Metrolink - unhappy with response

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ValleyLines142

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I had an issue purchasing a ticket on the Get Me There app for the Metrolink in Manchester. I've had a reply but I'm really not happy with the reply I've had.

I am 100% taking this matter further. Is there a higher authority I can get in touch with?

Thanks.
 
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ValleyLines142

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My guess is that your next step will be either Transport for Greater Manchester or Transport Focus.

Thank you for this. I looked on the Transport Focus link and they advise to write to the company one more time, then if I'm still not happy with the response then I should take it up with them. However it does say that tram complaints can't be dealt with Transport Focus so I will probably have to write to TfGM, who will probably have more of an understanding of my situation being as it is in their area.
 

martin2345uk

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Am I allowed to ask what the issue was? I use the Get Me There app as my standard way to buy tickets now - would be good to know if there's some flaw I'm not aware of..

(not that I have had my ticket checked since the App was released!)
 

185

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Assume you've seen them but FYI - all terms and conditions.

http://getmethere.co.uk/terms.php

Sections 6 & 7 seem to be the most relevant sections for most issues. I've bolded what I think are the most prominent bits.

TFGM said:
6. Purchasing Mobile Tickets
6.1. Mobile Tickets must be purchased and be active on the get me there app in advance of travel. Purchasing Mobile Tickets requires either a WiFi or cellular data connection in order to complete payment and download of the Mobile Ticket(s) to your smart phone. A stable and regular data connection is required in order that the get me there app content, and ticket security, is kept up to date.
6.2. When purchasing a Mobile Ticket, it is your responsibility to ensure that your Mobile Ticket details are correct at the time of purchase.
6.3. We accept VISA and Mastercard debit and credit cards as methods of payment for Mobile Tickets, via the get me there app. Such methods of payment are also accepted via Apple Pay (and such other mobile payment and digital wallet services as we may specify from time to time).
7. Using Mobile Tickets
7.1. Please note that use of a Mobile Ticket is subject to:
7.1.1. the Metrolink conditions of carriage
, as updated or amended from time to time ("Conditions of Carriage"). The Metrolink Conditions of Carriage are available at http://www.metrolink.co.uk/using-the-network/Pages/conditions-of-carriage.aspx (please review the Metrolink Conditions of Carriage before using services offered by TfGM, in its capacity as the ultimate Operator of Metrolink);
7.1.2. the Greater Manchester Metrolink System Bye-Laws; and
7.1.3. the general conditions of use as set out in these Terms.
7.2. Mobile Tickets are non-transferable, and passengers may be asked for personal identification to prove their entitlement to travel. Additional identification may be required as proof of eligibility of student, young person or child tickets, as advised at the time of purchase.
7.3. Purchased Mobile Tickets are non-refundable and cannot be altered.
7.4. You must ensure that you can present your Mobile Ticket on the screen of your smart phone, as required by any representative of TfGM or Metrolink at any time (including when embarking and disembarking a vehicle). Failure to display your Mobile Ticket will result in you being subject to the standard fare procedures as set out in the Conditions of Carriage.
7.5. Subject to clause 7.7 below Mobile Tickets are locked to the smart phone to which they are downloaded and cannot be copied, sent or moved to another device. TfGM reserves the right to terminate without refund any get me there app user account which we suspect is being misused.
7.6. The safekeeping of your Mobile Tickets is your responsibility. Mobile Tickets that have been purchased or activated accidentally, or which have been downloaded to smart phones that have subsequently been lost or stolen, are non-refundable. If you are not able to present your Mobile Ticket due your smart phone having been lost, stolen or damaged, we are unable to provide a duplicate or replacement Mobile Ticket, and you will need to purchase a new Mobile Ticket or printed ticket before travelling.
7.7. If you have purchased a Mobile Ticket that will be valid for 28 days, such Mobile Ticket can be transferred by us to another Smart phone (including in circumstances where your Smart phone has been lost, stolen or damaged), provided that your 28 day Mobile Ticket has a remaining period of validity of 7 days or more at the time that you request such transfer. In those circumstances, if you wish to transfer your 28 day ticket to another Smart phone, you must contact get me there customer services by calling 03000 035 035 (Monday to Friday 7.00am–8.00pm, Saturday and Sunday 8.00am–8.00pm). When doing so, please ensure that you are able to provide details of your Smart phone and your get me there app user account.
7.8. The get me there app can only be used by one customer, per smart phone at any one time. Individual customers must be able to present their ticket on their own smart phone.
7.9. Possession of a Mobile Ticket does not entitle you to travel in priority to any other passenger holding a valid authority to travel.
7.10. In case of any difficulty, passengers must make sure that they have an alternative valid ticket for their journey. Full details of any problems should be reported to TfGM by emailing [email protected] or by calling get me there Customer Services on 03000 035 035. (Monday to Friday 7.00am–8.00pm, Saturday and Sunday 8.00am–8.00pm).

