Metrolink oops 2017-11-10

[rebmcr]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-41940685

Major disruption after two Metrolink trams crash in Manchester
Greater Manchester's tram network was suspended after two trams crashed in the morning rush-hour.

There were no injuries in the low-speed crash which happened at 08:30 GMT in St Peter's Square, Manchester city centre.

Some services including Eccles to Cornbrook and East Didsbury to Rochdale have resumed after the "knock-on" effects halted the network.

The incident has been referred to the Rail Accident Investigation Board.

Metrolink has apologised and customers are advised to use tram tickets on replacement buses.

 

[pemma]

I wonder if RAIB will decide 'line of sight' how it's been implemented is unsafe?

 

[rebmcr]

Actually, looking at the MEN images, it appears to be an exceptionally wet day in Manchester, with standing water on most of the paving. Perhaps poor rail adhesion was a factor.

 

[nidave]

I wonder if RAIB will decide 'line of sight' how it's been implemented is unsafe?

What suggestions would you make for trams that you would not apply to busses, lorries and other line of sight traffic? How many bus crashes have we had recently compared to trams.

 

[pemma]

What suggestions would you make for trams that you would not apply to busses, lorries and other line of sight traffic? How many bus crashes have we had recently compared to trams.

Buses don't run on rails and can brake more rapidly than trams.

Metrolink have 120 trams with many being used doubled up. Stagecoach Manchester alone have 950 buses - is it any surprise bus crashes are more common?

 

[nidave]

Are you sure that is true? I thought trams had an incredibly efficient stopping distance
Plus the number of busses does not make my point less valid - one slight bump and we are talking about changing the rules before we know what happened. Lots of bus crashes and its "oh its just another one"

 

[Mathew S]

Are you sure that is true? I thought trams had an incredibly efficient stopping distance
Plus the number of busses does not make my point less valid - one slight bump and we are talking about changing the rules before we know what happened. Lots of bus crashes and its "oh its just another one"

Can't give you an exact number, but the Manchester trams can stop on a sixpence. Especially at the very, very slow speeds they're going where the collision happened.

I walked past at 10am and 11am this morning, as engineers were in attendance trying to sort things out.

Appeared to be one tram that had failed to come to a halt quickly enough when stopping behind another tram on the same platform (the inbound towards Piccadilly Gardens). Speed can't have been more than 2/3 mph if that, and there appeared to be no damage when I saw them being driven apart at about 11am, save for a slightly dented 'bumper'.

 

[pemma]

Plus the number of busses does not make my point less valid - one slight bump and we are talking about changing the rules before we know what happened. Lots of bus crashes and its "oh its just another one"

I posed a question which I imagine the RAIB will look at. It wasn't that long ago when one tram right behind another one at a city centre stop wouldn't be allowed, now it is allowed and an accident happened which couldn't have happened under the old system.

Using your bus analogy there was once an accident when an Optare Solo got grounded on a new speed hump on approach to a bus station. That led to any services being operated by Optare Solo buses being re-routed to go in another way until the speed hump was modified. Bus incidents don't just get ignored as you seem to think.

 

[edwin_m]

I wonder if RAIB will decide 'line of sight' how it's been implemented is unsafe?

Basically a fender-bender with no reported casualties. There have been a handful of tram-to-tram crashes on modern UK tram networks, some more serious than this, but nobody has seriously suggested abandoning the principle. What happened in Croydon is an entirely separate issue.

 

[work-traveller]

Basically a fender-bender with no reported casualties. There have been a handful of tram-to-tram crashes on modern UK tram networks, some more serious than this, but nobody has seriously suggested abandoning the principle. What happened in Croydon is an entirely separate issue.

Quite right. Of the 100,000s of car accidents each year, most people don't have their licenses removed or endorsed - nor do we suggest that the way vehicles operate is fundamentally wrong.

 

[pemma]

Quite right. Of the 100,000s of car accidents each year, most people don't have their licenses removed or endorsed - nor do we suggest that the way vehicles operate is fundamentally wrong.

