Mg11 issued

[Diii98]

Hi I’d like some advice please.

I was issued a mg11 by southeastern after failing to tap in at open barriers.

I explained to staff that my phone had died as I was on my way home from work, and I use Apple Pay to tap in. I managed to charge my phone on the train and went to staff to ask them if it was okay to tap out and if it would work with Apple Pay even though I hadn’t tapped in due to phone beingdead

They instead proceeded to ask me for my details, to which I refused because I honestly just wanted to know if it was fine to tap out with Apple Pay, but they wanted to fine me and I didn’t understand why. There was a dispute after dancing around giving details, initially I gave my old home address but then later gave my real details. I don’t know what compelled me to lie initially, perhaps the frustration with being honest about why I was unable to tap in or just not wanting to give my details in the first place as I was always willing to pay.

I expressed to staff multiple times I have means to pay I am willing to pay, she decided to caution me and later I received a a letter in the post asking to write my version of events, provisionally authorised for prosecution.

in the letter I replied back within the 7 days, explaining what happened but also apologising for any inconveniences caused, offered to pay again and contributions to their costs.

my question to you guys is how likely are they to prosecute, in general do these usually go to court? This is detrimental to my job so I am really worried about this and I haven’t heard from them for almost a month now

Any help would be much appreciated thank you so much

 

[_toommm_]

As an aside, if your iPhone ever dies in the future, you can still use Apple Pay to pay for travel. Go into the Wallet, tap on your card, then enable ‘Express Travel’.

 

[Darandio]

As an aside, if your iPhone ever dies in the future, you can still use Apple Pay to pay for travel. Go into the Wallet, tap on your card, then enable ‘Express Travel’.

I'm confused. If your phone is dead how can you do those things?

 

[_toommm_]

I'm confused. If your phone is dead how can you do those things?

Enable the Express Travel before your phone dies and keep it turned on, as per the following page - it was more of a ‘for the future’ thing as I say for the OP:

Use Express Mode with travel cards, passes and keys in Apple Wallet

With Express Mode, you can use cards, passes and keys in the Wallet app with just a tap.

support.apple.com

 

[Diii98]

Enable the Express Travel before your phone dies and keep it turned on, as per the following page - it was more of a ‘for the future’ thing as I say for the OP:

Use Express Mode with travel cards, passes and keys in Apple Wallet

With Express Mode, you can use cards, passes and keys in the Wallet app with just a tap.

support.apple.com

Thank you for responding had no idea you could do this!

 

[Ediswan]

Enable the Express Travel before your phone dies and keep it turned on, as per the following page - it was more of a ‘for the future’ thing as I say for the OP:

Use Express Mode with travel cards, passes and keys in Apple Wallet

With Express Mode, you can use cards, passes and keys in the Wallet app with just a tap.

support.apple.com

Another quote from the same page:

To use Express Travel, your iPhone or Apple Watch must be turned on, but they don't have to be connected to a network

 

[skyhigh]

I explained to staff that my phone had died as I was on my way home from work, and I use Apple Pay to tap in. I managed to charge my phone on the train and went to staff to ask them if it was okay to tap out and if it would work with Apple Pay even though I hadn’t tapped in due to phone beingdead

They instead proceeded to ask me for my details, to which I refused because I honestly just wanted to know if it was fine to tap out with Apple Pay, but they wanted to fine me and I didn’t understand why. There was a dispute after dancing around giving details, initially I gave my old home address but then later gave my real details. I don’t know what compelled me to lie initially, perhaps the frustration with being honest about why I was unable to tap in or just not wanting to give my details in the first place as I was always willing to pay.

From the train company's point of view, it should be fairly obvious that if you don't tap in you won't be charged the correct fare if you just tap out. You've probably not done yourself a favour by initially providing a false address either. Ultimately it's your responsibility to have a working, valid, method of payment before you start your journey so they're well within their rights to prosecute.

However, if you haven't come to their attention before you're likely to get an offer of a settlement having engaged with them by replying to their letter in the way you have.

Enable the Express Travel before your phone dies and keep it turned on, as per the following page - it was more of a ‘for the future’ thing as I say for the OP:

Use Express Mode with travel cards, passes and keys in Apple Wallet

With Express Mode, you can use cards, passes and keys in the Wallet app with just a tap.

support.apple.com

That link clearly states

To use Express Travel, your iPhone or Apple Watch must be turned on, but they don't have to be connected to a network.

So that's of no use to the OP, and potentially unhelpful if they find themselves in the same position again!

