MG11 issued, please help

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Mem

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Hi people

Today on my usual trip from Blackfriars to luton on the way home from work I sat down in 1st class, a station later the ticket guy came on and asked for my 1st class ticket.
I mentioned I thought it was declassified still (as to be fair I normally just sit in a standard carriage) I got up and said I'll move on to another part of the train.
He stood in my way and started to tell me he was going to issue me a 40 pound ticket!
I said that I will move on to another part of the train as explained as i thought it was declassified, he wasn't having any of it and carried trying to issue me with a 40 pound ticket. I did say to him it's ridiculous and I wasn't going to pay 40 pound for a misunderstanding.
He then said he will give me a mg11?!?!
I said I had no idea what that was but I will move and it's problem solved, simular to many ticket people I've seen just ask people to move before issuing fines etc
He stood in my way so I couldn't move and started to read my my rights???
He then wrote stuff down and asked me to sign, i declined!
I offered to pay the fine but my partner who was meeting me at the station had my card. I offered to pay and tried to come to some compromise. I said as soon as i get to the station I will pay as i will have the card.
He said if i don't pay now that's it.
To make matters worse he got off the train at the same stop I did, so I could of actually just paid the fine

Apparently I have to wait 24 days to get this letter?

Any help or advice will be greatfully accepted
 
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Starmill

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Which train, exactly, were you travelling on? And on what date?
 

Mem

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So it would not have been declassified, unless specifically declared so before departure. Did you give your correct name and address?
I did not no, in November I was asulted by a ticket officer and made a complaint, when he blocked my path and refused to let me pass, i knoe it sounds stupid but I wrote my old address. But and there is a big but, ehen I moved carried eventually I did walk back up to him and point out that he may want to use my address thats registered on my travel card not what i have him. I also phoned thameslink within half an hour of it happening and gave all my details etc.
Not ideal but??!?
 

6Gman

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I did not no, in November I was asulted by a ticket officer and made a complaint, when he blocked my path and refused to let me pass, i knoe it sounds stupid but I wrote my old address. But and there is a big but, ehen I moved carried eventually I did walk back up to him and point out that he may want to use my address thats registered on my travel card not what i have him. I also phoned thameslink within half an hour of it happening and gave all my details etc.
Not ideal but??!?

Sorry, is all of the above related to a single incident in November?
 

6Gman

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Hi people

Today on my usual trip from Blackfriars to luton on the way home from work I sat down in 1st class, a station later the ticket guy came on and asked for my 1st class ticket.
I mentioned I thought it was declassified still (as to be fair I normally just sit in a standard carriage) I got up and said I'll move on to another part of the train.
He stood in my way and started to tell me he was going to issue me a 40 pound ticket!
I said that I will move on to another part of the train as explained as i thought it was declassified, he wasn't having any of it and carried trying to issue me with a 40 pound ticket. I did say to him it's ridiculous and I wasn't going to pay 40 pound for a misunderstanding.
He then said he will give me a mg11?!?!
I said I had no idea what that was but I will move and it's problem solved, simular to many ticket people I've seen just ask people to move before issuing fines etc
He stood in my way so I couldn't move and started to read my my rights???
He then wrote stuff down and asked me to sign, i declined!
I offered to pay the fine but my partner who was meeting me at the station had my card. I offered to pay and tried to come to some compromise. I said as soon as i get to the station I will pay as i will have the card.
He said if i don't pay now that's it.
To make matters worse he got off the train at the same stop I did, so I could of actually just paid the fine

Apparently I have to wait 24 days to get this letter?

