Missing last connection due to full train

[Starmill]

The reasons are almost entirely down to the much obviated need to commute to work, as well as the Government's and TOCs' messaging about the use of public transport. The latter of which is something that will have been decided at a relatively high level. Neither have anything to do with the level of customer service the industry (fails to) provide.

I don't agree with the proposition that total indifference to customer service isn't a driver of weak passenger confidence, or a suggestion that the current reasons why people are choosing not to travel isn't influenced significantly by that low confidence. Clearly there are further influences, especially prices that are too high and journeys the need for which is gone permanently, but I think it's still significant.

Indeed I think it may even go further. A lot of people don't know anything about the railway other than that it has a reputation for being a bit unfair on people. I think there are people who, for reasons they couldn't well articulate, aren't considering returning because they know in the back of their mind that if something does go wrong that's more of a problem now because of Covid-19 than it would have been previously, the train companies are more likely to adversely impact them by leaving them high and dry. People wanting to maintain social distancing of their own volition being forced to buy new tickets is one possible example of that sort of rough treatment.

Of course lots of train enthusiasts and staff will complain that it's unfair that train companies have a reputation for being a bit untrustworthy when it comes to 'doing the right thing', and point out myriad examples of where there was in fact basically adequate customer service. But they, of course, aren't the real market.

To put it another way, most people will take what they're told on social media or by staff at face value without further testing that. You do in almost all consumer transactions apart from the railway.

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

I don't agree with the proposition that total indifference to customer service isn't a driver of weak passenger confidence, or a suggestion that the current reasons why people are choosing not to travel isn't influenced significantly by that low confidence. Clearly there are further influences, especially prices that are too high and journeys the need for which is gone permanently, but I think it's still significant.

Indeed I think it may even go further. A lot of people don't know anything about the railway other than that it has a reputation for being a bit unfair on people. I think there are people who, for reasons they couldn't well articulate, aren't considering returning because they know in the back of their mind that if something does go wrong that's more of a problem now because of Covid-19 than it would have been previously, the train companies are more likely to adversely impact them by leaving them high and dry. People wanting to maintain social distancing of their own volition being forced to buy new tickets is one possible example of that sort of rough treatment.

Of course lots of train enthusiasts and staff will complain that it's unfair that train companies have a reputation for being a bit untrustworthy when it comes to 'doing the right thing', and point out myriad examples of where there was in fact basically adequate customer service. But they, of course, aren't the real market.

To put it another way, most people will take what they're told on social media or by staff at face value without further testing that. You do in almost all consumer transactions apart from the railway.

I wouldn't deny in the slightest that people who have had a bad experience on the railway are exceptionally unlikely to have had it suitably rectified and apologised for. That doesn't necessarily mean that the majority of people are put off, and that the precipitous drop in passenger numbers is largely due to, such factors.

Either way we are on the same page about this. The industry simply doesn't give a toss about guaranteeing those measures that make the frightened general public feel safe, such as social distancing. In those instances where they've taken measures to try and guarantee it, these have been roundly impractical (e.g. XC's "compulsory reservations" and TfW's Barry Island fiasco) and have had predictable consequences.

This is no different to the way that the industry doesn't give a toss about loads of other things that are important to providing a good experience from start to finish. As long as the railway is indemnified by the taxpayer it will continue to be so forevermore. After all who's going to lose their job for providing bad customer service or coming up with ludicrous social distancing measures? For all their flaws in refusing refunds, you don't see airlines telling passengers to get lost.

 

[Mathieu]

Now they are claiming it was added in error and was never their policy...

https://twitter.com/scotrail/status/1289183196328779778?s=21

It's not, Mathiéu. This was added in error - it was never our policy. ^Angus

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

Now they are claiming it was added in error and was never their policy...

https://twitter.com/scotrail/status/1289183196328779778?s=21

The pathetic excuses continue rolling into the station (unlike the trains). I don't know why you're bothering engaging with them when they clearly haven't got a clue what they're on about.

I don't know what planet they're living on where it makes sense for them to suggest that someone spent time to update the website to draft and include such a statement, and yet it was "an error".

Even if we accepted that lie, it's a statement made on behalf of the trader, and so section 50 is engaged. It's not your responsibility to determine what is and isn't an error. The only kind of errors that you can't rely on are those which are obviously a mistake - say a TV being priced at 1p. There is no way anyone could credibly claim that this is such a mistake.

