Metrolink M5000 Fleet Status

[Peter Mugridge]

Are they definitely M5000s? Because when the last order was completed we were told that production line had closed down.

Apparently they are, hence the price being £3 million per tram instead of £2 million per tram previously...

I can check that with someone directly but it'll take a few days to get a definitive answer.

 

[edwin_m]

Along with talk of busways for the Airport-Stockport area, ordering more trams suggests that tram-train isn't being taken forward.

 

[snowball]

Along with talk of busways for the Airport-Stockport area, ordering more trams suggests that tram-train isn't being taken forward.

I don't think that's a safe deduction. Nobody on the Greater Manchester transport subforum of Skyscrapercity is making it, and there are a lot of people there who know a lot about Metrolink.

Incidentally it has been alleged there that the choice of the number 27 was mainly driven by the parking capacity of the two depots.

 

[WatcherZero]

Are they definitely M5000s? Because when the last order was completed we were told that production line had closed down.

The Manchester specific one had but they are still in production for German cities till at least 2021, they cant have discarded the tooling as Bombardier have said they would reopen the line with the original contract price if the order was placed before June. They are getting a 3% bulk buy discount on their previous unit price for ordering 27 over 15 for simply Trafford and Airport Extension. Also dont simply divide the budget by the number to get the cost, theres some investment in extra depot capacity, substations and Park and Ride at 3 stops too as well as full sets of spare parts with the total budget being £100m, £83m from the congestion fund and £17m of borrowing against the revenues they will earn.

 

[Dentonian]

Along with talk of busways for the Airport-Stockport area, ordering more trams suggests that tram-train isn't being taken forward.

Not heard about this, unless you mean Airport and Stockport as two seperate areas. Then again, the word "bus" did not appear in any of the news stories about the £243 million package, other than to effectively suggest bus lanes were being shall we say, diluted.

 

[WatcherZero]

There was a mention of a trial of a multi-occupancy lane to start within the next year but it the actual congestion report suggested expansion of bus lanes and traffic light priority across the region.

This is the paragraph on HOV

We will review the viability of introducing a High Occupancy Vehicle (HOV) Lane pilot on one of our busiest corridors. There are limited examples of this approach nationally and therefore this must be carefully considered to ensure that a genuine and affordable option to support more car sharing can be delivered; and without detriment to bus frequencies or journey times for public transport users, or adverse effect on the safety of cyclists and other road users along these routes

And on buses

Major change will take time, but there are steps we can take now to make bus travel a more attractive and realistic option for people. The Vantage bus service between Leigh, Salford and Manchester is a great example of how frequent, reliable, high quality services - supported by bus lanes and segregated bus priority measures - can encourage drivers to leave their car at home. In a 2016 survey, 20% of Vantage
service passengers said they had stopped using their car for the same journey. We will continue to identify locations where bus priority can be improved and work with operators to drive up standards and increase capacity.

The bulk of the report was on tackling junction pinch points, incentivising change in behaviour, providing the information to allow smart choices, providing greater central control of the daily traffic management, and tackling road works through charging a daily fee for road closures to utilities/construction.

 

[507 001]

I am told that 27 additional M5000s have been ordered earlier this week...

They’ve not actually been ordered yet. This was merely a statement of intent.

Are they definitely M5000s? Because when the last order was completed we were told that production line had closed down.

Apparently they are. Rumours are currently circling around Work that they’ll be double length sets for Bury and Altrincham line services, but this keeps getting denied by management.

 

[Grimsby town]

They’ve not actually been ordered yet. This was merely a statement of intent.



Apparently they are. Rumours are currently circling around Work that they’ll be double length sets for Bury and Altrincham line services, but this keeps getting denied by management.

It would make sesnse to me for the trams to be four carriage. They basically run as permanent four car sets anyway. I imagine its techincally possible i suppose it depends on the depot length.
A full four car length unit would provide a small amount of additional capacity and allow loads to spread more easily as usually one tram is uncomfortably full with the other having some space left.

 

[edwin_m]

I think the problem here is that the existing design only has motors on the non-articulated bogies at the ends, so a longer set would either need them to design an articulated motor bogie or end up being under-powered.

 

[Domh245]

I think the problem here is that the existing design only has motors on the non-articulated bogies at the ends, so a longer set would either need them to design an articulated motor bogie or end up being under-powered.

Or build them to the existing design, but cut the inner cab end off each half unit and replace it with a through gangway, giving you an identical axle arrangement (and similar axle load) to the existing M5000s, and would mean that gauging should be much the same, whereas doing an articulated centre bogie would start changing that.

 

[edwin_m]

I think a gangway without articulation would be unworkable due to the lateral movement on reverse curves. Watching the cab ends of a double as it goes through some parts of the city centre, the offset looks to be at least a metre.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Apparently they are. Rumours are currently circling around Work that they’ll be double length sets for Bury and Altrincham line services, but this keeps getting denied by management.