Any help or advice will be greatfully accepted

There will be others who can offer further advice, but it sounds as though the following has happened:

1. You sat in 1st Class accommodation with a Standard Class ticket.
2. An authorised member of the railway staff discovered you there and tried to issue you with a Penalty Fare (which is a fixed charge for genuine errors rather than taking the prosecution route).
3. You declined the Penalty Fare.
4. The member of staff then pursued the alternative option of completing an MG11 (which I believe is essentially a witness statement setting out the circumstances of the incident) to be passed to the revenue protection department to then consider the appropriate way forward, which might include prosecution.
5. You declined to sign the witness statement, and then (but only then) offered to pay the Penalty Fare instead. But only at your destination because you had no means to pay. I could understand some scepticism on the part of the staff member that you had gone to work without the means to pay £40.
6. The staff member declined to enter into any such arrangement.

You will now need to await a letter from the train operator, which may give you an opportunity to explain your actions. However, given that you admit you were sitting in First Class without the appropriate ticket then a byelaw prosecution would surely succeed.

[This all assumes that the section was not declassified of course]
 

Mem

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Sorry, is all of the above related to a single incident in November?
No lol there was an incident in November. Reminded me of it when he cornered me is all.
The mg12 thing that I need help with as above
I gave the wrong address as i felt cornered but I quickly corrected it with him. Weather he noted that or not. But i also called thameslink straight away and set the record straight
 

Kite159

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17:12 from Blackfriars is a Brighton - Bedford service in case anybody is wondering, so they do carry first class in the leading coach unless declassified.
 

Mem

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There will be others who can offer further advice, but it sounds as though the following has happened:

1. You sat in 1st Class accommodation with a Standard Class ticket.
2. An authorised member of the railway staff discovered you there and tried to issue you with a Penalty Fare (which is a fixed charge for genuine errors rather than taking the prosecution route).
3. You declined the Penalty Fare.
4. The member of staff then pursued the alternative option of completing an MG11 (which I believe is essentially a witness statement setting out the circumstances of the incident) to be passed to the revenue protection department to then consider the appropriate way forward, which might include prosecution.
5. You declined to sign the witness statement, and then (but only then) offered to pay the Penalty Fare instead. But only at your destination because you had no means to pay. I could understand some scepticism on the part of the staff member that you had gone to work without the means to pay £40.
6. The staff member declined to enter into any such arrangement.

You will now need to await a letter from the train operator, which may give you an opportunity to explain your actions. However, given that you admit you were sitting in First Class without the appropriate ticket then a byelaw prosecution would surely succeed.

[This all assumes that the section was not declassified of course]

When sitting in the 1st class section I actually thought it was still declassified, hence the reason I sat there.
When he said it was a 40 pound fine he wanted it there and then. I had 3.50 in my wallet so couldn't so that
I said I could pay at the station when I get my card
Thr same station he got off at
Only reason I didn't pay is because i couldnt
 

Mem

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There will be others who can offer further advice, but it sounds as though the following has happened:

1. You sat in 1st Class accommodation with a Standard Class ticket.
2. An authorised member of the railway staff discovered you there and tried to issue you with a Penalty Fare (which is a fixed charge for genuine errors rather than taking the prosecution route).
3. You declined the Penalty Fare.
4. The member of staff then pursued the alternative option of completing an MG11 (which I believe is essentially a witness statement setting out the circumstances of the incident) to be passed to the revenue protection department to then consider the appropriate way forward, which might include prosecution.
5. You declined to sign the witness statement, and then (but only then) offered to pay the Penalty Fare instead. But only at your destination because you had no means to pay. I could understand some scepticism on the part of the staff member that you had gone to work without the means to pay £40.
6. The staff member declined to enter into any such arrangement.

You will now need to await a letter from the train operator, which may give you an opportunity to explain your actions. However, given that you admit you were sitting in First Class without the appropriate ticket then a byelaw prosecution would surely succeed.

[This all assumes that the section was not declassified of course]

Please keep in mind i have a monthly travel pass that I re new every month and have done for 2 years.
 