 

[bb21]

To answer your original question, if you were contrite and were honest in your replies, for a first offence you are likely to end up with a settlement offer. No guarantee of course but provided there were no other aggravating factor, eg. being abusive towards revenue staff, such an outcome is common.

Unfortunately touching in correctly is solely your responsibility, so you were correctly dealt with in line with passengers who travelled without a ticket. You may wish to carry a portable power bank with you next time if your phone is likely to run out of charge. I am glad you accepted this by virtue of your reply as otherwise you would just make it worse for yourself.

 

[Diii98]

From the train company's point of view, it should be fairly obvious that if you don't tap in you won't be charged the correct fare if you just tap out. You've probably not done yourself a favour by initially providing a false address either. Ultimately it's your responsibility to have a working, valid, method of payment before you start your journey so they're well within their rights to prosecute.

However, if you haven't come to their attention before you're likely to get an offer of a settlement having engaged with them by replying to their letter in the way you have.



That link clearly states

So that's of no use to the OP, and potentially unhelpful if they find themselves in the same position again!

Ahh correct, I don’t have an Apple Watch either

Thank you for your response!

To answer your original question, if you were contrite and were honest in your replies, for a first offence you are likely to end up with a settlement offer. No guarantee of course but provided there were no other aggravating factor, eg. being abusive towards revenue staff, such an outcome is common.

Unfortunately touching in correctly is solely your responsibility, so you were correctly dealt with in line with passengers who travelled without a ticket. You may wish to carry a portable power bank with you next time if your phone is likely to run out of charge. I am glad you accepted this by virtue of your reply as otherwise you would just make it worse for yourself.

I completely understand thank you for your response

 

[_toommm_]

To reply to everyone, if you scroll down, it says:

You can use power reserve with your Express Transit cards to quickly pay for rides. On your compatible iPhone with the latest iOS version, power reserve is available for up to five hours when your iPhone needs to be charged.

To see if Express Transit cards are available when your iPhone needs to be charged, press the side button. Doing this often may significantly reduce the power reserve for Express Transit cards. If you choose to power off your iPhone, this feature will not be available.*

So as you’ll see, even if the phone has died, the card is still available to use for public transport. My phone has died before, and when it turns itself off, it says ‘Express Cards available’.

 

[Deafdoggie]

To reply to everyone, if you scroll down, it says:




So as you’ll see, even if the phone has died, the card is still available to use for public transport. My phone has died before, and when it turns itself off, it says ‘Express Cards available’.

Only on the latest models & power reserve mode. If you have iPhone 9 or earlier, or your phone has truly died rather than being in power reserve, it's still not going to solve the problem.

 

[gray1404]

So to get this clear you have now received a letter that you need to reply to with your version of events which you have already replied to. What did you say in your reply? The next step would be to wait to hear back from the train company again.

 

[Diii98]

So to get this clear you have now received a letter that you need to reply to with your version of events which you have already replied to. What did you say in your reply? The next step would be to wait to hear back from the train company again.

I just briefly explained what happened at the time, and how the staff wanted my details even though I had intentions to pay I just physically couldn’t. I apologised for any inconveniences and stated again I’d be happy to pay out of court etc and any additional costs, it’s been almost a month havent heard back from them

 

[gray1404]

Okay it seams like your letter to them covered the basics in terms of saying sorry and offering to pay the fare and their costs. I guess there is nothing further you can do now other then to wait for a further reply from them. When you hear back again do report back here so you can receive further help if needed. If do that when they do respond they offer you a settlement. If they do this be sure to pay it promptly and in full. If they do not offer you a settlement then we can advice further as we have seen on here before, cases where people have asked the train company a second time to settle out of court.

Good luck!

 

[Diii98]

Okay it seams like your letter to them covered the basics in terms of saying sorry and offering to pay the fare and their costs. I guess there is nothing further you can do now other then to wait for a further reply from them. When you hear back again do report back here so you can receive further help if needed. If do that when they do respond they offer you a settlement. If they do this be sure to pay it promptly and in full. If they do not offer you a settlement then we can advice further as we have seen on here before, cases where people have asked the train company a second time to settle out of court.

Good luck!

Thank you very much I will update you guys!
Do you know how likely they are to refuse settling and sending to court?

 

[Wallsendmag]

Only on the latest models & power reserve mode. If you have iPhone 9 or earlier, or your phone has truly died rather than being in power reserve, it's still not going to solve the problem.

If you have an iPhone 9 I'd like to buy it.

 

[Deafdoggie]

If you have an iPhone 9 I'd like to buy it.

I was wondering when you'd spot that!