Missing but wished-for features on trains

[Joe Paxton]

Now try looking at the cost of the water bottles... which incidentally weigh 25kg each and think how many you'd need to change over the course of a journey...

A more realistic request would be for there to be drinking water taps at busy stations so passengers can fill up their own bottles.

 

[AndrewE]

Seeing as this is a "fantasy" thread: For an innovation (rather than reintroducing something from the past) I would go for a nice bar (or even a crummy one) on long distance trains which offered a real ale or two at moderate prices. It could be done, "Bright" beer is real ale without a yeast sediment in the barrel. Get Wetherspoons to run them?

 

[Howezy_21]

A more realistic request would be for there to be drinking water taps at busy stations so passengers can fill up their own bottles.

For smaller local stations that could potentially be a viable option, but in the bigger stations that have an abundance of different shops I think they'd rather you spend your money in the shops. Which keeps the shop company happy keeping them at the station, which means renting money from the shop keeps coming into the station

 

[Joe Paxton]

When did trains ever have saunas?

When did planes ever have showers?

 

[yorksrob]

Seeing as this is a "fantasy" thread: For an innovation (rather than reintroducing something from the past) I would go for a nice bar (or even a crummy one) on long distance trains which offered a real ale or two at moderate prices. It could be done, "Bright" beer is real ale without a yeast sediment in the barrel. Get Wetherspoons to run them?

Yes, but we could do better than Weatherspoon's (no offence). There are some good station pubs out there so perhaps they could branch out ?

Of course, OS Bullied tried his tavern cars on the Southern Railway, but he didn't put any windows in, so they weren't as popular as they might have been.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Real ale on trains is probably easier served from bottles. Some TOCs do, don't they?

I would like to see on long distance trains instead of the silly "shop" a standing buffet area like Eurostar and some DB ICEs to consume said beverages.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Yeah, A380s broke new ground with showers, but they are much bigger than trains, plus any other plane before had been much smaller. You can't just build a bigger train in Britain, thin loading gauge, low infrastructure meaning no allowance for double decker trains.

Although...now you think about it, maybe you could fit a very small sauna in where they have loos. Some long distance trains have two per carriage, they wouldn't miss one...

 

[fowler9]

Yeah, A380s broke new ground with showers, but they are much bigger than trains, plus any other plane before had been much smaller. You can't just build a bigger train in Britain, thin loading gauge, low infrastructure meaning no allowance for double decker trains.

Although...now you think about it, maybe you could fit a very small sauna in where they have loos. Some long distance trains have two per carriage, they wouldn't miss one...

Planes aren't that much bigger than trains (In fact I doubt most planes are bigger volume wise at all). I Virgin charged an absolute fortune from Liverpool to London in First then they could rip out a few seats and have showers if there was a market for it.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Planes aren't that much bigger than trains (In fact I doubt most planes are bigger volume wise at all). I Virgin charged an absolute fortune from Liverpool to London in First then they could rip out a few seats and have showers if there was a market for it.

An issue with showers on any mode of transport is the weight and volume of water that must be carried (shipping less-so, but then you have the issue of desalination and/or purification). I'm surprised the new Caledonian Sleeper stock has showers for this reason.

 

[AnonymousUser1]

Now try looking at the cost of the water bottles... which incidentally weigh 25kg each and think how many you'd need to change over the course of a journey...

increasingly the case that workplaces will spend the money on plumbed in coolers as to remove all the hassle of dealing wit hthe 'super bottles'

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Right, time for a grilling.

First class where Standard class passengers cannot enter those carriages and they are never declassified, if a train is heaving and standard is all stood yet want to seat, pay more!, three course meal waiter service on all 2 hours plus Intercity journeys, at least weekdays. Footrests? All inclusive packages like in holiday resorts? Refunds if hot meals aren't available? Child first class tickets should be more than adult first class tickets, though vice versa for standard. Disabled people can't do with just one or two spaces per train either, can they? Stairs leading up to a second level. Glass panoramic cars on St Ives Bay Line, Cumbrian Coast Line, etc. It should be the law for all first class seats on any train to be nicer than standard and not just to guarantee a seat. First class day rovers, not just standard ones! Agh I want those so much!!!!! Heated seats. Compensation if hot food is advertised as available and then it turns out due to a problem it isn't!!!! Better policing of customer behaviour, passengers shouting at staff for signal problems is not acceptable. Vice versa too, no lazy staff. Better voice over than flipping Anne and Rodger, and your beloved Phil isn't amazing either...(Celia all the way, but I appreciate that isn't everyone's feelings). PISs at every stations. Automated announcements on board every train and station. Get rid of every single HST or 31x before 2020, no train should have a life over 25-30 if Britain wants a decent railway. Staff need to get rid of buskers in stations, bring in a fine! Same for beggars. Ban dogs from train seats!!!!!! Oh and they shouldn't be allowed under table seats, how would you feel if you were a dog phobic and paid £200 for a ticket only to find a dog under your legs? Staff member permanently based in quiet zone to make sure people obey. First class lounges should be available to everyone with FC tickets, not just over £10 or non-advance. Phew.

