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Midland Metro extension: ex South Staffs line

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MarkWi72

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Does anyone have a better idea than I when this will developing? Word in local politics was that it might be 2024, but I'm not altogether sure what is happening with the track bed. I haven't seen it recently, although my folks live near Dudley Port and I may have a look when I'm next across. The other Metro thread suggests the 21 new trans should be available for these extensions.

I gre wup with the growl and rattle of 20s, 25s, 31s, 37s and 47s on that line and it closed in 1991. I remember the last night of Eagle Lane box. Talk then was having this section done for when the rest of the Metro Line opend and it has been pushed back and pushed back since the early 90s. Was it Phil Bateman who in 1984, came up with the idea? Andy Street needs to deliver on this.
 
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Dave W

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I visited home in June and was surprised by the amount of clearance that had taken place around Dudley - and building work is well underway, both off road and up past the zoo (which I assumed were metro works).

I didn’t see much happening in Brierley Hill but I didn’t really look in the right places.

So from an outside perspective... progress...
 

duncanp

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The extension from Wednesbury to Brierley Hill via Dudley is currently scheduled to open in "late 2023"
 

Dave W

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When I were a lad... it was rather an exciting thought of being able to get the tram from Brierley Hill to places as a young un - half fares and all that! If it’s 2023 I’ll be going to see my mother on the tram for the first time aged 35...
 

duncanp

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gg1

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There were suggestions around 10 years ago that the route could be a shared use line with both Metro and heavy rail freight services.

Is the line being built with that possibility in mind or has the idea been completely scrapped now?
 

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Three labourers wearing orange on site on the trackbed under Dudley Port on Tuesday.
 

duncanp

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There were suggestions around 10 years ago that the route could be a shared use line with both Metro and heavy rail freight services.

Is the line being built with that possibility in mind or has the idea been completely scrapped now?

I am not aware of any plan to share use of the line between trams and heavy rail freight.

The line is being built as a junction from the existing tramway at Wednesbury Parkway, with some street running through the centre of Dudley, so it is difficult to see how heavy rail freight could use it.

See below for an artists impression of the stop in the centre of Dudley.
 

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gg1

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I am not aware of any plan to share use of the line between trams and heavy rail freight.

The line is being built as a junction from the existing tramway at Wednesbury Parkway, with some street running through the centre of Dudley, so it is difficult to see how heavy rail freight could use it.

See below for an artists impression of the stop in the centre of Dudley.
The original proposal was for tram-trains largely following the same route as is being built now (complete with street running through Dudley) with freight running entirely on the old trackbed, so utilising the Dudley tunnel.

We know this isn't the immediate plan any more as the rolling stock will be conventional trams but I was wondering if the construction of the route allows for that to happen at some point in the future, with the track on the non street running sections being laid to heavy rail standards.
 

duncanp

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Looking at the map, I can see that the extension branches off the existing tramway just East of Wednesbury Great Western Street, not Wednesbury Parkway as I stated earlier.

The extension website mentions a proposed frequency of 6 - 8 minutes at peak times, and it is difficult to see how heavy rail freight could use the tramway at the same time, as it tends to be slower and would disrupt the tram service.

It might be possible for freight to use the tramway when passenger services are not running, but I am not aware of any plans to do this.
 

edwin_m

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The original proposal was for tram-trains largely following the same route as is being built now (complete with street running through Dudley) with freight running entirely on the old trackbed, so utilising the Dudley tunnel.

We know this isn't the immediate plan any more as the rolling stock will be conventional trams but I was wondering if the construction of the route allows for that to happen at some point in the future, with the track on the non street running sections being laid to heavy rail standards.
I was involved in a feasibility study in 1997, and again in 2007. We must be due another one by now.

It would have needed some fairly extreme signalling to fit freight trains in between the 6min interval trams that Centro (as was) wanted. The tram-trains overseas (and Sheffield-Rotherham) operate on lower frequencies with 15min being typical, which make it much easer to accommodate heavy rail service too.

