Metrolink pay as you go

Discussion in 'Other Public Transport' started by radamfi, 11 Jun 2019.

  1. radamfi

    radamfi Established Member

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    On a visit to Manchester, I saw adverts on tram stops saying that pay as you go is coming, but no start date is given

    https://tfgm.com/public-transport/tram/contactless

    Interestingly, they say

    "If you forget to touch-in before your journey, you could be charged the contactless standard fare of £30"

    How can they prove that you haven't touched in during an inspection? TfL can't tell so the worst they can do is charge you a maximum fare.
     
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  3. Bletchleyite

    Bletchleyite Veteran Member

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    It reads to me that £30 will be debited if you touch in but not out, out but not in or touch during an inspection without a touch in.
     
  4. lammy

    lammy Member

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    No, I don't think it quite says that. Here's how I read it, mostly from the page but with a bit of 'between the lines':

    • If you touch in but not out, you'll be charged the maximum fare of £4.60.
    • If you've not touched in, and don't get inspected, then when you touch out it will be recorded as a touch-in and you'll be charged the maximum fare of £4.60, unless you notice what has happened and touch-out somewhere that would give a cheaper fare (whether you'll be able to do that at the station you alighted at and effectively cancel the journey remains to be seen).
    • If you don't touch in and get inspected, that's when you get charged £30. I assume that would happen at the end of the day when things are reconciled, because the inspector probably won't immediately know whether you'd touched in or not (although with the network being largely above-ground, they probably technically could have this information relayed via a mobile connection)
     
  5. radamfi

    radamfi Established Member

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    Does this mean that Metrolink aren't going to bother with pay as you go using smartcards that you top up beforehand and only implement using contactless bank cards?
     
  6. BOULDER

    BOULDER Member

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    I think the new contactless with bank cards is aimed at the occasional user as the current Igo, Get Me There smartcards will still be available and provide better value with 7 day, 28 day and annual passes that can be loaded onto them.
     
  7. Bletchleyite

    Bletchleyite Veteran Member

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    I wouldn't blame them if they did. Anybody can get a contactless bank card now, if only a pre-paid type one.
     
  8. WatcherZero

    WatcherZero Established Member

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    With payment cards when you first touch in your logged on the system as an active journey associated with that bank account number and a pending transaction token is placed on the bank account (reserving funds), at the end of the day the journeys are tallied to determine the appropriate fare and the pending financial transaction on the card finalised. As long as the inspectors readers are net enabled (and there is universal Wi-Fi on the system) then they can check if that bank card has been previously swiped that day.
     
  9. Bletchleyite

    Bletchleyite Veteran Member

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    True. The reason they can't on LU is due to the lack of network connection underground.
     
  10. radamfi

    radamfi Established Member

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    I don't see how that is different to the TfL system. If your contactless bank card gets checked by an inspector on a National Rail train or a tram, within about 5-10 minutes the inspection can be seen in your online account. Even if it wasn't so quick, and it relied on overnight processing, then there is still scope for TfL to charge you a penalty. But they only charge you for an incomplete journey, so no worse than if you forgot to touch in and only touch out. Within zones 1 to 9 that is £10.50 at most. If Metrolink did the same they would only be charging £4.60, not £30.

    Although fare dodgers need only present a contactless card if they want to pay the £30 charge rather than the £100 (reduced to £50 within 14 days) standard fare.
     
    Last edited: 12 Jun 2019
  11. Bletchleyite

    Bletchleyite Veteran Member

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    That's true of TfL as well to some extent - OK, you might meet on-board inspectors but that on the Tube is very rare, but if somehow you get in without touching in (there are several places you can do that if you know about it, it's worth knowing them so you can get out if you lose your card/ticket) all you need to do is touch out and you'll just be charged an unresolved journey, much lower than an £80 PF.

    Much more likely to get a PF on a bus.
     
  12. radamfi

    radamfi Established Member

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    Signage has started to be changed to reflect the coming availability of pay as you go, but still no date for introduction.
     
  13. lonogrol

    lonogrol Member

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    What’s the point? If you approach any barrier line without a ticket and ask staff to be let out then you will be let out. In the worst case they will accompany you to a ticket machine to pay the Oyster/ C.P.C fare in cash or by card. There’s also so many people doubling out or forcing open the wide barrier on the tube and the staff are instructed to not engage, except revenue/ B.T.P.
    It is only authorised revenue staff who can issue penaltyfares.

    If you are seen taking a detour via an un barriered exit then that is probably more of a case to risk being prosecuted (remember under TfL railway bylaws you can be prosecuted for being in compulsory ticket area without a ticket- on NR the only punishment is penaltyfare.)

    Back ontopic- it’s interesting how Metrolink have chose to implement some form of proper punitive action against those who fail their inspections versus TfL. I’m guessing TfL sought legal advice that charging their normal £40/£80 penalty could probably make them liable to chargebacks by banks so presumably why they settled on the maximum fare.
     
  14. radamfi

    radamfi Established Member

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    There is a video explaining how to use contactless pay-as-you-go

     
  15. Accura

    Accura Member

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    TfGM now saying on their website that this will go live on Monday.
     
  16. Trackman

    Trackman Member

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    I've not used the Metrolink for a while, so those card readers on the platforms are for smart cards and now they will take contactless from Monday, am I correct?
     
  17. martin2345uk

    martin2345uk Established Member

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    Yup!!
     
  18. ian1944

    ian1944 Member

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    So if I touch in and out for each journey, then no matter how many I make off-peak one day in zones 1, 2 and 3 there will be a cap at the day ticket price of £4.20?
     
  19. martin2345uk

    martin2345uk Established Member

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    Correct.
     
  20. radamfi

    radamfi Established Member

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    There appears to be no online account facility, so you can't get a receipt or fix incomplete journeys without contacting customer services.
     

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