 

[superalbs]

how would you feel if you were a dog phobic

!?

What is a dog phobic?! I am extremely confused!!

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

!?

What is a dog phobic?! I am extremely confused!!

Ok, apologies for my very unusually bad grammar there, but it is pretty self explanatory, isn't it?

 

[185143]

Right, time for a grilling.

First class where Standard class passengers cannot enter those carriages and they are never declassified, if a train is heaving and standard is all stood yet want to seat, pay more!, three course meal waiter service on all 2 hours plus Intercity journeys, at least weekdays. Footrests? All inclusive packages like in holiday resorts? Refunds if hot meals aren't available? Child first class tickets should be more than adult first class tickets, though vice versa for standard. Disabled people can't do with just one or two spaces per train either, can they? Stairs leading up to a second level. Glass panoramic cars on St Ives Bay Line, Cumbrian Coast Line, etc. It should be the law for all first class seats on any train to be nicer than standard and not just to guarantee a seat. First class day rovers, not just standard ones! Agh I want those so much!!!!! Heated seats. Compensation if hot food is advertised as available and then it turns out due to a problem it isn't!!!! Better policing of customer behaviour, passengers shouting at staff for signal problems is not acceptable. Vice versa too, no lazy staff. Better voice over than flipping Anne and Rodger, and your beloved Phil isn't amazing either...(Celia all the way, but I appreciate that isn't everyone's feelings). **** at every stations. Automated announcements on board every train and station. Get rid of every single HST or 31x before 2020, no train should have a life over 25-30 if Britain wants a decent railway. Staff need to get rid of buskers in stations, bring in a fine! Same for beggars. Ban dogs from train seats!!!!!! Oh and they shouldn't be allowed under table seats, how would you feel if you were a dog phobic and paid £200 for a ticket only to find a dog under your legs? Staff member permanently based in quiet zone to make sure people obey. First class lounges should be available to everyone with FC tickets, not just over £10 or non-advance. Phew.

You asked for this. Suppose there had been massive disruption, and the last train of the day was full and standing-but First was nearly empty. Do you leave those people and put them in taxis or let them on the train? The Daily Fail would have a field day if those passengers were left behind-and rightly so!

Are you suggesting GTR Thameslink provide a 3 course meal on Bedford-Brighton? That's a (around 3 hour IIRC?) Journey, and is Intercity (using the strict definition of the word as literally 'between cities'

Footrests aren't really necessary-are they? I'll happily back down on that should the forum view be that they would be wanted however.

Child First Class tickets should be more than First Class tickets? What then would stop a child purchasing an adult ticket? Given children can travel on adult tickets...

I agree First Class rangers should be available (I'd question how many would be sold-but I don't see why it couldn't be offered!) Though presumably people could buy them and take the mick going up and down all day just to get free food.

Compensation IS available if hot food is unavailable under the Consumer Rights Act-though the TOCs only really take any notice of this when the passenger mentions it. Wonder why that might be!

I assume you'd rather go to Inverness on a rammed, slow, underpowered 170 than a refurbished SR spec HST?

I fully agree dogs should not be allowed on train seats!

Staff member permanently based in the quiet zone? Taking up the precious space that is available to Standard class passengers-what if the train is full to the point of leaving people behind? United Airlines found out what happens when the Media find out fare paying passengers are refused travel to allow staff to be there...

I agree that First Class lounges should be available to all First Class passengers-unless advances were to be sold at a lower price that specifically did not allow lounge access maybe? Though how long would it take some TOCs to abuse that... *XC*

 

[ooo]

Right, time for a grilling.

Child first class tickets should be more than adult first class tickets,.

