Metrolink coming to Bolton (?) - Shapps

[Ianno87]

The population east of Bolton town centre (including Breightmet) but west of Bury/Radcliffe is too small to justify a Metrolink extension.

Explain all the cars parked at Radcliffe tram stop every day. There is quite a bit of demand from that area.

It's no less populous that other areas of Greater Manchester.

 

[edwin_m]

Explain all the cars parked at Radcliffe tram stop every day. There is quite a bit of demand from that area.

It's no less populous that other areas of Greater Manchester.

It's probably more populous than areas like Milnrow which are visibly rural but yet have Metrolink service, generally due to historical accident. However that route has through trams to Manchester. if people from Little Lever etc had to change trams at Bury (and effectively backtrack as far as Radcliffe) or onto a train at Bolton to get to the main destination in central Manchester, they might well just continue to get there in the ways they do now. That's essentially the problem with justifying orbital tram routes. London is big enough to sustain some in Croydon (and parts of DLR have a similar function) where the main radial routes need long trains to meet the demand, but the population and ridership in other cities is that much less, as shown by the fact that the radials only run short trains or trams.

 

[javelin]

The Restoring Your Railways study is named "Reinstatement of Bolton-Radcliffe / Bolton – Bury". That tends to suggests looking at both Bolton to Manchester via Radcliffe services, as well as direct Bolton to Bury, possibly as an extension of the Oldham to Heywood/Bury tram train.

People often focus on the end-to-end journeys, but the point of high-frequency all-stops services is joining locations along the line.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

The railways in days of yore used to run services with conjoined locomotive and carriage units on a "pull and push" service to serve areas in between existing railway stations in the same manner as suggestions for Metrolink trams to be treated similar to a limited-stop bus service. An example springing to mind was such a service
between Burnley and Colne, a list of stations below with the intermediate halts shown in emboldened type:-

Burnley Central
New Hall Bridge Halt
Reedley Hallows Halt
Brierfield
Nelson
Bott Lane Halt
Colne

In the days of the Radcliffe to Bolton service, the first stop outwards from Radcliffe was Ainsworth Road Halt. What were the platform heights like there as some coaches had step facilities included.

 

[AlastairFraser]

There is little demand for longer orbital journeys, e.g. Bolton to Rochdale or Bury to Oldham, and there are adequate bus services for the moderate ridership between adjacent towns. Metrolink's primary function is to provide high capacity electrified rail transport to/from the city centre, and as there is already a good fast train service from Bolton town centre to all stations in central Manchester, there is no need for Metrolink to serve Bolton town centre.

The bus services in the area are not adequate as shown by the high levels of motor traffic from Bolton to Bury on the A58 and Bolton to Rochdale/Heywood via the A666/M61/M60/M62/A627(M) route and vice versa; in my view, the bus services are not adequate for their purpose because of the lengthly journey times between the 3 centres (Bolton, Bury and Rochdale).
Much of this motor traffic would be attracted away from the road by a Metrolink service as shown by the heavy use of Park and Ride car parks at Radcliffe and Whitefield.

The primary purpose of Metrolink is of, yes, a radial tram network to provide interurban transport between central Manchester and the other big centres in GM, however, it provides an ancillary local transport function particularly in the Wythenshawe area of Manchester and within the boroughs of Trafford, Bury, Salford, Oldham and Rochdale.
A reopened Bolton to Bury/Rochdale line would also provide direct connections from Little/Darcy Lever to Bury/Radcliffe, a currently badly served flow.
Bolton to Rochdale would also provide for flows from West Yorks (Calder Valley line)/Oldham/the Rossendale Valley/most of East Lancs to Bolton/Bury without going into central GM, which would save a lot of money and time for many commuters and take a decent amount of traffic off the M62/M66/M65.

 

[Purple Orange]

The bus services in the area are not adequate as shown by the high levels of motor traffic from Bolton to Bury on the A58 and Bolton to Rochdale/Heywood via the A666/M61/M60/M62/A627(M) route and vice versa; in my view, the bus services are not adequate for their purpose because of the lengthly journey times between the 3 centres (Bolton, Bury and Rochdale).
Much of this motor traffic would be attracted away from the road by a Metrolink service as shown by the heavy use of Park and Ride car parks at Radcliffe and Whitefield.

The primary purpose of Metrolink is of, yes, a radial tram network to provide interurban transport between central Manchester and the other big centres in GM, however, it provides an ancillary local transport function particularly in the Wythenshawe area of Manchester and within the boroughs of Trafford, Bury, Salford, Oldham and Rochdale.
A reopened Bolton to Bury/Rochdale line would also provide direct connections from Little/Darcy Lever to Bury/Radcliffe, a currently badly served flow.
Bolton to Rochdale would also provide for flows from West Yorks (Calder Valley line)/Oldham/the Rossendale Valley/most of East Lancs to Bolton/Bury without going into central GM, which would save a lot of money and time for many commuters and take a decent amount of traffic off the M62/M66/M65.

You’ll never convince dao that improving frequency and infrastructure in Greater Manchester is a good thing.

 

[daodao]

The bus services in the area are not adequate as shown by the high levels of motor traffic from Bolton to Bury on the A58 and Bolton to Rochdale/Heywood via the A666/M61/M60/M62/A627(M) route and vice versa; in my view, the bus services are not adequate for their purpose because of the lengthy journey times between the 3 centres (Bolton, Bury and Rochdale).
Much of this motor traffic would be attracted away from the road by a Metrolink service as shown by the heavy use of Park and Ride car parks at Radcliffe and Whitefield.

The primary purpose of Metrolink is of, yes, a radial tram network to provide interurban transport between central Manchester and the other big centres in GM, however, it provides an ancillary local transport function particularly in the Wythenshawe area of Manchester and within the boroughs of Trafford, Bury, Salford, Oldham and Rochdale.
A reopened Bolton to Bury/Rochdale line would also provide direct connections from Little/Darcy Lever to Bury/Radcliffe, a currently badly served flow.
Bolton to Rochdale would also provide for flows from West Yorks (Calder Valley line)/Oldham/the Rossendale Valley/most of East Lancs to Bolton/Bury without going into central GM, which would save a lot of money and time for many commuters and take a decent amount of traffic off the M62/M66/M65.

Travel between peripheral areas of large conurbations is typically between suburban homes and facilities (e.g. retail/sporting/medical) not sited in town centres and therefore cannot be provided easily by public transport. The heavy use of Park and Ride car parks at Radcliffe and Whitefield is to facilitate travel to/from Manchester City Centre, where car parking is at a premium. I am not convinced that the infrastructure cost of providing Metrolink services between peripheral centres in Greater Manchester (e.g. to/from Bolton) is justified by the potential use of such services. Incidental connections are useful (e.g. I have used Metrolink to travel to the Airport to avoid car parking issues there), but do not by themselves justify building Metrolink lines such as Bolton to Radcliffe/Bury. Bolton already has a good direct train service to Manchester city centre.

You’ll never convince daodao that improving frequency and infrastructure in Greater Manchester is a good thing.

That is not true. I do support enhancements that are likely to be cost-effective. I have stated on this website that I support electrification of the Bolton to Wigan North Western line, and conversion of the heavy rail line via Walkden (in the borough of Bolton) to Metrolink.