 

[Mathieu]

The pathetic excuses continue rolling into the station (unlike the trains). I don't know why you're bothering engaging with them when they clearly haven't got a clue what they're on about.

I don't know what planet they're living on where it makes sense for them to suggest that someone spent time to update the website to draft and include such a statement, and yet it was "an error".

Even if we accepted that lie, it's a statement made on behalf of the trader, and so section 50 is engaged. It's not your responsibility to determine what is and isn't an error. The only kind of errors that you can't rely on are those which are obviously a mistake - say a TV being priced at 1p. There is no way anyone could credibly claim that this is such a mistake.

Also claiming that Section 50 won’t apply, they’re really digging them self into a bad PR hole

https://twitter.com/scotrail/status/1289198521157947392?s=21

No, as we've made you aware before travelling that this was an error and you have time to check your services before travelling with to make the decision whether to get the last service or make alternative plans. ^MF

 

[Trackman]

Now they are claiming it was added in error and was never their policy...

https://twitter.com/scotrail/status/1289183196328779778?s=21

I really don't understand the error bit.
Did someone make it up and risk their job?

 

[Mathieu]

I really don't understand the error bit.
Did someone make it up and risk their job?

Seems like all a big cover up just to get out of paying for a hypothetical taxi for a paying customer

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

Also claiming that Section 50 won’t apply, they’re really digging them self into a bad PR hole

https://twitter.com/scotrail/status/1289198521157947392?s=21

Hardly a big PR hole I'm afraid to say - not many people are going to decide whether or not to take ScotRail services based on the conversation you're having.

It's not clear whether you indicated that section 50 of the Consumer Rights Act is what you were referring to, so perhaps they didn't catch your gist.

Either either way I strongly doubt their answer is about to change, no matter what you say. They will insist until they're blue in the face that they can unilaterally vary the terms of a contract, let alone without formally notifying you.

I really wouldn't waste any more of your life trying to engage with them.

 

[py_megapixel]

I really don't understand the error bit.
Did someone make it up and risk their job?

I agree that this is a total nonsense. They might as well just say that any good customer service is entirely incidental and I side effect...

 

[HamworthyGoods]

Seems like all a big cover up just to get out of paying for a hypothetical taxi for a paying customer

How would you social distance in a taxi? Most of them aren’t that big so getting one for you wouldn’t help

 

[py_megapixel]

How would you social distance in a taxi? Most of them aren’t that big so getting one for you wouldn’t help

Screens between the driver and the passenger, with the passenger not allowed to sit in the front.

 

[SteveM70]

Tag @AlexHynes on your twitter conversation. He’s very active on social media and when he was at Northern he seemed a rare voice of reason amongst their senior team

 

[Mathieu]

Tag @AlexHynes on your twitter conversation. He’s very active on social media and when he was at Northern he seemed a rare voice of reason amongst their senior team

He follows me so I’ll DM him the thread

 

[Fokx]

Section 50 would apply here as it was introduced to railway companies a few years ago. However the loophole is that the journey must be deemed ‘essential’ as the company state that the provision was for ‘essential journeys only’. (What this actually entails who knows?)

As this is merely a hypothetical situation and something that hasn’t applied to you or anyone personally that is known of, it’s not worth pursuing any further as it won’t apply to future transactions now that it’s been removed and not publicly visible but may apply to previous bookings.

The message was likely posted in error in the sense that it applied to stricter lockdown rules when the railway was running essential travel only (hence the application to essential journeys), and the error was in fact not removing following travel easements.

 

[HSP 2]

As your address is Oban are your talking about the last train from say EDB to connect with your last train to Oban?
The last train from EDB 17:30 arrive GLQ 18:14 to connect with the last train to Oban at 18:23 arrive Oban 21:24.
If that's what your thinking of I think that you will find that you may end up getting a taxi from EDB to somewhere like Dumbarton. To catch your last train from GLQ.

I could be very wrong of course.

 

[Wolfie]

Both of these are down to the passenger so the TOC isn't liable. Unless you are prevented boarding by staff.

Re the last case the politicians and media will have an absolute field day with any TOC stupid enough to say that you have to ignore social distancing....

 

[Wolfie]

The pathetic excuses continue rolling into the station (unlike the trains). I don't know why you're bothering engaging with them when they clearly haven't got a clue what they're on about.