Edit: duncanp got there first. I'm also not aware of any current provision for either tram-train or for any parallel heavy rail track, and Dudley Tunnel is now part of the VLR test track.
 

gg1

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I was involved in a feasibility study in 1997, and again in 2007. We must be due another one by now.

It would have needed some fairly extreme signalling to fit freight trains in between the 6min interval trams that Centro (as was) wanted. The tram-trains overseas (and Sheffield-Rotherham) operate on lower frequencies with 15min being typical, which make it much easer to accommodate heavy rail service too.

Edit: duncanp got there first. I'm also not aware of any current provision for either tram-train or for any parallel heavy rail track, and Dudley Tunnel is now part of the VLR test track.
Looking at the map, I can see that the extension branches off the existing tramway just East of Wednesbury Great Western Street, not Wednesbury Parkway as I stated earlier.

The extension website mentions a proposed frequency of 6 - 8 minutes at peak times, and it is difficult to see how heavy rail freight could use the tramway at the same time, as it tends to be slower and would disrupt the tram service.

It might be possible for freight to use the tramway when passenger services are not running, but I am not aware of any plans to do this.
Thanks for the responses, yes the proposed service frequency would scupper plans for shared use of the route somewhat.

Of course there is the question as to if a 6 minute frequency is overkill for the route but that's another subject entirely.
 

edwin_m

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Thanks for the responses, yes the proposed service frequency would scupper plans for shared use of the route somewhat.

Of course there is the question as to if a 6 minute frequency is overkill for the route but that's another subject entirely.
The West Midlands authorities have always gone for a high frequency service, as to be fair have most tramways elsewhere. Just missing a tram and then having to wait 10-15min makes a big different to end to end travel time. The tram-trains are more interurban vehicles for longer journeys, where passengers will probably consult a timetable (or preferably have a set of easily-remembered departure times) instead of just turning up a a stop.

The other problem with the Black Country route is that when they get to Wednesbury the trains can continue to either Birmingham or Wolverhampton. I found a proposed service specification:

Midland Metro Birmingham Edgbaston Extension (metroalliance.co.uk) (table 4.1 on PDF page 33):
(text available in the above link for anyone unable to read the image).

This shows how 10TPH at peak (or one every 6min) actually comes down to some fairly poor frequencies, only 4TPH to the centre of Birmingham all day and only 2TPH to the centre of Wolverhampton in the inter-peak period. So these passengers will certainly need a timetable - admittedly their journeys are going to be longer than an urban hop.
 

duncanp

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I think this problem with frequencies was an issue when the Croydon system was built.

They decided to have a few routes with higher frequencies, rather than making sure that every stop had a through service to every other stop.

Similarly with the District Line on the tube, where all trains from Edgware Road go to Wimbledon rather than some continuing from Earls Court to Ealing Broadway and Richmond.

Up until now this hasn't been an issue with the West Midlands Metro, but with all these different branches being built, they will need to decide on future service patterns.

Once all the extensions under construction have been built, my suggestion would be three separate routes:-
  • Route 1 : Edgbaston Village - Wolverhampton St Georges
  • Route 2 : Brierley Hill - Wolverhampton Station
  • Route 3 : Brierley Hill - Digbeth
Whether you should have a seperate route 4 from Digbeth to Edgbaston Village depends on the capacity of the line, and whether there is a demand for such a through service.

Some people would have to change trams, but with same stop interchange and a standard service frequency on each route this shouldn't be too much of an issue.

Still, it is good to see the system expanding after over 20 years with just one line.
 

P Binnersley

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There were suggestions around 10 years ago that the route could be a shared use line with both Metro and heavy rail freight services.

Is the line being built with that possibility in mind or has the idea been completely scrapped now?

From a RailFuture report (2019)

"Phil Hewitt WM Metro Director confirmed this in Rail magazine issue 874 w/c 13th March 2019 by stating “There is potential to share the route with rail freight traffic and as when bridges on the line are being refurbished or replaced, they will be constructed to be able to handle heavy rail.”

