Mid 1970s Bedpan Line Timetable

[pitdiver]

I am trying to find if there are anywhere the above timetables. In particular 1974-1975. Not necessarily full timetable but a summary of the services between Luton and Bedford.

thank You

 

[jfollows]

I have 1968-69 WTT which I can investigate further if it's any use to you. But it's not what you ask for. Mid-1970s I only have Wellingborough and north thereof.

 

[Dr Hoo]

1974 was before electrification and the 'Bedpan' moniker.

The suburban DMU service was basically hourly off peak (St Pancras, fast to Radlett then all stations to Bedford). There was all 'all stations' local from St Pancras that terminated at Luton. The longer distance inter city services generally called at both Luton and Bedford, thus providing a second hourly service between Luton and Bedford.

There were quite a few variations on Saturdays and obviously 'rush hour' additionals that could take frequencies up to four per hour.

A typical sort of resource-hungry, un-memorable pattern of the period.

Hope this helps. I worked around that area at the time.

 

[eastwestdivide]

The longer distance inter city services generally called at both Luton and Bedford

And some at St Albans too.

 

[MCSHF007]

From the 6/5/74 to 4/5/75 GBTT (Great British Timetable)

 

[nw1]

I don't know if 1981 is too late but it is pre-electrification and therefore possibly of interest. It's available on https://timetableworld.com/, look for ABC November 1981 timetable. Of note is the decidedly non-clockface pattern of the InterCity trains and only two off-peak DMUs per hour, though on the plus side there is a good peak frequency increase on those local DMUs.

Looking at the 1974 timetables here, the InterCity services are much more regular than 1981, leaving St Pancras at xx30. I have noticed that clockface patterns seemed to go out of fashion for a while around the early and especially the mid 80s, having been quite fashionable in the immediate post-Beeching era of the early 70s. Not sure why this is. Another example (probably a subject for another thread) is the very regular pattern of HST departures out of Paddington in 1981 (so slightly different timescale to St Pancras) and the more irregular patterns seen later in the eighties, when even Bristol did not get a consistent departure time in every off-peak hour out of Paddington.

 

[flymo]

I have the summer '74 to summer '75 TT, if nobody else posts, I'll post some screenshots, or summaries if that is better, tomorrow UK time (already nighty night time here in Asia).

 

[pitdiver]

Thanks guys, got the info I needed for my research.

 

[RT4038]

1974 was before electrification and the 'Bedpan' moniker.

The suburban DMU service was basically hourly off peak (St Pancras, fast to Radlett then all stations to Bedford). There was all 'all stations' local from St Pancras that terminated at Luton. The longer distance inter city services generally called at both Luton and Bedford, thus providing a second hourly service between Luton and Bedford.

There were quite a few variations on Saturdays and obviously 'rush hour' additionals that could take frequencies up to four per hour.

A typical sort of resource-hungry, un-memorable pattern of the period.

Hope this helps. I worked around that area at the time.

On a point of accuracy - The Bedford service ran fast to Elstree then all Stations. The hourly 'longer distance' train ran alternately to Derby or Nottingham and stopped at St Albans, Luton and Bedford.

The pattern was memorable, as each train ran every hour at the same minutes past. Not sure what you mean by 'resource-hungry' - sure the peak augmentation meant a number of units only ran for a few hours each day. The real oddity was the Luton-Moorgate all stations service in the peak, which utilised a different type of unit, that was not used on anything else.

 

[jfollows]

A 1973-74 working timetable for the route has just been offered for sale on eBay: 1973 London Midland Region Railway Working Timetable Section J Midland Mainline

 

[Magdalia]

The real oddity was the Luton-Moorgate all stations service in the peak, which utilised a different type of unit, that was not used on anything else.

... because they were required to be tripcock fitted to work the "Widened Lines". There were possibly also platform length restrictions, I think a pair of 4 cars would have been too long.

 

[Dr Hoo]

On a point of accuracy - The Bedford service ran fast to Elstree then all Stations. The hourly 'longer distance' train ran alternately to Derby or Nottingham and stopped at St Albans, Luton and Bedford.