I don't know what planet they're living on where it makes sense for them to suggest that someone spent time to update the website to draft and include such a statement, and yet it was "an error".

Even if we accepted that lie, it's a statement made on behalf of the trader, and so section 50 is engaged. It's not your responsibility to determine what is and isn't an error. The only kind of errors that you can't rely on are those which are obviously a mistake - say a TV being priced at 1p. There is no way anyone could credibly claim that this is such a mistake.

Spot on. They are in a hole, they know it and are spouting BS... Time for engagement with an MSP (or if you live outside Scotland your MP) methinks....

 

[Wolfie]

Also claiming that Section 50 won’t apply, they’re really digging them self into a bad PR hole

https://twitter.com/scotrail/status/1289198521157947392?s=21

Such ignorance of consumer law really should cost those dumb muppets dearly.

 

[Wolfie]

Hardly a big PR hole I'm afraid to say - not many people are going to decide whether or not to take ScotRail services based on the conversation you're having.

It's not clear whether you indicated that section 50 of the Consumer Rights Act is what you were referring to, so perhaps they didn't catch your gist.

Either either way I strongly doubt their answer is about to change, no matter what you say. They will insist until they're blue in the face that they can unilaterally vary the terms of a contract, let alone without formally notifying you.

I really wouldn't waste any more of your life trying to engage with them.

Correct. Time to go to the media, the politicians and if necessary the Courts.

 

[Mathieu]

As your address is Oban are your talking about the last train from say EDB to connect with your last train to Oban?
The last train from EDB 17:30 arrive GLQ 18:14 to connect with the last train to Oban at 18:23 arrive Oban 21:24.
If that's what your thinking of I think that you will find that you may end up getting a taxi from EDB to somewhere like Dumbarton. To catch your last train from GLQ.

I could be very wrong of course.

Oban to Milngavie, this was during the shortened timetable so the last train I could get was the 12:11, if I got the next train at 18:11 I would miss the last train from Dalmuir to Westerton (and Westerton to Milngavie)

Edit: The 12:11 was also packed with mostly tourists and some locals. Staff not enforcing social distancing and letting the train have more people than it should. Here's my comment on a similar service I was on with ScotRail's rather poor response added too regarding lack of social distancing and lack of shoes for some passengers... https://twitter.com/MathieuDocherty/status/1287723746392973313

 

[HamworthyGoods]

Oban to Milngavie, this was during the shortened timetable so the last train I could get was the 12:11, if I got the next train at 18:11 I would miss the last train from Dalmuir to Westerton (and Westerton to Milngavie)

Edit: The 12:11 was also packed with mostly tourists and some locals. Staff not enforcing social distancing and letting the train have more people than it should. Here's my comment on a similar service I was on with ScotRail's rather poor response added too regarding lack of social distancing and lack of shoes for some passengers... https://twitter.com/MathieuDocherty/status/1287723746392973313

Scotrail isn’t responsible for the enforcement of Social Distancing or Mask wearing it’s the British Transport Police so why aren’t your tweets directed at the Police who can legally enforce this?

The railways also don’t guarantee social distancing as trains are turn up and go so don’t become ‘full’ no different to the London Underground etc

 

[Hadders]

Scotrail isn’t responsible for the enforcement of Social Distancing or Mask wearing it’s the British Transport Police so why aren’t your tweets directed at the Police who can legally enforce this?

The railways also don’t guarantee social distancing as trains are turn up and go so don’t become ‘full’ no different to the London Underground etc

At times it is not possible to social distance when travelling on public transport. Face coverings provide mitigation where social distancing is not possible.

 

[Haywain]

Oban to Milngavie, this was during the shortened timetable so the last train I could get was the 12:11, if I got the next train at 18:11 I would miss the last train from Dalmuir to Westerton (and Westerton to Milngavie)

Edit: The 12:11 was also packed with mostly tourists and some locals. Staff not enforcing social distancing and letting the train have more people than it should. Here's my comment on a similar service I was on with ScotRail's rather poor response added too regarding lack of social distancing and lack of shoes for some passengers... https://twitter.com/MathieuDocherty/status/1287723746392973313

What is your problem with people not wearing shoes?

 

[Darandio]

What is your problem with people not wearing shoes?

It would depend if they had socks on for me. Even that is bad enough when they decide to put them up on the seat opposite but bare feet on a train? No thanks.