You'd never sell any child tickets then

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

You asked for this. Suppose there had been massive disruption, and the last train of the day was full and standing-but First was nearly empty. Do you leave those people and put them in taxis or let them on the train? The Daily Fail would have a field day if those passengers were left behind-and rightly so!

Are you suggesting GTR Thameslink provide a 3 course meal on Bedford-Brighton? That's a (around 3 hour IIRC?) Journey, and is Intercity (using the strict definition of the word as literally 'between cities'

Footrests aren't really necessary-are they? I'll happily back down on that should the forum view be that they would be wanted however.

Child First Class tickets should be more than First Class tickets? What then would stop a child purchasing an adult ticket? Given children can travel on adult tickets...

I agree First Class rangers should be available (I'd question how many would be sold-but I don't see why it couldn't be offered!) Though presumably people could buy them and take the mick going up and down all day just to get free food.

Compensation IS available if hot food is unavailable under the Consumer Rights Act-though the TOCs only really take any notice of this when the passenger mentions it. Wonder why that might be!

I assume you'd rather go to Inverness on a rammed, slow, underpowered 170 than a refurbished SR spec HST?

I fully agree dogs should not be allowed on train seats!

Staff member permanently based in the quiet zone? Taking up the precious space that is available to Standard class passengers-what if the train is full to the point of leaving people behind? United Airlines found out what happens when the Media find out fare paying passengers are refused travel to allow staff to be there...

I agree that First Class lounges should be available to all First Class passengers-unless advances were to be sold at a lower price that specifically did not allow lounge access maybe? Though how long would it take some TOCs to abuse that... *XC*

Ooh yay, a nice, juicy debate. I mean ex-BR Intercity routes. 170s are not ever going to replace HSTs on ECML, they are only for the local SR service. Yes about kids allowed adult tickets, but not many people ever twig it might be better to get an adult ticket for kids. Ok, you may think footrests aent necessary but that's your opinion. Neither is a sauna (see above) or wooden carriages!

Staff do not have to sit down...or they could be based in the vestibule and patrol the carriage every now and then. OK then scrap that. Staff should just do regular checks.

Thanks for responding, I do enjoy a nice rail argument.

 

[Bletchleyite]

increasingly the case that workplaces will spend the money on plumbed in coolers as to remove all the hassle of dealing wit hthe 'super bottles'

And on t'railway they would no doubt end up on the floor care of vandals.

 

[Bletchleyite]

An issue with showers on any mode of transport is the weight and volume of water that must be carried (shipping less-so, but then you have the issue of desalination and/or purification). I'm surprised the new Caledonian Sleeper stock has showers for this reason.

The Canadian has showers, and the stock isn't (surprisingly) *that* much bigger than UK gauge. No restrictions on use either - unless the water pipes freeze!

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

The Canadian has showers, and the stock isn't (surprisingly) *that* much bigger than UK gauge. No restrictions on use either - unless the water pipes freeze!

Well as I said, you could replace a toilet with a shower or sauna.

 

[Kite159]

A train sauna... Isn't that a 158 with failed AC or a 376 on a hot day?

 

[Agent_Squash]

Child first class tickets should be more than adult first class tickets, though vice versa for standard.

As someone who often travels long distance (Cumbria-South Coast) on my own, I nearly always pay for the upgrade to First. It’s a more relaxing experience, and makes travelling solo less stressful as a child (just!). If this idea was ever implemented, I’d certainly reduce my travel on the railway, and I’m sure many others would do the same. And considering most passengers don’t even notice that younger persons already, it wouldn’t really make a difference.

 

[co-tr-paul]

Locos !!

 

[61653 HTAFC]

As someone who often travels long distance (Cumbria-South Coast) on my own, I nearly always pay for the upgrade to First. It’s a more relaxing experience, and makes travelling solo less stressful as a child (just!). If this idea was ever implemented, I’d certainly reduce my travel on the railway, and I’m sure many others would do the same. And considering most passengers don’t even notice that younger persons already, it wouldn’t really make a difference.

I quite like the idea of charging a premium for bringing screaming brats on board, unfortunately the railway can't be seen to be punishing the parents of these filthy creatures with the destructive power of a force-12 gale...
However I'd certainly like to see a premium charged for bringing on board (trains, but especially buses) one of the modern, heavy duty baby buggies that look like they were made from spare Armoured Personnel Carrier parts!