The pattern was memorable, as each train ran every hour at the same minutes past. Not sure what you mean by 'resource-hungry' - sure the peak augmentation meant a number of units only ran for a few hours each day. The real oddity was the Luton-Moorgate all stations service in the peak, which utilised a different type of unit, that was not used on anything else.

Thank you. It was indeed generally 'Elstree' first call.

I didn't mention St Albans because the OP made no reference to the place in their query about 'Luton to Bedford'.

The peaks were very different from the off-peak with quite a long 'transitions'. When added to Saturday peculiarities the timetable was far from memorable in overall terms.

Resource hungriness manifested itself in many peak only diagrams (either extra trains or strengthening/breaking down). There was a lot of ECS running, especially between St Pancras and Cricklewood but also Bedford and Cricklewood. In the days before flexible rostering (i.e. fixed eight-hour train crew shifts) a lot of both drivers and guards basically only delivered one decently loaded run in one direction (either morning or evening) and a lot of stock only earned decent revenue on an overall single round trip per day (roughly 100 miles). Not to mention shunters or the fact that the DMUs didn't have 'conductor guard' operation off peak and stations had staffing all day including platform duties for slam door operation in various places.

 

[A0wen]

... because they were required to be tripcock fitted to work the "Widened Lines". There were possibly also platform length restrictions, I think a pair of 4 cars would have been too long.

BIB - not sure that's right, because up to 1976 the GN also sent units down there and that included Cravens 105s, Class 31s which wouldn't have been tripcock fitted.

In fact the helpful Railcar.co.uk website says in its piece on the 127s:

"Test runs to Moorgate had to be abandoned as their body lengths caused clearance problems in the tunnels."

Class 127 DMU Background

The history of Diesel Multiple Units (DMUs / railcars) in Britain.

www.railcar.co.uk

The GN did, of course, experience tripcocks when they switched their Moorgate services to the Northern City Line and the 313s had to be fitted with them.

 

[Magdalia]

BIB - not sure that's right, because up to 1976 the GN also sent units down there and that included Cravens 105s, Class 31s which wouldn't have been tripcock fitted.

Many class 31s were tripcock fitted from new:

D5586-D5615
D5622-D5627
D5639-D5654
D5671-D5679

See this pic of D5615 which clearly shows the yellow tripcock lever:

026-8-Kings Cross-8-7-67-D5615 | david.l.quayle | Flickr

The Cravens that worked the "Widened Lines" were also tripcock fitted.

"Test runs to Moorgate had to be abandoned as their body lengths caused clearance problems in the tunnels."

I've read that too, but did not include it in my previous post, because the Derby suburban units that were used from the Midland into Moorgate were also 64'. But the 57' length restriction definitely applied on the Hotel Curve up to the GN.

 

[nw1]

On a point of accuracy - The Bedford service ran fast to Elstree then all Stations. The hourly 'longer distance' train ran alternately to Derby or Nottingham and stopped at St Albans, Luton and Bedford.

Was there also a Sheffield which didn't call at St Albans, Luton and Bedford incidentally? One might guess it would have left on the hour if so, as the 'prime' service of the line and to give even-interval service to Leicester.

The pattern was memorable, as each train ran every hour at the same minutes past.

... unlike 1981 as discussed above, with irregular departure times and stops. I'm wondering, come to think of it, whether the erratic IC timetable in 1981 was anything to do with engineering works for the electrification.

Not sure what you mean by 'resource-hungry' - sure the peak augmentation meant a number of units only ran for a few hours each day. The real oddity was the Luton-Moorgate all stations service in the peak, which utilised a different type of unit, that was not used on anything else.

Indeed, such was the nature of peak augmentation and commonplace across the network in BR and even early-privatisation days.

 

[Pigeon]

Well what do you do? If everyone wants to travel during the same brief period then you need to run more/longer trains during that period. I mean you could just not bother and compel most of them to drive instead, but that's no good. Or you could run lots of long trains all the time, and have them whizzing up and down with nobody on them all day, but that seems kind of pointless. It's a bit daft to call an operator down for very sensibly varying the level of service in accordance with the number of people wanting to use it.