221129

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There will be others who can offer further advice, but it sounds as though the following has happened:

1. You sat in 1st Class accommodation with a Standard Class ticket.
2. An authorised member of the railway staff discovered you there and tried to issue you with a Penalty Fare (which is a fixed charge for genuine errors rather than taking the prosecution route).
3. You declined the Penalty Fare.
4. The member of staff then pursued the alternative option of completing an MG11 (which I believe is essentially a witness statement setting out the circumstances of the incident) to be passed to the revenue protection department to then consider the appropriate way forward, which might include prosecution.
5. You declined to sign the witness statement, and then (but only then) offered to pay the Penalty Fare instead. But only at your destination because you had no means to pay. I could understand some scepticism on the part of the staff member that you had gone to work without the means to pay £40.
6. The staff member declined to enter into any such arrangement.

You will now need to await a letter from the train operator, which may give you an opportunity to explain your actions. However, given that you admit you were sitting in First Class without the appropriate ticket then a byelaw prosecution would surely succeed.

[This all assumes that the section was not declassified of course]
And gave a false address making it a slam dunk RoRA case.
 

6Gman

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When sitting in the 1st class section I actually thought it was still declassified, hence the reason I sat there.
When he said it was a 40 pound fine he wanted it there and then. I had 3.50 in my wallet so couldn't so that
I said I could pay at the station when I get my card
Thr same station he got off at
Only reason I didn't pay is because i couldnt

None of which alters the basic fact; that you were in breach of the regulations.
 

Mem

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And gave a false address making it a slam dunk RoRA case.
Very quickly corrected and like I said I even phoned thameslink and told them. Stupid I know but I told the guy like 2 mins after and called thameslink
 

221129

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Very quickly corrected and like I said I even phoned thameslink and told them. Stupid I know but I told the guy like 2 mins after and called thameslink
Which isn't really relevant. Basically This is going to cost you a lot more that £40...
 

Mem

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'Fraid that's irrelevant.
Was more to point out that I have a travel card and sat there thinking it was declassified
Didnt want people thinking I got on without a pass

I was willing to move and in most cases thry do just ask you to move on. Concidering I could of paid if he just listened and didn't jump straight to the mg11 thing
 

221129

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Was more to point out that I have a travel card and sat there thinking it was declassified
Didnt want people thinking I got on without a pass

I was willing to move and in most cases thry do just ask you to move on. Concidering I could of paid if he just listened and didn't jump straight to the mg11 thing
You were offered the chance to pay and declined!
 

Mem

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Which isn't really relevant. Basically This is going to cost you a lot more that £40...

Why ?
I corrected it with him and made him aware and told thameslink myself. I was happy to pay the 40 pound.
I had a travel card just sat there by mistake

I mean I'm still willing to pay them the 40 or what ever.
How much more ?
 

221129

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Why ?
I corrected it with him and made him aware and told thameslink myself. I was happy to pay the 40 pound.
I had a travel card just sat there by mistake

I mean I'm still willing to pay them the 40 or what ever.
How much more ?
The fine in court is up to £1000 plus costs. IF you can settle out of court then it would likely be be in the £100 to £200 mark
 

Mem

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You were offered the chance to pay and declined!
Did u see the reason I declined??? I can't pay if the Mrs has the bank card mate
I said to the guy that I can pay but I need my card. I hardly defined. I even asked if i can have a slip or something so I can pay at lut9n. The same station he got off at
 

gray1404

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Did you give a false name? To be honest if you have given false details then it will be very hard for the train company to do anything else about it.

Now did the ticket inspector use the word "fine"? Or did he said he was issuing a penalty fare? Also, did he tell you that you have 21 days to pay it or could pay it there and then if you wish. Did he also tell you that there is an appeal process?

A ticket inspector should not be using the word "fine" to describe a penalty fare and they should also not be offering a PF on the basis that full payment is required, then withdrawing such an offer if the customer cannot pay in full.

If this is what is happening then we need to know about it. However I notice the posters on here who describe such situations are also the ones who often refuse details so I am not sure how much to believe.