Moreover, in the WMRE Rail Investment Strategy section 7 Integrated Freight Strategy-has the West Midlands Strategic Freight Corridor: Stourbridge-Wednesbury- Walsall as carrying both freight and passengers.

It is therefore clear that future heavy rail operation is not precluded by Midland Metro."
 

DaveHarries

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A recent edition (September 2020) of the Midland Metro Alliance's "Transforming Wolverhampton" bulletin - see https://metroalliance.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2021/09/tramsformingwolves20.pdf - says that bids were approved to "the Government's City Region Sustainable Transport Settlement (CRSTS) fund and Bus Service Improvement Plan fund on Friday 17(th) September which, topped up with local funds, could secure investment of up to £2bn over the next five years." The investment would, according to the bulletin, include "£280m towards improvements to the existing network and for the design and detailed planning work for the next series of extensions."

It is interesting to note that, before the Wednesbury to Brierly Hill link is up and running, the extensions, of which there are four, include:
- Wednesbury to Walsall
- Brierly Hill to Stourbridge

Sounds interesting IMO. I am glad to see that Wednesbury to Walsall is among the plans. The bulletin says that the disused track (east of Potters Lane heading towards Walsall) would be used. I am sure I read somewhere that an idea was in mind to run beyond Walsall station and into the Town Centre but I can't see that part being an easy section to plan or build.

As for Brierly Hill to Stourbridge, maps on the WMMA website suggest that the Brierly Hill stop will be somewhere around Cottage Street. To get from there to Stourbridge I can only presume that the plan would be to use (or link up with) the line that runs, in part, from Moor Street (near Norwood Road) to Stourbridge Junction. The potential then arises for trams to reverse at Stourbridge Junction and head up to Stourbridge Town which would presumably see off the service run between the two using that small railbus and require doubling of the section between Stourbridge Junction and Stourbridge Town. Nothing on the WMMA site as yet though so we will have to see.

HTIOI,
Dave
 
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DaveHarries

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The line from the run round loop to the station isn't disused though.
No, true. That wording came from the bulletin. It is a good while since I got a train into (or out of) Walsall: I only go there if work sends me in that direction although I must admit it is not my favourite trip to do. Post edited for clarity.

Dave
 

MarkWi72

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It's a shame that this 'arm' of the Metro doesn't extend to Walsall and Stourbridge. There'd be a call for this, especially as most of the areas served do not have current railway links. Presumably there'll be some heavy rail calibration for engineering? If the tunnel is used too (this could loop extra trams away from Dudley if used).

The East Brum line to the NEC/Airport/HS2 station at Arden Cross, is also in the pipeline, but little has happened on that. We need many more lines. A Brum- Solihull - Knowle branch would be useful. Maybe with a Knowle- NEC/Arden Cross spur. Connectivity from Knowle, Dorridge, Shirley to the NEC is poor.
 

Dave W

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I was waiting for the Stourbridge-Brierley Hill idea to resurface - I'd regaled the idea in another thread and was sure it had been mentioned. I seem to recall there was also chatter about ploughing the Town branch into the town and running tram-trains (actually bigger PPMs) - I guess that could work...

They realigned the canal and did some pretty extensive earthworks on the embankment over the top of the Merry Hill - you can see the change of canal line on the excellent National Libraries of Scotland overlay map. They did a lot there - the special school and swimming baths went; I used to play kids football on the pitch next to the canal - all swept away with the building of the bypass.

All this means that extending to Stour would surely be a further "branch" (actually along the main line) - the way the town is laid out would make it very difficult to thread tracks down Moor Lane (and I fancy the batteries wouldn't enjoy the climb back up to the five ways in the middle of Brierley Hill) - would be an interesting use of Moor Lane yard though; presumably there'll be 200 houses on that at some point.

The "Dasher" wouldn't be worth it unless it connected to the Metro - presumably at Canal Street.

So with all these things in mind, you can see why it'd be attractive. But also not happening, surely?
 

