Minimum connection times - National Rail Conditions of Carriage 25(d)

[jayah]

Yes, there will be many stations where the planned platforming plan is too unreliable to sensibly advertise bespoke platform X to platform Y connection times.

But conversely there may be stations (not necessarily many) where both the platforming plan *and* the arrival time of trains is sufficiently consistent that these could be advertised.

My point is that some clever coding (potentially *very* clever) could pick out these particular combinations of trains/platforms that are sufficiently reliable to advertise. A basic algorithm:
-Pick inward train "A"
-For any outward train "B" that satisfies the MCT, advertise the connection
-For any outward train "B" that offers a connection time of at least 1 minute but less than the MCT:
-----Is a connection physically possible between the two trains in their planned platforms given distance needed to travel? If no, reject
-----If Yes, Does Train A arrive sufficiently far ahead of Train B on consistently many occasions (let's say 95% of historic occurences) that this sub-standard connection can physically expected to be made most of the time. If yes, go to next step
-----Do train A and Train B arrive on platforms whose minimum physical connection time is equal to or less than that for their ordinarily booked platforms for at least 95% of historic occurences? If so, advertise the connection.

The above ligic works assuming that the timetabled platforming plan is in itself rules-compliant.

I suspect most of the above is already captured for example where TOC-TOC is less than the rest of the station or the station is <5min.

If people are changing in great numbers it will usually be a junction and if it is a junction, then opportunities usually abound for short notice replatforming.

 

[kieron]

Thanks. I did not know that. That then best the western, why does timetable 52 and 148 need to be 10 minutes and the others only 5?

I don't know. The previous timetable listed it as 10 minutes everywhere, and had a separate table which indicated that someone changing from a Southern service to another Southern one at Gatwick only needed to allow 5 minutes.

The current timetable doesn't include this table, and only shows Gatwick as being served by "GW" and "TL" trains.

You have partly answered that yourself, we manage the station, the connection time is agreed by the TOCs themselves as per any other station.

Thanks. I think I got a bit confused with the singling out of Virgin-managed stations earlier in the thread.

 

[RichardN]

Perhaps someone could explain why Surbiton needs 6 minutes but East Croydon only 5.

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Worst case at Surbiton, there can be quite a wait to get up off the platform when, say, the 18:14 and 18:18 arrive at the same time on platforms 3 and 4. Of course there should be no reason that anybody would want to change from p3/4 to p1/2 (the reverse is not true)

Mind you, somebody on the rear coach of 10 into the bay at Woking who needs to get to platform 5 will need to hurry to do it in 5 minutes.

 

[mike57]

Where short connections are possible it's unlikely that missing a connection is going to result in a delay long enough to trigger compensation. In practical terms passengers are of course free, unless otherwise restricted, to make whatever connection they want. Just don't run down stairs because when that goes wrong it's horrible.

Seamer is a good case, travelling fromYork/Malton and changing to the Bridlington/Hull line would be 5 mins, as there is nothing in the NR timetable, and its a simple cross platform change on an island platform. Missing the Bridlington/Hull train can result in an 1h30m + wait, 16:21 arrival from York 16:30 departure Bridlinton/Hull and intermediate stops often fails due to late running incoming train. Out of 10 occasions last year 4 failed, giving a nice contribution to our holiday travel fund with delay repay vouchers (prior the change to cash) Now usually get the earlier one and get the wife to meet me at Seamer

 

[infobleep]

Worst case at Surbiton, there can be quite a wait to get up off the platform when, say, the 18:14 and 18:18 arrive at the same time on platforms 3 and 4. Of course there should be no reason that anybody would want to change from p3/4 to p1/2 (the reverse is not true)

Mind you, somebody on the rear coach of 10 into the bay at Woking who needs to get to platform 5 will need to hurry to do it in 5 minutes.

But what about someone who needs to change from a London Victoria train on platform 1 to a train to East Grinstead or Uckfield on platform 5 or 6. I don't know which platforms are used for these services. Now imagine at the same time trains have come in from London Bridge and Victoira, all heading south and some slow trains. Now trying doing it within 5 minutes when your not sure which platform to go to and which stairs to use and even where they are. Not to mention if you wish to use a lift!

Surely that would be worse than Surbiton, yet they only allow 5 minutes.

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--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Interestingly I was travelling from Clapham Junction to Rules Hill and Knight and had to get a bus from Stretham Common. They allowed me just 4 minutes in the timetable on National Rail Enquiries to do this and the bus is round the corner. Needless to say I missed it as I wasn't sure where to go and I was at the front end of the train.

I got one another 15 minutes later instead, which one could argue would have been the better connection to offer, if we are so concerned about people being able to make their connecting in good time.

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[RichardN]

Surely that would be worse than Surbiton, yet they only allow 5 minutes.

As somebody who currently uses Surbiton and used to regularly change at East Croydon, I think East Croydon is potentially faster to change at, simply because of the large number of passengers leaving down trains in the Evening peak at Surbiton that might delay a change.