Military rail card court fine? Advice

[jack2628]

Station started: Darlington

Station change: Birmingham New Street - Coventry.

Railcard held: H M Forces (valid)

Where and when purchased: Ticket purchased online prior to boarding

What happened in any encounter with railway staff: Asked for ticket and Railcard by one inspector, advised physical card left at base when realised but was able to show military ID advised ok. Second inspector further into journey asked and told same. Was told he wanted details but as he showed I'd again that all he needed to do was present the valid card on his next journey.

We need to know what outcome(s) you would consider satisfactory: Fine dismissed or reduced

My other half is in the military and on a subsequent journey from base to home forgot his Railcard after purchasing ticket. He didn't realise until asked to present to first inspector who after being shown military ID said it's ok. Second inspector later in journey asked and told same thing. He asked for details name address but advised so long as it was presented on his next journey it would be fine. No further information given. Roll on three months no prior letters or warning he has returned to a court date and fine of £700. I will attach court letter tomorrow once obtained

 

[30907]

Thank you for the clear details and welcome! Do please upload as much ofcthe letter as is relevant.

The usual In this case would be a letter asking for an explanation and giving the opportunity to evidence the railcard within x days.

I suspect said letter has gone astray, but it should still be possible to resolve this.

BTW I assume the date was a bit over 3 months ago?

 

[John R]

Roll on three months no prior letters or warning he has returned to a court date and fine of £700. I will attach court letter tomorrow once obtained

So to be clear,, by court date, you mean the court hearing has happened, he has been convicted and fined?

If he had no knowledge of the hearing then there is a process that he can go through, whereby he makes a Statutory Declaration to the fact that he didn't know about it. That will then mean that a new hearing will be held, and he will have an opportunity beforehand to contact the rail company, explain that he didn't get any communication, and provide evidence of the railcard. Rail companies policy is to allow one forgotten railcard each year, provided evidence is subsequently provided, so hopefully that should sort the issue.

However.... I think your post suggests that he also forgot it previously, but I don't think any details were taken, and if so, this should mean the occasion he was stopped was still a "first strike", if that makes sense?

 

[jack2628]

Thanks for the welcome. I will do that ASAP.

Yes no prior letter received, at least not this end, so no reason to of thought twice about it.

We believe train was 18th October 2024 and letter arrived 26th January 2025 (read 1st Feb 2025)


Many thanks for the quick response and any advice greatly appreciated.

So to be clear,, by court date, you mean the court hearing has happened, he has been convicted and fined?

If he had no knowledge of the hearing then there is a process that he can go through, whereby he makes a Statutory Declaration to the fact that he didn't know about it. That will then mean that a new hearing will be held, and he will have an opportunity beforehand to contact the rail company, explain that he didn't get any communication, and provide evidence of the railcard. Rail companies policy is to allow one forgotten railcard each year, provided evidence is subsequently provided, so hopefully that should sort the issue.

However.... I think your post suggests that he also forgot it previously, but I don't think any details were taken, and if so, this should mean the occasion he was stopped was still a "first strike", if that makes sense?

I will double check the details when I have the copy of the letter tomorrow.

I have read this In a prior post, much appreciated for that information.

Nope not forgot previously just in the same train they checked twice as it's a long journey different inspectors.

 

[AlterEgo]

If your partner is serving in HM Forces they must tell their chain of command about the conviction *without delay*, before attending to any other matters relating to it. They have been convicted of an offence and have a criminal record at present.

 

[jack2628]

Without re reading the letter i will post tomorrow I believe it hasn't gone through the courts yet. They are at present forewarning of the date so no record. They also have informed them of the letter and they didn't want to know. Said there's nothing they can do their end.

 

[philthetube]

Can you specify who they is please.

 

[John R]

Can you specify who they is please.

Agree, there are four “they”s in post #6, and it’s very confusing for readers.

 

[SussexMan]

We believe train was 18th October 2024

If your partner is serving in HM Forces they must tell their chain of command about the conviction *without delay*

With an incident date of 18th October 2024 (if correct), I would be surprised if it had gone all the way through to a conviction yet.

 

[tixy]

Please, when you can, attach the court letter. Be sure to redact your personal details.
We need to see how far down the court process you are (summons, further steps etc..) I would hold off telling your chain of command for now as you need to know for sure if you are at the pre or post conviction stage. I and the other members can advise further but I would not delay in action.

 

[Ducatist4]

You need to speak to your chain of command as well. It'll be very bad for you if they find out about this from the local paper.

 

[tixy]

You need to speak to your chain of command as well. It'll be very bad for you if they find out about this from the local paper.

Let’s see what we are dealing with 1st. It depends on where he is as as to who at his unit he needs to speak to

 

[island]

With an incident date of 18th October 2024 (if correct), I would be surprised if it had gone all the way through to a conviction yet.

I wouldn't.

 

[AlterEgo]

We do need to see the paperwork, because a "court fine of £700" sounds very much in the ballpark of having been convicted, been fined, and been charged the costs and the surcharge. Hopefully @jack2628 can provide this soon.

 

[Haywain]

Station started: Darlington

Station change: Birmingham New Street - Coventry.

Was the journey Darlington to Coventry, or was Coventry a change point to get somewhere else? It is immportant to know the full journey as this will help us to understand the ticket price that may be being sought.

What happened in any encounter with railway staff: Asked for ticket and Railcard by one inspector, advised physical card left at base when realised but was able to show military ID advised ok. Second inspector further into journey asked and told same. Was told he wanted details but as he showed I'd again that all he needed to do was present the valid card on his next journey.

