as can I. Without checking the specific fare, a West Yorkshire Train DayRover might be worthwhile? It will be more expensive, but you won't have any issues with it. (I'm assuming you're travelling off peak?)Crossover:2150306 said:Can't comment on the validity, but I can certainly see such ticket use getting some interested glances from a guard
Just looked and the Mirfield-Leeds is 70p cheaper than SOW-LDS so I'd expect a strange glance tbh.185143:2150339 said:as can I. Without checking the specific fare, a West Yorkshire Train DayRover might be worthwhile? It will be more expensive, but you won't have any issues with it. (I'm assuming you're travelling off peak?)Crossover:2150306 said:Can't comment on the validity, but I can certainly see such ticket use getting some interested glances from a guard
There is no station between Sowerby Bridge and the junction, so there is no doubling back.Can someone please advise whether Mirfield to Leeds via Sowerby Bridge is a permitted route? The journey planners say yes, but i am left wondering whether there is a doubling back element in the Sowerby Bridge area so wanted to check.
Can't comment on the validity, but I can certainly see such ticket use getting some interested glances from a guard
Mirfield is in WY Metro zone 3.
Sowerby Bridge is in zone 5.
I am extremely unsure what the legal position would be regarding use of a Z1-3 Metrocard to travel from Mirfield to Leeds via Sowerby Bridge.
The same issue may occur with Brighouse (zone 4) to Leeds, also possible via Sowerby Bridge (in zone 5).
The metrocard terms and conditions are somewhat vague but state a ticket must be valid for "the area within which travel is intended".
Comments gratefully received...!
I am extremely sure! It's not valid.Mirfield is in WY Metro zone 3.
Sowerby Bridge is in zone 5.
I am extremely unsure what the legal position would be regarding use of a Z1-3 Metrocard to travel from Mirfield to Leeds via Sowerby Bridge.
Although of course it shouldn't be be a matter of being 'lucky'.Ticket validity should never be about trying to get away with something questionable.It's about, if it's a permitted route, then the ticket is valid.Can't comment on the validity, but I can certainly see such ticket use getting some interested glances from a guard
Ticket checks in the area are not quite as common as perhaps they could be, nor are they particularly thorough. You'd be unlucky if you got questioned on it and very unlucky if it were rejected.
Although of course it shouldn't be be a matter of being 'lucky'.Ticket validity should never be about trying to get away with something questionable.It's about, if it's a permitted route, then the ticket is valid.
And it is valid, because that is a permitted route.
But I'm not sure how you can expect all conductors in the area to know that - how many have even heard of the Routeing Guide?
To know every sspect of the Routing Guide inside out? No. But to be aware of the Routing Guide and of the need to consult it when issues arise, together with being reasonably aware of permitted routes for the services tthey most regularly work on? Yes, absolutely. It is a core part of the knowledge needed for the job.
To know every aspect of the Routing Guide inside out? No. But to be aware of the Routing Guide and of the need to consult it when issues arise, together with being reasonably aware of permitted routes for the services they most regularly work on? Yes, absolutely. It is a core part of the knowledge needed for the job.
To know every aspect of the Routing Guide inside out? No. But to be aware of the Routing Guide and of the need to consult it when issues arise, together with being reasonably aware of permitted routes for the services they most regularly work on? Yes, absolutely. It is a core part of the knowledge needed for the job.
Looks fine to me on map LY. http://data.atoc.org/routeing-maps
To double back you would need to travel though the same station twice, so changing direction at Sowerby Bridge or Bradford interchange (via Shipley is also OK) doesn't count.
Can someone please advise whether Mirfield to Leeds via Sowerby Bridge is a permitted route? The journey planners say yes, but i am left wondering whether there is a doubling back element in the Sowerby Bridge area so wanted to check.
Mirfield is a member of Huddersfield Group.
Leeds is obviously a member of Leeds Group.
Maps for routes between Huddersfield Group and Leeds Group are LY and YT, of which YT is not helpful here.
The red line on map LY is from Huddersfield (Group) to Halifax (Group).
Do I understand this correctly - it's Sowerby Bridge's membership of Halifax Routeing Group which permits us to change there?
And, for instance, Mytholmroyd (Routeing points Accrington, Halifax Group, Manchester Group) would similarly be permitted EXCEPT that we would be doubling-back through Sowerby Bridge?
But you can't go from Mirfield to Huddersfield as you are doubling back via Deighton, and you can't double back within a group if the origin or destination is part of that group.
Indeed, that's been my understanding. The map shows a single point for 'HUDDERSFIELD GROUP' and shows one line to 'HALIFAX GROUP'But the map is showing routes between groups, not individual stations. This must be the case as otherwise obviously-valid routes like Bradford to Leeds via the Forster Square/Shipley route wouldn't be permitted.
We can therefore travel from our Huddersfield Group member (Mirfield) to our Halifax Group member (Sowerby Bridge) and thence to Leeds.
.
Incidentally, the journey planners do not say yes.
They say that "more than one ticket is required" which indicates that the through ticket is not valid, so no, it is DEFINITELY not valid.
See attached.
Well, I've bought this. Armed with my printout from the booking site, any bets how long before it's withdrawn?
Wow that's quite pricey compared with £1551 for unlimited train and bus travel in the county.
LY shows the route from Mirfield to Huddersfield
The way I believe booking engines check routes is by taking the schedule showing all calling and passing points, working through it checking for doublebacks and filtering out any stations that are not routeing points (as well as removing repeated stations within the same routeing group if covered by the group stations rule). This results in a list of routeing points/groups, and the check as to whether they can be traced on a map combination is quite simple and independent of the intermediate stations passed through.The question is, does the single line between them on the map denote all these possible routes, or does it show only one of them? I believe it's the former.
- Mirfield - Brighouse - Halifax
- Deighton - Brighouse - Halifax
- Deighton - Brighouse - Sowerby Bridge
- Mirfield - Brighouse - Sowerby Bridge
Correct; see above. Although slightly complicated by the fact that the electronic routeing guide used by booking engines has some intermediate non-routeing point stations on the maps - now shown on the maps as white circles with a peach-coloured outline. But that doesn't apply to the Mirfield to Leeds via Sowerby Bridge journey.My understanding is that to travel between two routing points joined by a line on a map you may travel via any stations that are not themselves routing points. Provided you don't pass through any station twice.
That's because the fastest connection from Sowerby Bridge to Leeds is generally on a train that doubles back through Brighouse and Mirfield again. You need to specify a longer wait time to get a train that goes via Halifax and Bradford; see attached.Incidentally, the journey planners do not say yes.
They say that "more than one ticket is required" which indicates that the through ticket is not valid, so no, it is DEFINITELY not valid.
That's because the fastest connection from Sowerby Bridge to Leeds is generally on a train that doubles back through Brighouse and Mirfield again. You need to specify a longer wait time to get a train that goes via Halifax and Bradford; see attached.
Incidentally, the journey planners do not say yes.
They say that "more than one ticket is required" which indicates that the through ticket is not valid, so no, it is DEFINITELY not valid.