TfGM own and manage the Get Me There App.
 

ValleyLines142

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Am I allowed to ask what the issue was? I use the Get Me There app as my standard way to buy tickets now - would be good to know if there's some flaw I'm not aware of..

(not that I have had my ticket checked since the App was released!)

Basically I purchased a day ticket on the app on a Sunday with the intention of using it for when I was in Manchester a few days later. In fairness, I didn't realise that once the ticket was purchased it would immediately be activated. I've used a similar app for Cardiff Bus and First Bristol and it hasn't done that. When I bought it, it was sat in my basket and it said I had to push activate first, so I don't know what it was on about. When I closed the app it said it had activated, even though I had to allegedly push the grey button. I wrote to them and said it was an error but they basically said I was a retard for not checking (okay they didn't use those actual words but that's how it was worded!). It's a very misleading app to be honest!
 

Llanigraham

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Basically I purchased a day ticket on the app on a Sunday with the intention of using it for when I was in Manchester a few days later. In fairness, I didn't realise that once the ticket was purchased it would immediately be activated. I've used a similar app for Cardiff Bus and First Bristol and it hasn't done that. When I bought it, it was sat in my basket and it said I had to push activate first, so I don't know what it was on about. When I closed the app it said it had activated, even though I had to allegedly push the grey button. I wrote to them and said it was an error but they basically said I was a retard for not checking (okay they didn't use those actual words but that's how it was worded!). It's a very misleading app to be honest!

I suspect that all this is mentioned in the Terms & Conditions that you ticked as having read? And like most of us they aren't actually read in detail, we just tick the box.

Sorry, but "caveat emptor".
 

ValleyLines142

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I suspect that all this is mentioned in the Terms & Conditions that you ticked as having read? And like most of us they aren't actually read in detail, we just tick the box.

Sorry, but "caveat emptor".

Not even going to bother translating that. This is an ENGLISH forum.

At the end of the day, it is an error because the box was still grey. If I hadn't have closed the app, it still wouldn't have been activated.

Put it this way, I've paid for a service I have not received.
 

Tetchytyke

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Put it this way, I've paid for a service I have not received.

Tickets are automatically activated on the app: http://getmethere.co.uk/metrolink.php

Any tickets or travelcards you purchase on the get me there app are activated automatically according to the day and time of purchase.

If you buy a single, peak return, 7-day or 28-day stop to stop ticket, or a 1-day peak travelcard, it will start automatically at the time you purchase it.

If you buy an off-peak return or a 1-day off peak travelcard it will start automatically at 9.30am on the day of purchase, or immediately if you purchase it after 9.30am.

A weekend travelcard is valid from 6pm on a Friday until the end of service* on Sunday. If you buy a weekend travelcard during the week and before 6pm on Friday, it will start automatically at 6pm on the Friday. If you buy one on a Saturday or Sunday it will start immediately. Please note that if you only plan on travelling on one day over the weekend, you'll get better value from a 1-day off peak travelcard.

All Metrolink tickets and travelcards are valid until the end of service* on the last day of their validity. On certain services, this may be after midnight, so please note that if, for instance, you buy a 1-day travelcard after midnight, it will expire at the end of service*.

I feel sorry for you- every other app I've used requires the user to specifically activate a ticket- but "caveat emptor" (buyer beware). They obviously have no way of knowing whether you used the ticket or not, so really you're going to have to chalk it down to experience.
 
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Llanigraham

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Not even going to bother translating that. This is an ENGLISH forum.

