Military Railways

[tiptoptaff]

Hello,

Mods move if this is in the wrong place.

Something as an enthusiast and modeller that sparks my interest is military rial - movements of tnks and equipment by train on warwells, and the use of military rail systems.

With the Army having disbanded completely its rail operation, I was wondering what military railways are left in the UK, and who operates them now?

There is still an amount of military freight moving around that must go somewhere and be dealt with somehow, if anyone can shed any light it would be much obliged!

Thanks,
TTT

 

[Swanny200]

I'm in Wiltshire and as far as I'm aware round here a lot of the heavy stuff gets taken away on low loaders now but the last time I was up there the ludgershall branch seemed to be still in situ, whether it is still used is another question.

 

[BestWestern]

Presumably most of it goes into the same various MOD sites which are also used for storage of excess rolling stock?

 

[Ash Bridge]

Is MOD Ashchurch still in use?

 

[heart-of-wessex]

I'm in Wiltshire and as far as I'm aware round here a lot of the heavy stuff gets taken away on low loaders now but the last time I was up there the ludgershall branch seemed to be still in situ, whether it is still used is another question.

Same here, seen a few MOD convoys on low loaders through Trowbridge a few times. The lugershall MOD path is (or was) in the system but hasn't ran for a few years now IIRC.

 

[swt_passenger]

Is a branch into an operational MOD depot, such as DM Kineton, or SMC Marchwood considered a 'military railway' - or does the definition require actual uniformed members of the Army to be operating it?

If a military function is 'civilianised' and then subcontracted, say to GBRf or DB Cargo, is it still considered 'military' in the context of the original question?

I expect you don't see so many fighting vehicles on rail because successive generations of replacement vehicle have just got too big (wide) for our loading gauge. Even personnel carriers and the like are presumably too wide if fitted with full protection against IEDs and such - they tend to fit outboard frameworks and barriers against stuff being chucked at the vehicle...

 

[GlosRail]

Yes, and the rail connection is still there, but I'm not sure if a train has run there in the last couple of years.

Is MOD Ashchurch still in use?

 

[Kneedown]

As a young Secondman in the 80's one of our regular trip jobs was bringing various tanks and armoured vehicles out of Eggington MOD depot.
A tremendous sense of power overcomes you whilst hauling a train load of Scorpion tanks!

 

[Iskra]

Hello,

Mods move if this is in the wrong place.

Something as an enthusiast and modeller that sparks my interest is military rial - movements of tnks and equipment by train on warwells, and the use of military rail systems.

With the Army having disbanded completely its rail operation, I was wondering what military railways are left in the UK, and who operates them now?

There is still an amount of military freight moving around that must go somewhere and be dealt with somehow, if anyone can shed any light it would be much obliged!

Thanks,
TTT

I was under the impression that there is still an Army Reserve detachment with responsibility for all things railway related?

 

[Cowley]

As a young Secondman in the 80's one of our regular trip jobs was bringing various tanks and armoured vehicles out of Eggington MOD depot.
A tremendous sense of power overcomes you whilst hauling a train load of Scorpion tanks!

Oh yes. If looped by a grumpy signalman whilst hoping to make last orders...
Did they leave you the keys?
(Actually do tanks even have keys?)

 

[tiptoptaff]

I was under the impression that there is still an Army Reserve detachment with responsibility for all things railway related?

As was I. HQ RLC said different when I made a TA enquiry

 

[Iskra]

As was I. HQ RLC said different when I made a TA enquiry

Thanks. Further research states the unit disbanded in 2014. I suppose railway knowledge can be provided more easily through contractors if needs be, without the ongoing costs.

 

[FGW_DID]

As a young Secondman in the 80's one of our regular trip jobs was bringing various tanks and armoured vehicles out of Eggington MOD depot.
A tremendous sense of power overcomes you whilst hauling a train load of Scorpion tanks!

Technically speaking, the Scorpion isn’t a tank, it’s a member of the CVR(T) family. = Combat Vehicle Reconnaissance (Tracked).
Other family members were the Striker, Spartan, Samaritan, Sultan, Samson & Scimitar.

 

[Kite159]

I'm in Wiltshire and as far as I'm aware round here a lot of the heavy stuff gets taken away on low loaders now but the last time I was up there the ludgershall branch seemed to be still in situ, whether it is still used is another question.

Ludgershall Camp closed last year, the track leading into the camp itself no longer exists (it is being turned into housing). The Ludgershall medical depot & depot area isn't used that much anymore

 

[furnessvale]

Thanks. Further research states the unit disbanded in 2014. I suppose railway knowledge can be provided more easily through contractors if needs be, without the ongoing costs.

Until, of course, there is a war when the contractors will be heading the other way as fast as their legs will carry them (as opposed to enlisted men who can be ordered to the front line).

 

[Far north 37]

I think trains still run to the glen douglas mod depot on the west highland line.

 

[nottsnurse]

Until, of course, there is a war when the contractors will be heading the other way as fast as their legs will carry them (as opposed to enlisted men who can be ordered to the front line).