Dave W

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No - definitely a speculative one (based off Dave H's post above) - I also think it'd become a branch if it ever happened but edwin_m already pointed out they might already have too many of them!

That said, obliterating half of Brierley Hill to lay some tram tracks might not be the worst thing that ever happened to it 8-) And if I could get a tram from Brum to Brettell Lane rather than two trains and a bus...
 

fgwrich

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No - definitely a speculative one (based off Dave H's post above) - I also think it'd become a branch if it ever happened but edwin_m already pointed out they might already have too many of them!

That said, obliterating half of Brierley Hill to lay some tram tracks might not be the worst thing that ever happened to it 8-) And if I could get a tram from Brum to Brettell Lane rather than two trains and a bus...

To be fair, having a branchline isn't a bad idea - isn't that how Metrolink operate the Eccles line now with a diversion via Media City? The Stourbridge town bit would be interesting though - do you run into Stourbridge Junction, or down to the town, or create a small triangle east of the station allowing a shuttle?

Are there any plans released yet for how the Metro will run into Brierley Hill? I've been trying hard to visualise the route but cant quiet yet!
 

Dave W

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There's a map here:


I'm able to get my head round the bit along the canal to Cottage Street. What I'm also struggling with is how it cuts across the Waterfront complex. There was some talk of using the old monorail alignment but that doesn't spit the line out in the right place for the alignment along the canal. If anyone knows I'd appreciate a view!

(the map does show how it'll work, to be fair, but the topography makes little sense to me - unless a bridge is being built across the Level Street roundabout. Regardless of what the works are, if they span a Christmas period it'll be carnage down Merry Hill!)
 

P Binnersley

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Originally Stourbridge Junction station was much nearer the junction for the Birmingham line with the connection for the Stourbridge town branch facing the opposite direction so running directly to town may be feasible. The formation
looks to still be in railway ownership.
(linked Old-Maps web site may be shutting down on 31-Oct-2021).
 

Dave W

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Try this one, if it does die. The access to the depot would be in the way but probably not insurmountable. I'd have thought Stour Jn would be a pretty important stop so would need to provide something before the curve, I reckon... but there's already a walking route from the depot to the platform round the back of the signalbox.

(I'm sorry in advance if you lose days of your life to the below link - I certainly have...)

 

fgwrich

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The full plans are at https://www.twainquiry.co.uk/uploads/1/0/3/0/103043522/app_inq_3_land_plans_revised_march_2019.pdf

The line will run along the east side of the Waterfront complex rather than along the canal. It then re-joins the canal and runs along the east side before crossing on a bridge to the Cottage Street car park.
At Level street the line will cross the roundabout "at grade".

Try this one, if it does die. The access to the depot would be in the way but probably not insurmountable. I'd have thought Stour Jn would be a pretty important stop so would need to provide something before the curve, I reckon... but there's already a walking route from the depot to the platform round the back of the signalbox.

(I'm sorry in advance if you lose days of your life to the below link - I certainly have...)


Thanks both - That certainly helps to visualise the planned route.

As for running past the depot, I wouldn't have thought it would be that much of an issue - the Edinburgh Tram runs around the back of Haymarket depot, and considering how much tighter tram curves can be, a triangular junction at the back of the depot looks pretty feasible.
 

Class172

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The East Brum line to the NEC/Airport/HS2 station at Arden Cross, is also in the pipeline, but little has happened on that.
I think that's reliant on the Eastside extension being completed first out to Digbeth, which in turn is linked to the HS2 development.
 

P Binnersley

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The East side extension to Digbeth is currently under construction.

Sprint (Bus Rapid Transit) is currently being built from Birmingham to the NEC and I've heard informally that this may be extended to Arden Cross in preference to a new Metro line.
 

Dave W

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The little rattler can do a full return (journey down, 2 minute turnaround, journey back) in 8 minutes, so you could feasibly add a second platform at Town (I'd remove the ticket office) and have a single line section. But we are straying into speculative ideas!

Ultimately stopping at Brierley Hill needs to prove the concept first!
 
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