At the end of the day, it is an error because the box was still grey. If I hadn't have closed the app, it still wouldn't have been activated.

Put it this way, I've paid for a service I have not received.

Yes, this is a BRITISH forum, and the term I have used is part of BRITISH legalese, it means "let the buyer beware". The term has been used many times previously on here.

As has been shown by Arctic Troll it is stated in the Terms & Conditions and you have agreed to those T & C's, therefore the Company are not to blame that you were unable to use the App.

Perhaps this shows that we should all read the FULL T & C's and not just blindly believe that all will be well.
 

najaB

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I don't think you have much of a case here. The T&C's say that it will activate on the first day of validity, and that's what it did.

If you want to complain about the tone of their reply to you, that would be a separate issue.
 

Agent_c

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Not even going to bother translating that. This is an ENGLISH forum.

At the end of the day, it is an error because the box was still grey. If I hadn't have closed the app, it still wouldn't have been activated.

Put it this way, I've paid for a service I have not received.

Although it is Latin at its core, it's a commonly used phrase in English. Seems a weird thing to winge about.

Your app issue seems more legit.
 

185

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It is TfGM (the PTE) not Metrolink (the operator) who operate Get Me There.

It may be worth contacting them by email or phone to see if they will consider offering a refund for your error.

I would suggest apologising and offering proof that you were in Wales (or wherever) on the activated day if possible, and certainly, your train ticket showing your arrival in Manchester on the day you intended to travel, they are pretty good.

No guarantee they will return your money, as the assumption you made seems based on the way in which another TOCs app ticketing system works, whilst it is made clear in the (11 billion, small print) conditions that activation is automatic 'on the day'.
 
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TBirdFrank

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The buyer did NOT activate the purchase by pressing any proceed button of any colour.

The App apparently did that all on its own when he closed the phone believing he had confirmed the product he wanted to buy - but not proceeded to finalise the transaction.

This would make an interesting case under the Consumer Rights Act 2015 which makes it abundantly clear that a vendor has to treat a purchaser failry and reasonably - and taking his money when he did not intend to transfer it or to actually make a purchase seems damned unreasonable to me.

It is a great shame that the purchaser is not a Greater Manchester resident as he could write to his local councillor rep on the TfGM Board - but perhaps a letter to his MP may not go amiss.

TfGM are well known for being away on their own agenda and the odd slap down may do them a power of good.
 
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najaB

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The buyer did NOT activate the purchase by pressing any proceed button of any colour.
The link quoted by Arctic Troll makes it clear that tickets automatically activate on their first day of validity so I'm not sure what grounds there is for a complaint.
This would make an interesting case under the Consumer Rights Act 2015 which makes it abundantly clear that a vendor has to treat a purchaser failry and reasonably - and taking his money when he did not intend to transfer it or to actually make a purchase seems damned unreasonable to me.
But he did intend to make a purchase, and in every e-ticket scheme I have seen the money is taken at time of purchase, not time of activation if they aren't the same. So in that regards the Get Me There app is no different to any other e-ticket.
 

Tetchytyke

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The buyer did NOT activate the purchase by pressing any proceed button of any colour.

The buyer did not have to. When you click "purchase" the ticket is automatically and immediately activated without any further input from the buyer.

This would make an interesting case under the Consumer Rights Act 2015 which makes it abundantly clear that a vendor has to treat a purchaser failry and reasonably - and taking his money when he did not intend to transfer it or to actually make a purchase seems damned unreasonable to me.

The OP intended to make the purchase, and has explicitly said so. What he intended was to make the purchase then, and then activate the ticket several days later. As the website makes abundantly clear, that is not possible on the Get Me There app, regardless of what other apps in the sector may offer.

As I said, I feel sorry for the OP, as all other apps in the sector require the buyer to activate a ticket. It is an obvious and understandable mistake for the OP to make. But I do not see how it is TfGM's fault and, if they won't offer a gesture of goodwill refund, the OP will simply have to chalk it down to experience.
 

martin2345uk

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If the app did let you activate it when you wanted, what would stop people buying one then only activating it if they see inspectors?

Not suggesting anything, just a genuine question..!
 

Roylang

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If the app did let you activate it when you wanted, what would stop people buying one then only activating it if they see inspectors?