Not necessarily. I've worked alongside plenty of contractors in some pretty undesirable 'holiday destinations' around the world. Whilst there is a cost implication of deploying contractors to such areas this is often offset by them being more current/experienced at what they're being asked to do than an equivalent service person who may have little in the way of regular experience.

There are also a large number of contractors who are FTRS or VeRR.

 

[Kneedown]

Technically speaking, the Scorpion isn’t a tank, it’s a member of the CVR(T) family. = Combat Vehicle Reconnaissance (Tracked).
Other family members were the Striker, Spartan, Samaritan, Sultan, Samson & Scimitar.

Cheers for that. I always referred to them as tanks after inheriting my brothers "Action Man" one as a nipper!
I'm not even 100% if they were Scorpions we took out of Eggington. Whatever they were they had effective looking weapons on the turrets!

 

[FenMan]

I think trains still run to the glen douglas mod depot on the west highland line.

I'm wondering if the, not mapped on OS maps or anywhere else, spur from the West Highland Line is still used.

 

[Far north 37]

I'm wondering if the, not mapped on OS maps or anywhere else, spur from the West Highland Line is still used.[/

I would imagine so trains were running there just a few months ago, cant see elsewhere they would unload.
Seems gbrf are running these services now as opposed to db cargo who were running these up and till recently.

 

[tiptoptaff]

Thanks all, I was more thinking of the internal systems they used to have at places like Bicester, which were run my the Army's Railway Squadron. I always thought they retained it, even at Reserve level, for deployments where railway capability could be required. The system at Bicester still exists so is obviously run by someone, but not the Army.

 

[FGW_DID]

Thanks all, I was more thinking of the internal systems they used to have at places like Bicester, which were run my the Army's Railway Squadron. I always thought they retained it, even at Reserve level, for deployments where railway capability could be required. The system at Bicester still exists so is obviously run by someone, but not the Army.

I think the only part of the Bicester system that is in use is the exchange sidings, the rest of the system is OOU and has been for some time.

 

[Carlisle]

Ludgershall Camp closed last year, the track leading into the camp itself no longer exists (it is being turned into housing). The Ludgershall medical depot & depot area isn't used that much anymore

Interesting, I wonder why Network Rail bothered spending money equipping such lines with the likes of GSMR when they clearly had such a short term and uncertain future .

 

[mpthomson]

I was under the impression that there is still an Army Reserve detachment with responsibility for all things railway related?

There's a legacy unit still around. The old Ambulance Train Regiment still exists as a nationally recruited Medical Regiment, called 335 Medical Evacuation Regiment, though the emphasis is now on transport via road, air and sea rather than rail.

 

[Highlandspring]

I'm wondering if the, not mapped on OS maps or anywhere else, spur from the West Highland Line is still used.

Glen Douglas is shown on Ordnance Survey maps - https://binged.it/2zjnJ4w

Don't mix it up with the Faslane branch into the naval dockyard, which closed in 1983.

 

[alexl92]

I’m fairly sure that the Wensleydale line to Redmire is still used to take MOD trains to Catterick Garrison occasionally. That certainly was one of the reasons the line was never fully closed.

From a modelling perspective that line can be a dream too - one of the major modelling magazine recently released a ‘Modelling Ideas’ guide with all sorts of ideas for layouts and it includes a feature on that line.

 

[swt_passenger]

The system at Bicester still exists so is obviously run by someone, but not the Army.

That raises the same question as my earlier reply. If MoD (A) employed civilian specialists are doing the internal operations is that not still a military operation?

 

[tiptoptaff]

That raises the same question as my earlier reply. If MoD (A) employed civilian specialists are doing the internal operations is that not still a military operation?

It's a good question - Babcock are contracted to do a lot of RAF maintenance on training aircraft, but as it's military pilots flying them it's classed as civilian maintained as opposed to operated. I guess if there is no Army involvement, it's a civilian operated system. It seems that the Army has no railway capability in any form these days

 

[DarloRich]

I know several people who work on the railway and are reservists. They are retained precisely because of their logistics and specialist railway knowledge.

 

[Iskra]

It's a good question - Babcock are contracted to do a lot of RAF maintenance on training aircraft, but as it's military pilots flying them it's classed as civilian maintained as opposed to operated. I guess if there is no Army involvement, it's a civilian operated system. It seems that the Army has no railway capability in any form these days

We are all (understandably) very railway-centric on here, but we need to take a step back away from the nostalgic aspects of it and think 'why does the military need a railway capability'. When was a railway last important to the outcome of a conflict? If you think about it, in the world of palletisation/containerisation, helicopters, HGV's and heavy lift transport aircraft that can use short, rough runways, railways are just a liability in a hostile environment. They take a lot of defending and are easily interfered with. If someone blows up one railway bridge on a line, it could be out of use for weeks. If someone blows a road-bridge it can be fixed, bypassed or replaced with a temporary solution within hours. Locomotives and rolling stock costs millions, one lorry is relatively expendable.