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Missing the Caledonian Sleeper - Euston Overnight Facilities Query

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Clansman

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I'm undertaking a last minute trip tomorrow which involves me taking the last train from Crewe to Euston (20:47) tomorrow night (Sunday 9th July). As the Highland sleeper is booked, I'm going to be taking the Lowland up instead. Just a quick query here, what happens in the event of a delay forcing me to miss the sleeper? It's just got me thinking that even if the 1 hour buffer I have in Euston is not enough for me to make the sleeper, if my train is cancelled or severely delayed would Virgin or Caledonian Sleeper have to give me a refund and book me into a hotel for the night? What are the procedures for such an event? Should this happen and I have no other alternative, are any waiting rooms at Euston kept open during the night for such cases?
Any help appreciated :)

Note: The reason for doing the Sleeper is to maximise my time at Crewe.
 
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najaB

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Just a quick query here, what happens in the event of a delay forcing me to miss the sleeper?
If you have a through ticket, or a combination of tickets for a through journey, and the delay occurs while travelling by rail then yes, they have an obligation to either provide you onwards travel or overnight accommodation.
 

Flying Snail

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If you have a through ticket, or a combination of tickets for a through journey, and the delay occurs while travelling by rail then yes, they have an obligation to either provide you onwards travel or overnight accommodation.

I imagine it would be difficult to get anyone to agree to pay for a hotel room based on a Crewe-Glasgow/Edinburgh via London journey.

I'm undertaking a last minute trip tomorrow which involves me taking the last train from Crewe to Euston (20:47) tomorrow night (Sunday 9th July). As the Highland sleeper is booked, I'm going to be taking the Lowland up instead. Just a quick query here, what happens in the event of a delay forcing me to miss the sleeper? It's just got me thinking that even if the 1 hour buffer I have in Euston is not enough for me to make the sleeper, if my train is cancelled or severely delayed would Virgin or Caledonian Sleeper have to give me a refund and book me into a hotel for the night? What are the procedures for such an event? Should this happen and I have no other alternative, are any waiting rooms at Euston kept open during the night for such cases?
Any help appreciated :)

A couple of points;

You don't have an hour at Euston, 20.47 from Crewe arr Eus at 22.53, CS dep 23.28.

Your service from Crewe isn't the last one, there is also a 21.24.
Both the 20.47 and 21.24 call at Watford Jct where the sleeper picks up, if your southbound journey is delayed you can transfer there instead.

Maybe if you are worried about the connection you should aim for an earlier southbound or at the very least keep an eye on the live running of southbound WCML services.
 

Clansman

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If you have a through ticket, or a combination of tickets for a through journey, and the delay occurs while travelling by rail then yes, they have an obligation to either provide you onwards travel or overnight accommodation.

Cheers for the info. My friend who is travelling with me has got a BR Piv Pass, does this apply to him as well?

You don't have an hour at Euston, 20.47 from Crewe arr Eus at 22.53, CS dep 23.28.

Your service from Crewe isn't the last one, there is also a 21.24.
Both the 20.47 and 21.24 call at Watford Jct where the sleeper picks up, if your southbound journey is delayed you can transfer there instead.

Maybe if you are worried about the connection you should aim for an earlier southbound or at the very least keep an eye on the live running of southbound WCML services.[/QUOTE]

Cheers for the correction,
I'll definitely be glued to RTT tomorrow night. Tight margins can cause havoc so hopefully it'll go as planned. Good idea about Watford Junction :)
 
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najaB

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I imagine it would be difficult to get anyone to agree to pay for a hotel room based on a Crewe-Glasgow/Edinburgh via London journey.
I agree it's an odd route, but it is a journey by train so they can't leave the OP stranded.
 

gray1404

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And if they were to leave you stranded and you ended up having to pay for your own hotel, I would expect any decent TOC to refund the money back to you.

Its a pitty the OP couldn't simply board the Highland sleeper at Crewe though.
 

Clansman

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And if they were to leave you stranded and you ended up having to pay for your own hotel, I would expect any decent TOC to refund the money back to you.

Its a pitty the OP couldn't simply board the Highland sleeper at Crewe though.

Well if I would get a refund that way I would pay for a hotel definitely. It was all last minute - The Highland Sleeper on all portions was sold out by Thursday, leaving me with this option instead.
 
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Peter Mugridge

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Both the 20.47 and 21.24 call at Watford Jct where the sleeper picks up, if your southbound journey is delayed you can transfer there instead.

If you're going to try that, it might be a good idea to let the Sleeper people know while en route in case they mark you as a no-show at Euston and release the berth...
 

Clansman

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If you're going to try that, it might be a good idea to let the Sleeper people know while en route in case they mark you as a no-show at Euston and release the berth...

I'm currently emailing them and they've enquired about the route so it's a case of wait and see what they come back with.
 

AlterEgo

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I agree it's an odd route, but it is a journey by train so they can't leave the OP stranded.

I think it's tenuous that this is a single journey. From the OP's perspective it certainly is. But it raises questions.

Would a 14 Day ALR be a single journey?
 

Tim R-T-C

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Would a 14 Day ALR be a single journey?