Not suggesting anything, just a genuine question..!

I guess you can make the Ts & Cs say you must activate it on boarding the tram and the app allow the inspector to see when the ticket was activated so the inspector can see if you have only just done it.

Ok, somebody will forget to activate it and claim they saw the inspector and that reminded them, that being caught is that is unfair, but...

Roy
 

Altfish

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I must admit I've downloaded the GetMeThere app to my android but have not had the confidence to use it in anger.

TfGM are making a right pig's ear of this.
 

ValleyLines142

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They obviously have no way of knowing whether you used the ticket or not, so really you're going to have to chalk it down to experience.

I do though. My location services on my phone prove I was in Cardiff, and I have screenshots to prove it.

The buyer did not have to. When you click "purchase" the ticket is automatically and immediately activated without any further input from the buyer.

Except it didn't. You're failing to grasp this very point.

Regardless of what the T&C's say, had I not closed the app the ticket still would not have been validated to this very day. Furthermore it's ridiculous anyway. There should just be an option to buy it and save it for a future day.

Arctic Troll said:
The OP intended to make the purchase, and has explicitly said so. What he intended was to make the purchase then, and then activate the ticket several days later. As the website makes abundantly clear, that is not possible on the Get Me There app, regardless of what other apps in the sector may offer.

As I said, I feel sorry for the OP, as all other apps in the sector require the buyer to activate a ticket. It is an obvious and understandable mistake for the OP to make. But I do not see how it is TfGM's fault and, if they won't offer a gesture of goodwill refund, the OP will simply have to chalk it down to experience.

I wouldn't exactly call it 'abundantly' clear; in fact, I'd say it was far from it....

If you want to complain about the tone of their reply to you, that would be a separate issue.

It wasn't their tone, it was just them saying it was my own fault. Which it partly is, but not of all it is.

Although it is Latin at its core, it's a commonly used phrase in English. Seems a weird thing to winge about.

It's not necessary on here.

It is TfGM (the PTE) not Metrolink (the operator) who operate Get Me There.

It may be worth contacting them by email or phone to see if they will consider offering a refund for your error.

I would suggest apologising and offering proof that you were in Wales (or wherever) on the activated day if possible, and certainly, your train ticket showing your arrival in Manchester on the day you intended to travel, they are pretty good.

No guarantee they will return your money, as the assumption you made seems based on the way in which another TOCs app ticketing system works, whilst it is made clear in the (11 billion, small print) conditions that activation is automatic 'on the day'.

Thank you for this. Hopefully they will realise I was not in Manchester.

The buyer did NOT activate the purchase by pressing any proceed button of any colour.

This is the exact point I have made. No one else sees this.

TBirdFrank said:
The App apparently did that all on its own when he closed the phone believing he had confirmed the product he wanted to buy - but not proceeded to finalise the transaction.

This would make an interesting case under the Consumer Rights Act 2015 which makes it abundantly clear that a vendor has to treat a purchaser failry and reasonably - and taking his money when he did not intend to transfer it or to actually make a purchase seems damned unreasonable to me.

It is a great shame that the purchaser is not a Greater Manchester resident as he could write to his local councillor rep on the TfGM Board - but perhaps a letter to his MP may not go amiss.

TfGM are well known for being away on their own agenda and the odd slap down may do them a power of good.

Agreed. I am a regular user of Metrolink. To be honest, I could have easily got away with not paying, as their ticket inspections are awful. There are THOUSANDS of people daily avoiding their fare and they don't seem to be doing anything about it. On my last three visits to Manchester I have not had my ticket checked once. I still, however, always buy a day ticket so it's very bad as a valued and honest paying passenger that I've been treated like this when they can't even be bothered to do their own checks on their own services.

I must admit I've downloaded the GetMeThere app to my android but have not had the confidence to use it in anger.

TfGM are making a right pig's ear of this.

Indeed they are! Awful.
 

najaB

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This is the exact point I have made. No one else sees this.
What you seem to not appreciate is that you don't have to do anything to activate them and it says so on the website. This really is a case of not reading the instructions.

As I said above, you may have a valid complaint about their reply to you but the app worked exactly as per design.
 