Were details taken?

on a subsequent journey from base to home forgot his Railcard after purchasing ticket. He didn't realise until asked to present to first inspector who after being shown military ID said it's ok. Second inspector later in journey asked and told same thing. He asked for details name address but advised so long as it was presented on his next journey it would be fine.

Where in the journey did this happen?

all he needed to do was present the valid card on his next journey.

I'm wondering if this was a misunderstanding.

advised so long as it was presented on his next journey it would be fine.

Again, this looks like a misunderstanding of what was actually said.

Roll on three months no prior letters or warning he has returned to a court date and fine of £700. I will attach court letter tomorrow once obtained

It is essential that you post up a copy of this letter, as your account is not clear enough for us to understand what stage the case has reached. Being given a court date and a fine are contradicting each other as a fine, in the legal sense, cannot be given before the case has been heard in a court.

 

[jack2628]

Hi all sorry for the delay letter obtained and attached hopefully this shed light on where we are at. This is the only correspondence we've had in relation to it.

 

[tixy]

Thanks for that.
As this communication is the first you have heard of this, I would suggest visiting a solicitor and completing something called a Statutory Declaration. It will cost you £5 as it needs notarising. Once signed and stamped, you will need to send it to Nottingham Magistrates Court.

This effectively rewinds the clock to the pre-trial stage and allows you to communicate with the train company. Other members can help here with what happens between the railway prosecutors after, but the railway will write to you. You can speed things up by emailing the railway, using the court reference number. (I think)

Given your military circumstances, I would suggest where possible, paying the fine to prevent any bailiff attending your unit. If successful at getting the case dropped, the court will refund you.

If you are unable to pay, you can email the fines officer ([email protected]) that you have submitted a statutory declaration and ask to hold off any further action.

In relation to telling your unit, I would suggest letting your Admin Officer know of the conviction know, along with your intentions. Your welfare officer at the hub may be able to help too.

 

[Haywain]

Hi all sorry for the delay letter obtained and attached hopefully this shed light on where we are at. This is the only correspondence we've had in relation to it.

This makes it clear that your other half has been convicted of a criminal offence, and the amount stated is due to be paid to the courts.

Now, this is important, is this definitely the first thing they have heard of this? Normally, the train company would send a letter warning of the prospect of court action and then there would be a summons or single justice procedure notice ahead of the court case.

And, further to the comments in the post above, phone the court and ask them who brought the prosecution as you can't try and deal with the train company until you know which company it is.

 

[Gloster]

Make the Statutory Declaration without delay. You have only 21 days from learning of the conviction to do so for it to be valid.

 

[tixy]

Now, this is important, is this definitely the first thing they have heard of this? Normally, the train company would send a letter warning of the prospect of court action and then there would be a summons or single justice procedure notice ahead of the court case.

And, further to the comments in the post above, phone the court and ask them who brought the prosecution as you can't try and deal with the train company until you know which company it is.

Agreed. I wonder, have you recently come off a unit move?

 

[island]

Just to observe the compensation amount is an anytime return fare. That should be requested to be reduced to a single fare when going through the process.

 

[Haywain]

Just to observe the compensation amount is an anytime return fare. That should be requested to be reduced to a single fare when going through the process.

If there has been no previous correspondence received, and it's the first time, it may be possible to resolve the issue on production of the railcard.

 

[Hadders]

A few more bits in addition to what has already been said:

• The Statutory Declaration must be made by your husband. As far as I know you cannot do it for him (perhao-ps @martinchapman8 can confirm). This needs to be completed without delay - it cannot wait.
• Once the Stat Dec has been submitted a new trial date will be arranged by the court. What your husband must do in the meantime is contact the train company, tell then what has happened and ask if they will consider an out of court settlement in return for dropping the court case.
• The court paperwork doesn't say who the train company is. This information is needed urgently so you know which one to contact. Train company prosecutions departments are not the easiest to get hold of so this is anither thing that needs to be done without delay. My suspicion is you're dealying with CrossCountry, but depending on where your husnad was stopped it could also be Avanti or West Midlands Trains
• Normally, in the case of a forgotten railcard, you are allowed to send a copy of it to the train company and they will drop proceedings. This concession can normally only be used once a year. I'm sure the train company will have written to your husband giving him the opportunity to do this but that letter seemingly went missing. If the train company is willing to re-open the case then sending them a copy of the railcard (assuming it was valid on the date of travel) should put an end to the matter. They might argue that they should be paid an admin fee

Unfortunately, there's a large amount of leg-work involved when something like this happens. Ultimately, it's probably sortable but not without a great deal of effort.

 

[tixy]

@Hadders is correct. It has to be done by the person the fine is addressed to.

You can download the form here

Statutory declaration of ignorance of proceedings

Use this form to make a declaration of ignorance of proceedings

www.gov.uk

Make sure your address is up to date and look out for any correspondence.

Don’t lodge it at court. It may be attractive, being free, but the court usually expects a plea on the day. You need use a solicitor to buy time for the railway to engage and settle out of court as advised on other posts.


Court contact details are below

Nottingham Magistrates' Court - Find a Court or Tribunal - GOV.UK

Nottingham Magistrates' Court - Find contact details, opening times, how to get to here, types of cases managed, disabled access to the building

www.find-court-tribunal.service.gov.uk

As previously mentioned, you need to contact the fines officer If you do not intend to pay the fine, as to avoid a warrant being issued. The courts don’t always talk to each other and I’ve seen many instances where a warrant has been issued to find out a stat dec has been lodged already.

 

[RPI]

It looks like the person was only convicted of a Byelaw offence, so whilst all of the advice above is very good advice, and should be followed, the Byelaw offence generally won't show up on a DBS check.