Also, I do not believe it is GTR policy to detain a passenger (yes I know some could argue that rail staff are allowed to in certain circumstances but many operators do not wish to open this can of worms) so I am not sure he should have stood in your way and prevented you from moving down the train.
 

Mem

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Did you give a false name? To be honest if you have given false details then it will be very hard for the train company to do anything else about it.

Now did the ticket inspector use the word "fine"? Or did he said he was issuing a penalty fare? Also, did he tell you that you have 21 days to pay it or could pay it there and then if you wish. Did he also tell you that there is an appeal process?

A ticket inspector should not be using the word "fine" to describe a penalty fare and they should also not be offering a PF on the basis that full payment is required, then withdrawing such an offer if the customer cannot pay in full.

If this is what is happening then we need to know about it. However I notice the posters on here who describe such situations are also the ones who often refuse details so I am not sure how much to believe.

Also, I do not believe it is GTR policy to detain a passenger (yes I know some could argue that rail staff are allowed to in certain circumstances but many operators do not wish to open this can of worms) so I am not sure he should have stood in your way and prevented you from moving down the train.

I travel on a daily basis and pay for every trip like many others
Yes i have a false name and address but I'm not like that as a person. Was mainly because it reminded me of when I was cornered last timr by there staff and to be fair I was a bit worried and stupid
I very quickly corrected myself however and told him to use my details they have on there system against my travel card ID number to contact me not on that address I gave him
I also phoned thameslink and told thrm this also so I have tried to be as honest as i can. Well after I made a mistake anyway

I can't remember what wording he used to be honest
I explained I can pay just not there and then as he requested as my wife was shopping with my card. I said as soon as she meets me at the station I can make payment.
He actually got off at my station as well

He blocked my path and after being asked 3 times to move out of my way he still refused.

Train was in motion the whole time and I was very polite. To the point in.very happy for them to view the cctv

Point I'm making is if i had the option to pay In a set time I would of. I mean I would of paid as soon as i got off the train as i explained to him

Just think all this concidering it is harsh concidering the circumstances is all and wanted to know where i stand
 

gray1404

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So much as I do not ever recommend giving false details, I think you might have made matters ten times worse by admitting to them you have lied.

I do not believe you should have been detained in the carriage like you where and you should have have been advised that a penalty fare didn't need to be paid there and then and that you have 21 days to pay it and also can appeal.

The next step is for you to wait to receive a letter from them in the post. Nothing more you can do until that happens.
 

Mem

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So much as I do not ever recommend giving false details, I think you might have made matters ten times worse by admitting to them you have lied.

I do not believe you should have been detained in the carriage like you where and you should have have been advised that a penalty fare didn't need to be paid there and then and that you have 21 days to pay it and also can appeal.

The next step is for you to wait to receive a letter from them in the post. Nothing more you can do until that happens.

There's me thinking I was doing a good thing lol
I mean he had my card if number and that corresponds to me anyway so in affect he already had my details.
There's me thinking honesty will go in my favour.
 

Master29

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There's me thinking I was doing a good thing lol
I mean he had my card if number and that corresponds to me anyway so in affect he already had my details.
There's me thinking honesty will go in my favour.
But sadly you offered the very excuses that Revenue staff know by heart. "I`m a good honest person that made a mistake" type of thing. I`m not doubting your decency as a person but look at this from their POV. They here this all the time. hell my daughter used it and didn`t get away with it either. Honesty may only go in your favour in as much as you might be offered an out of court settlement which I would definitely urge you to accept.
 

NoOnesFool

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There's me thinking I was doing a good thing lol
I mean he had my card if number and that corresponds to me anyway so in affect he already had my details.
There's me thinking honesty will go in my favour.
You haven't been honest, you travelled without a valid ticket, refused to pay the Penalty Fare amd then gave a false address. It's not looking good for you.
 
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