Tetchytyke

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Except it didn't. You're failing to grasp this very point.

Except it did, which is why you're having this argument.

Furthermore it's ridiculous anyway. There should just be an option to buy it and save it for a future day.

Maybe there should be, but there isn't. The guide on the website is very clear that tickets are immediately validated. The fact you didn't read it properly is not the fault of TfGM.
 

najaB

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It wasn't their tone, it was just them saying it was my own fault. Which it partly is, but not of all it is.
Okay, I tried to ignore this but it's just bugging me - how, exactly, is it not 100% your fault? I don't get it, but maybe you can make it clear.
 

Llanigraham

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I do though. My location services on my phone prove I was in Cardiff, and I have screenshots to prove it.
No, sorry, that only proves that the phone was in Cardiff.

Except it didn't. You're failing to grasp this very point.
No we aren't.

Regardless of what the T&C's say, had I not closed the app the ticket still would not have been validated to this very day. Furthermore it's ridiculous anyway. There should just be an option to buy it and save it for a future day.
The T & C's are perfectly plain in their "instructions" and the fact is that you did not take them into account. Whether it is ridiculous or not does not matter.

I wouldn't exactly call it 'abundantly' clear; in fact, I'd say it was far from it....
Seems like plenty of us understand them........

It wasn't their tone, it was just them saying it was my own fault. Which it partly is, but not of all it is.
No, it is completely your fault because you did not read the full T & C's.

It's not necessary on here.
If you think it inappropriate then I suggest you report it to the Mods, but as they and the Forum legal expert have used it numerous times in the past, and it is commonly used elsewhere I see no reason for your complaint.

Thank you for this. Hopefully they will realise I was not in Manchester.
They may, but I suggest that you need more proof than just a few phone details.

This is the exact point I have made. No one else sees this.
I wonder why?
 

najaB

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Seriously you're all doing my nut in. Going round in circles.
No, I really want to understand why it's not 100% your fault to see what the basis of your complaint is. That way we can help you word your letter/email to get the best result.

I can't see it, so help me to help you.
 

ValleyLines142

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Okay, I tried to ignore this but it's just bugging me - how, exactly, is it not 100% your fault? I don't get it, but maybe you can make it clear.

Yes I missed the bit off about immediate activation. HOWEVER, when I purchased it, it still wasn't activated and was just lying grey in the basket. I'd paid for it, I just needed to push the grey button where it would then go green to say activate. But when I closed the app it then decided to activate.
 

najaB

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Yes I missed the bit off about immediate activation.
Since the app operated by design, the only basis you really have for complaint is that it's not made clear enough on the website that tickets will automatically activate.

To be honest, I doubt they will entertain this complaint, as the fact that tickets auto-activate isn't exactly hidden away. I did a little experiment and gave someone in the office the website URL and asked them how to activate a ticket and they found it in about two minutes.

Perhaps a better way to approach it would be to say how disappointed you were to find out that there's no way to store tickets for later or buy for future use.
 

Llanigraham

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Yes I missed the bit off about immediate activation. HOWEVER, when I purchased it, it still wasn't activated and was just lying grey in the basket. I'd paid for it, I just needed to push the grey button where it would then go green to say activate. But when I closed the app it then decided to activate.

The only person going round in circles is you.

As has been said several times, by several of us, the information about the App being immediately activated was in the T & C's, and you have confirmed that in your own words above.

You made an assumption which has been proven to have been incorrect because it appears you did NOT fully read the T & C's. You have no come-back against the operator, so I suggest you put this down to experience and learn from it.
 

fowler9

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Whilst I feel sorry for the OP it does appear that the system worked the way it was meant to according to the terms and conditions. Even with paper tickets, in Berlin when I bought a 24 hour travel pass it was valid from when I stamped it, in Budapest my 72 hour travel pass was valid for 72 hours from when I bought it which meant I could use it on 4 separate days but I didn't stamp it when I started using it, in Liverpool if you buy a Saveaway it is valid on the day you bought it (Unless it is a scratch card that you validate yourself). I don't think that it being different elsewhere would be a valid complaint.

Perhaps it should be made clearer and that would be a valid complaint, I doubt a refund would be on the cards though. Maybe a gesture of good will.
 
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