That would make sense of the price increase then wouldn't it?

So, if they're all double length ones then this would in fact be the equivalent of 54 more of the present fleet?

 

[Altfish]

That would make sense of the price increase then wouldn't it?

So, if they're all double length ones then this would in fact be the equivalent of 54 more of the present fleet?

At the moment all the Bury - Altrincham services are double trams.
The Bury - Piccadilly and the Altrincham - Piccadilly are about 30% doubles, the rest singles, so the strengthening will mean all the Piccadilly services are doubled.

 

[edwin_m]

That would make sense of the price increase then wouldn't it?

So, if they're all double length ones then this would in fact be the equivalent of 54 more of the present fleet?

A 50% increase from the last order was reported further back. I think the fall in the pound plus inflation in the meantime would explain most of this.

 

[WatcherZero]

Also it includes infrastructure, depot expansion and substation capacity increases as well as three park and ride carparks.

 

[rebmcr]

At the moment all the Bury - Altrincham services are double trams.
The Bury - Piccadilly and the Altrincham - Piccadilly are about 30% doubles, the rest singles, so the strengthening will mean all the Piccadilly services are doubled.

Not necessarily. There are power supply limitations to take into account.

 

[507 001]

I think the problem here is that the existing design only has motors on the non-articulated bogies at the ends, so a longer set would either need them to design an articulated motor bogie or end up being under-powered.

The trailer bogie is capable of taking motors. They were just never fitted. You’d need to move the disk brakes around a bit too.

Or build them to the existing design, but cut the inner cab end off each half unit and replace it with a through gangway, giving you an identical axle arrangement (and similar axle load) to the existing M5000s, and would mean that gauging should be much the same, whereas doing an articulated centre bogie would start changing that.

Not possible. Gangways wouldn’t work on the tight bends/rapid gradient changes on street running sections.

That would make sense of the price increase then wouldn't it?

So, if they're all double length ones then this would in fact be the equivalent of 54 more of the present fleet?

Inflation could also account for the price change. Don’t forget we’re ten years down the line since the first batch of M5000s was ordered.

Not necessarily. There are power supply limitations to take into account.

All Alt-Pic and Bury-Pic services will be doubles. The power supplies should cope now that the new Substations at Whitefield and Brooklands are up and running. The existing subs will be upgraded too from what I’ve heard.

 

[MetroCar4058]

I don't often venture away from the T&W Metro area, but I was wondering how the MetroLink service is enhanced for the Parklife weekend and how successful this tends to be? (excluding last year!). I assume it will be quite similar loadings to when we have the Great North Run and there will be crowd control at stations such as Pic Gardens? Also how successful are the crowd control procedures as I imagine heavy loading at some of the stations in more confined areas such as Market Street might make it difficult?
Thanks in advance

 

[Altfish]

I don't often venture away from the T&W Metro area, but I was wondering how the MetroLink service is enhanced for the Parklife weekend and how successful this tends to be? (excluding last year!). I assume it will be quite similar loadings to when we have the Great North Run and there will be crowd control at stations such as Pic Gardens? Also how successful are the crowd control procedures as I imagine heavy loading at some of the stations in more confined areas such as Market Street might make it difficult?
Thanks in advance

Hmm
They certainly make sure that all the trams on the Bury line are doubles. BUT they can't put on extra trams because the City Centre won't stand for it - not enough paths. They already run late (0100 ish) Friday and Saturday and until about Midnight on Sundays.
Crowd control is only likely to be at Heaton Park.
I doubt it'll be any different (not as bad) than a City or United game or Ed Sheeran this weekend at the Ethiad because many travel from afar to Parklife and drive or get a coach.

 

[snowball]

Order for 27 new trams confirmed:

https://www.manchestereveningnews.c...-news/transport-bosses-sign-72m-deal-14855875

 

[Domh245]

Interesting to see that the contract is with Bombardier Transport UK, was this the case with the earlier fleets, or were they just with regular old Bombardier Transportation. If not, is there a chance that these extra 27 will be assembled in Derby or am I reading too much into it?

 

[LOL The Irony]

Interesting to see that the contract is with Bombardier Transport UK, was this the case with the earlier fleets, or were they just with regular old Bombardier Transportation. If not, is there a chance that these extra 27 will be assembled in Derby or am I reading too much into it?

But the rush-hour crush won’t be ending any time soon - the trams aren’t expected until 2020.

Judging by the arrival date vs Aventras being built, they won't be built in Derby.

 

[Altfish]

Judging by the arrival date vs Aventras being built, they won't be built in Derby.

I hope they've got a fixed price because after Brexit it could be plus tariffs...

 

[507 001]

3012 has returned to service this week after spending around a year as the Trafford Depot Christmas tree.

 

[Trainfan344]

3012 has returned to service this week after spending around a year as the Trafford Depot Christmas tree.

Just in time for christmas