 

[Agent_Squash]

I quite like the idea of charging a premium for bringing screaming brats on board, unfortunately the railway can't be seen to be punishing the parents of these filthy creatures with the destructive power of a force-12 gale...
However I'd certainly like to see a premium charged for bringing on board (trains, but especially buses) one of the modern, heavy duty baby buggies that look like they were made from spare Armoured Personnel Carrier parts!

I’ll agree that younger children are certainly annoying - indeed, travelling back the other week the final part of my trip was ruined by the sound of screaming. But, that said, there is certainly an age (normally during the teenage years) where you wouldn’t even notice someone on a child ticket was there. A nice little earner for the railway, and likely to develop custom too.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

I’ll agree that younger children are certainly annoying - indeed, travelling back the other week the final part of my trip was ruined by the sound of screaming. But, that said, there is certainly an age (normally during the teenage years) where you wouldn’t even notice someone on a child ticket was there. A nice little earner for the railway, and likely to develop custom too.

Well I’m a hypocrite really, because I’m a first class teen traveler and rely on cheap first class tickets to get by

 

[sprinterguy]

170s are not ever going to replace HSTs on ECML, they are only for the local SR service.

Yes, but HSTs will be replacing 170s on "the local SR service". Though I would hardly consider the three and a half hour inter-city journey between Edinburgh/Glasgow and Inverness as "local". Especially when one of your other criteria otherwise specifies three course meals, no less, on inter-city journeys of two hours or more.

 

[D6975]

You'd never sell any child tickets then

I rather think that's the aim.
Keep the kids in standard.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

I rather think that's the aim.
Keep the kids in standard.

Except me, . Can't bear standard class.

 

[physics34]

Right, time for a grilling.

First class where Standard class passengers cannot enter those carriages and they are never declassified, if a train is heaving and standard is all stood yet want to seat, pay more!, three course meal waiter service on all 2 hours plus Intercity journeys, at least weekdays. Footrests? All inclusive packages like in holiday resorts? Refunds if hot meals aren't available? Child first class tickets should be more than adult first class tickets, though vice versa for standard. Disabled people can't do with just one or two spaces per train either, can they? Stairs leading up to a second level. Glass panoramic cars on St Ives Bay Line, Cumbrian Coast Line, etc. It should be the law for all first class seats on any train to be nicer than standard and not just to guarantee a seat. First class day rovers, not just standard ones! Agh I want those so much!!!!! Heated seats. Compensation if hot food is advertised as available and then it turns out due to a problem it isn't!!!! Better policing of customer behaviour, passengers shouting at staff for signal problems is not acceptable. Vice versa too, no lazy staff. Better voice over than flipping Anne and Rodger, and your beloved Phil isn't amazing either...(Celia all the way, but I appreciate that isn't everyone's feelings). **** at every stations. Automated announcements on board every train and station. Get rid of every single HST or 31x before 2020, no train should have a life over 25-30 if Britain wants a decent railway. Staff need to get rid of buskers in stations, bring in a fine! Same for beggars. Ban dogs from train seats!!!!!! Oh and they shouldn't be allowed under table seats, how would you feel if you were a dog phobic and paid £200 for a ticket only to find a dog under your legs? Staff member permanently based in quiet zone to make sure people obey. First class lounges should be available to everyone with FC tickets, not just over £10 or non-advance. Phew.

so much fantasy there...... Agree on the Dogs, Better policing of behaviour (basically need more staff around), more panoramic trains on scenic lines, first class rovers. Disagree with: More announcements, banning of buskers (beggers yes), getting rid of HSTs, 31x stock and your 25 year train shelf life.......if the train can be refurbished appropriately and its economical to maintain they should stay in service until either of these two become impossible.

 

[Bletchleyite]

First Class?

For me it should be increased legroom, one fewer seat across the train than Standard (so 2+2 if Std is 3+2, and 2+1 if Std is 2+2), some single airline seats, and it should cost 50-60% more than any given Standard ticket (Off Peaks included) and no more than that. Window alignment should be good.

Freebies? I don't care for them at all (though I suppose tea/coffee/water is cheap and easy to do). I'd rather have paid-for at seat service of the buffet menu on proper crockery/cutlery as DB do. If I want something I'll pay for it, if I don't I won't.

If that was the First Class "package" across the country, I would probably default to it and stop travelling Standard.

Notably, it basically *is* the package in Germany and Switzerland. And I often do travel 1st in those countries.