If you have a legitimate itinerary (ie. no connections of less than permitted length) and especially if you have booked reservations, then yes I believe it is.

Surely it doesn't matter if your route is odd provided you have valid tickets and allow reasonable time.
 

AlterEgo

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If you have a legitimate itinerary (ie. no connections of less than permitted length) and especially if you have booked reservations, then yes I believe it is.

Surely it doesn't matter if your route is odd provided you have valid tickets and allow reasonable time.

How would you define "legitimate itinerary"? One that can be provided by a journey planner, or printed from an Avantix, or just any combination of 100 or so rail sectors which all obey the minimum connection times (albeit some of them are overnight BoJs, obviously)?
 

najaB

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Let's say that I want to get a late train to London, meet a friend to give them something and then get another train home. Surely you aren't suggesting that the railway can abandon me in London if the first train runs late causing me to miss the second?

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk
 

AlterEgo

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Let's say that I want to get a late train to London, meet a friend to give them something and then get another train home. Surely you aren't suggesting that the railway can abandon me in London if the first train runs late causing me to miss the second?

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk

I'm simply exploring where people would draw the line at what a "valid journey" is.

In the example you gave, and in the OP's example, if I were station staff I would authorise a hotel or transport. But then as we've seen, it's not black and white.
 

Tim R-T-C

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How would you define "legitimate itinerary"? One that can be provided by a journey planner, or printed from an Avantix, or just any combination of 100 or so rail sectors which all obey the minimum connection times (albeit some of them are overnight BoJs, obviously)?

Well particularly if you have valid tickets for both sections, why shouldn't any routing be accepted, it is not the station staff's business as to why you are doing a particular journey.

ALR is slightly different, but I doubt there is a major issue with people using ALRs to hunt out delayed trains and using them to claim free accommodation in London.
 

Trog

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I would say that any journey however strange they are willing to take your money for is a valid one.
 

najaB

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I'm simply exploring where people would draw the line at what a "valid journey" is.
Okay, I appreciate that and wasn't having a go at you. But I think it's safe to say that if a delay to one train causes you to miss another, provided you left enough time between them, the railway has an obligation to not leave you stranded.

Regardless of the combination of trains.



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Flying Snail

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I would say that any journey however strange they are willing to take your money for is a valid one.

You cannot buy a ticket to cover the OP's journey, ALR/Britrail excepted.

Should any combination of tickets that meet minimum connections rules be accepted for provision of compensation and additional provisions such as overnight accommodation?

As OP's train is currently on time it is unlikely he will be able to test the scenario, has anyone any examples of TOCs providing hotel rooms for missed connections.

Personally I have had a few lengthy taxi rides over the years, Manchester to Holyhead being the longest, never been in the situation of a late train requiring an overnight stay though.

Closest I have come was a terminated train leaving me too late for a flight home from Manchester, ended up on the overnight ferry to Dublin with me due to work a full shift that morning.
 

Clansman

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Train on time so far, only an hour and a bit to go. Looks like it's going to be fine, although I don't want to jinx it ;)
 

Tim R-T-C

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You cannot buy a ticket to cover the OP's journey, ALR/Britrail excepted.

Single Crewe to Euston, Single Euston to Edinburgh?

Not a single ticket, but it has been established many times that a single through ticket is not necessary for a journey to be treated as a single journey in regards delay compensation and moving onto later trains in case of a delay.

Subject to the proviso that a delay was not known after the ticket was purchased and the connection times are valid.
 
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Crossover

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How would you define "legitimate itinerary"? One that can be provided by a journey planner, or printed from an Avantix, or just any combination of 100 or so rail sectors which all obey the minimum connection times (albeit some of them are overnight BoJs, obviously)?

Any combination of however many sectors, surely. As long as minimum connection times are obeyed, there shouldn't be an issue (as odd as it may appear routing wise)
 

AlterEgo

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Any combination of however many sectors, surely. As long as minimum connection times are obeyed, there shouldn't be an issue (as odd as it may appear routing wise)

So, an annual season ticket between Woking and London is just the one journey then. Because on each rail sector I'm leaving 9 hours gap in the day and 15 at night... :D
 

Tim R-T-C

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So, an annual season ticket between Woking and London is just the one journey then. Because on each rail sector I'm leaving 9 hours gap in the day and 15 at night... :D

You could use it for multiple trips on a single day, in which case if you missed your return connection due to a delay, you should be covered.
 

AlterEgo

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Someone asked whether a Priv would get compensation - no. In fact, it specifically doesn't entitle you to a lot of things, unless it's a Gold Pass (or modern equivalent).

Boy I miss my Priv., but I'm enjoying not being taxed on it!

Priv tickets qualify for Delay Repay and ticket holders receive all entitlements to the usual care under the NRCoC - where did you hear otherwise?
 

Joseph_Locke

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Priv tickets qualify for Delay Repay and ticket holders receive all entitlements to the usual care under the NRCoC - where did you hear otherwise?

BR conditions of employment, circa 1993, which was the lest set that applied to me. A filled in box was a filled in box, journey or no journey. And we were required to stand if paying passengers didn't have a seat.
 
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