 

[nw1]

Well what do you do? If everyone wants to travel during the same brief period then you need to run more/longer trains during that period. I mean you could just not bother and compel most of them to drive instead, but that's no good. Or you could run lots of long trains all the time, and have them whizzing up and down with nobody on them all day, but that seems kind of pointless. It's a bit daft to call an operator down for very sensibly varying the level of service in accordance with the number of people wanting to use it.

Completely agree on this, not sure if it was my post or an earlier post you were replying to but my position is that peak augmentation was sensible as it provided the services that were needed when people needed them.

 

[Sprinter107]

On a point of accuracy - The Bedford service ran fast to Elstree then all Stations. The hourly 'longer distance' train ran alternately to Derby or Nottingham and stopped at St Albans, Luton and Bedford.

The pattern was memorable, as each train ran every hour at the same minutes past. Not sure what you mean by 'resource-hungry' - sure the peak augmentation meant a number of units only ran for a few hours each day. The real oddity was the Luton-Moorgate all stations service in the peak, which utilised a different type of unit, that was not used on anything else.

Those class 116 suburban sets used on the Luton to Moorgate service, also were used on the Kentish Town to Barking line.

 

[nw1]

Thank you. It was indeed generally 'Elstree' first call.

I didn't mention St Albans because the OP made no reference to the place in their query about 'Luton to Bedford'.

The peaks were very different from the off-peak with quite a long 'transitions'.

Mind you, regarding the peak, is that not just the nature of the peak (in the pre-Covid days when peak was necessary, at least?) You have to increase the service in the peak, but there might not be the paths available to double the off-peak service (by keeping the basic off-peak timetable and inserting additional services) so it may be necessary to increase the off-peak offering by a smaller amount (for example half-hourly to 20-minutely). The nature of this will mean inevitably that some peak trains will leave at different times to off-peak, and also, pathing constraints might force 'odd times' (like say 1743 rather than 1745) during the peak.

That said, I agree that the peak pattern in this particular case is quite erratic.

 

[RT4038]

Those class 116 suburban sets used on the Luton to Moorgate service, also were used on the Kentish Town to Barking line.

Ah right, of course. The sets used to overnight at Bedford, and travel ECS to Luton to start. I recall waiting for a train at Bedford Midland Road early one morning and one of these came rolling through from the carriage sidings (where the station car park is now) displaying 'Newton-Le-Willows' on the destination blind!
These Moorgate trains were first dieselised with Birmingham RC&W type 2 diesels (later Class 26 or 27?); more exotically MetroVick Co-Bo diesel were tried for a short period before being banished to Barrow.

 

[Sprinter107]

S

Ah right, of course. The sets used to overnight at Bedford, and travel ECS to Luton to start. I recall waiting for a train at Bedford Midland Road early one morning and one of these came rolling through from the carriage sidings (where the station car park is now) displaying 'Newton-Le-Willows' on the destination blind!
These Moorgate trains were first dieselised with Birmingham RC&W type 2 diesels (later Class 26 or 27?); more exotically MetroVick Co-Bo diesel were tried for a short period before being banished to Barrow.

Some of those locos would be worth a journey behined, especially the Co Bo. Never seen one.

 

[RT4038]

S

Some of those locos would be worth a journey behined, especially the Co Bo. Never seen one.

Sadly I never managed a Co-Bo. But all is not lost - D5705 survived and is being restored at the East Lancs Rly, so maybe a chance in my lifetime..... Recall seeing them at Preston, Lancaster and Carlisle, but never had a chance to ride behind. The Type 26 & 27 were transferred very young to Scotland. Rode behind them plenty of times on various lines and a number are preserved. Last time I rode was on the Bo'ness line.

 

[Sprinter107]

Sadly I never managed a Co-Bo. But all is not lost - D5705 survived and is being restored at the East Lancs Rly, so maybe a chance in my lifetime..... Recall seeing them at Preston, Lancaster and Carlisle, but never had a chance to ride behind. The Type 26 & 27 were transferred very young to Scotland. Rode behind them plenty of times on various lines and a number are preserved. Last time I rode was on the Bo'ness line.