Yet just one accident can result in double yellow lines being put down or a parking bay being shortened.

 

[Mathew S]

Yet just one accident can result in double yellow lines being put down or a parking bay being shortened.

Which, where it's shown to be the cause, would be proportionate. For altering the entire method of operation of a city-wide metro system to be a proportionate response I do think there would have to be a far more serious incident than that which occurred.

 

[pemma]

Which, where it's shown to be the cause, would be proportionate. For altering the entire method of operation of a city-wide metro system to be a proportionate response I do think there would have to be a far more serious incident than that which occurred.

Metrolink suspended the entire network following the accident which suggested they wanted to do an internal investigation to ensure it wasn't caused by a problem which could directly result in a more serious accident.

 

[Mathew S]

Metrolink suspended the entire network following the accident which suggested they wanted to do an internal investigation to ensure it wasn't caused by a problem which could directly result in a more serious accident.

Which, until they know what happened, is probably prudent. On which subject, we don't know what caused the collision yet, so speculation like this is all rather pointless. Perhaps we should all just wait for RAIB and KAM to make their reports.

 

[LOL The Irony]

I think I know how it happened. I went to Manchester by tram today. When we stopped at St Peter's, it rolled back approx half a foot before the parkbrake kicked in and jolted us. Under low-adhision conditions and with another tram close behind, it's quite easy for an incident like this to happen.

 

[satisnek]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-41940685

Can one tram nudging another at 2mph really be called a 'crash'?

 

[Mathew S]

Can one tram nudging another at 2mph really be called a 'crash'?

Lots of people, the Met themselves included, called it a 'kiss'. Quite like that myself.

 

[LOL The Irony]

Can one tram nudging another at 2mph really be called a 'crash'?

It's what the yanks would call a fender bender.

Lots of people, the Met themselves included, called it a 'kiss'. Quite like that myself.

Although it did result in some minor damage to at least one of the trams.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Lots of people, the Met themselves included, called it a 'kiss'. Quite like that myself.

A non-consented kiss, which apparently is a hot button issue at the moment...

 

[507 001]

Are you sure that is true? I thought trams had an incredibly efficient stopping distance
Plus the number of busses does not make my point less valid - one slight bump and we are talking about changing the rules before we know what happened. Lots of bus crashes and its "oh its just another one"

They absolutely do not stop like busses, believe me.

Can't give you an exact number, but the Manchester trams can stop on a sixpence. Especially at the very, very slow speeds they're going where the collision happened.

I walked past at 10am and 11am this morning, as engineers were in attendance trying to sort things out.

Appeared to be one tram that had failed to come to a halt quickly enough when stopping behind another tram on the same platform (the inbound towards Piccadilly Gardens). Speed can't have been more than 2/3 mph if that, and there appeared to be no damage when I saw them being driven apart at about 11am, save for a slightly dented 'bumper'.

They can stop quickly, but not in conditions like there were that morning.

I think I know how it happened. I went to Manchester by tram today. When we stopped at St Peter's, it rolled back approx half a foot before the parkbrake kicked in and jolted us. Under low-adhision conditions and with another tram close behind, it's quite easy for an incident like this to happen.

Not even close....

 

[Altfish]

Looks like there's been another slow speed collision in St Peter's Square today

 

[Altfish]

MEN report...

http://www.manchestereveningnews.co...r-news/tram-collision-st-peters-live-14073094

Metrolink diversions are in place at St Peter's Square following a crash between two trams .

Services travelling from Rochdale to East Didsbury and from Shaw & Crompton to East Didsbury are currently operating via Shudehill and Market Street.

Services from East Didsbury towards Rochdale are unaffected.

The crash, which happened at 1.30pm, was described as 'very minor' due to the low speed of the vehicles, a TfGM spokesman said.

 

[rebmcr]

Hopefully someone with a sense of humour can arrange for some mistletoe.

 

[iknowyeah]

Ah this is what happened! I was waiting at Withington and saw the 20+ minute delay, so hopped on the only one due to east didsbury and got the train