10 has fewer natural factors. Plus many materials (notably 8' x 4' sheet board) are still almost exactly Imperial sizes, so cutting them up into Imperial chunks leads to easier calcs and less waste. And I have shoes that are conveniently a foot long and an arm span of two yards, which makes pacing floors and measuring string/cables easier in Imperial than metric!
  • I shop for clothes using my Imperial body measurements, and I see that even shops for the young and fashionable continue to use "British" clothes sizes. It would often be actively more difficult to use metric, which is frequently shown in tiny lettering. I believe there are other areas where imperial is more frequently used for body measurements too.
I have two definitely irrational Imperial preferences: pounds of honey and pints of milk/beer. Alter those at your peril!
 

najaB

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My parents (and many fellow students, to my initial surprise) used Imperial for estimated measurements, such as "You've got about a foot to reverse before you hit the other car" or "the picture needs to hang a couple of inches to the left", so I quickly learned to understand these concepts. By contrast, I got blank looks if I offered metric estimates.
To be honest, for that kind of thing a "foot" isn't actually a foot - it's a unit of length about one ruler long. In the same way that "half a metre" is rarely actually 50cm.
 

hexagon789

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I have two definitely irrational Imperial preferences: pounds of honey and pints of milk/beer. Alter those at your peril!

I've never known of a preference for pounds for honey, but I agree with pints of beer; less so pints of milk I'd say that's a 40/60 split pints vs litres.
 
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