At least you managed to see them in service. Especially with the short service the Co Bo locos had.

 

[StephenHunter]

S

Some of those locos would be worth a journey behined, especially the Co Bo. Never seen one.

I only saw one on Thomas the Tank Engine.

 

[DHB1950]

On a point of accuracy - The Bedford service ran fast to Elstree then all Stations. The hourly 'longer distance' train ran alternately to Derby or Nottingham and stopped at St Albans, Luton and Bedford.

Was there also a Sheffield which didn't call at St Albans, Luton and Bedford incidentally? One might guess it would have left on the hour if so, as the 'prime' service of the line and to give even-interval Yes, the hourly semi-fastsservice to Leicester.

Yes, the hourly semi-fasts from St. Pancras alternated between Derby and Nottingham and were xx:30 from London calling St. Albans, Luton and Bedford, also (necessarily) Wellingborough, Kettering and Market Harbourough. As nw1 asks, there was also an hourly Sheffield fast, normally I think non-stop Leicester, though I couldn’t use it as it didn’t stop at Bedford and don’t know the times off St. Pancras, but probably on the hour. The Sheffields used the double island layout at Leicester to overtake the semis (which only got to Leicester a few minutes before the following fast, so didn’t provide much of a twice-hourly service for Leicester, they were very much for the intermediate stations), with the semi proceeding to the alternate destination (Nottingham/Derby) to the fast. Certainly for a while both the Nottingham and Derby fasts continued to Sheffield, and at least sometimes used a turnover locomotive at Nottingham to save running round and expedite things (Sheffield via Nottingham probably needing that to match times via Derby once the Corby route closed). I used these services quite a few times travelling north in the seventies and found the cross platform interchange at Leicester very useful. Midland Mainline did a similar thing when the 170s were introduced and I was commuting to Leicester for work, but it did seem prone to disruption. The overtaking seemed to get abandoned by East Midlands by the time the Meridians came in.

When the service started, which must have been by 1968, when I was a student at Brighton, the semi-fasts were xx:20 off St. Pancras, only stopped at Luton before Bedford, and were normally a Peak plus six Mark 1s, which used to rattle down the bank from Flitwick pretty quickly. That meant for a happy year or so, once the Victoria line opened and before the St. Pancras start went back to xx:30 and the St. Albans stop was added, I could catch the xx:00 Victoria non-stop from Brighton in the Belle timeslot (though I preferred CIGs - the Belles were rough by 1969/70 and not worth the Pullman supplement), dash down to the tube, comfortably make the xx:20 if unencumbered for a flying weekend home, and if I remember the timing to Bedford correctly as 46 minutes, be there in just over two hours from Brighton. Certainly knocks Thameslink into a cocked hat, and a damn sight more comfortable - even more so now there are 700s, of which my experiences have not been good, though they were unfortunate enough to coincide with peak Luton/Gatwick airport traffic at Easter 2019 as I used up a year’s senior railcard about to expire.

 

[John Webb]

I am trying to find if there are anywhere the above timetables. In particular 1974-1975. Not necessarily full timetable but a summary of the services between Luton and Bedford.

thank You

I assume you were only interested in passenger services? Besides the passenger services there were various parcel and freight trains - I have access to the Freight WTT for 1975/76 at St Albans South signal box as we looked in detail at the mid-1970s services when setting up our more complex simulator several years ago.

 

[flymo]

Sorry, when I said I had the '74/'75 TT, it was actually '75/'76 so a year out from what you were after.
Anyway Tables 52 and 53 are copied in the links below, hopefully viewable OK, let me know if any issues.

T52.pdf

drive.google.com

T53.pdf

drive.google.com

 

[ChiefPlanner]

There were some high peak DMU reversers at both SAC and Harpenden - the former neccesitating the "blocking back" bell signal to ensure safety , - all logged in the extant South Albans South surviving train registers .....