Misused Freedom pass in Tube， recieved a letter from TFL

[Cricketboy]

A friend got caught when she used my parent’s freedom pass to touch out the tube station barrier last Tuesday, and received a letter from TFL on Thursday.

On the day got caught the plain staff took her bank card and called someone to confirm the information, luckily she gave the real name and address, but so curious about who did the staff called , and how can they confirm the detail with a bank card, do they have the right to access the personal bank detail?

Actually she is not that kind of bad character person, very humble and kind, she is terrified, so am I. I have some questions about this, Hope some one can help me.

1. I didn’t receive any phone call or email or letter from TFL yet, will TFL contact me or prosecute me ?as the freedom card is my parent’s ，My parent applied it with my email address, but she has already left UK.

2. In the letter they spell my friend’s first name wrongly, Does this mean they can’t prosecute her without correct name? If they could still prosecute my friend , should my friend correct it in the response or still use the one TFL used? And my friend give a lunar calendar date of birth when the stuff asked but it is different from the one on the her ID, should she correct it in the response or use the same one she gave to the staff.and curious about why they want Date of birth?

3. Should she ask for help from a solicitor in this stage about how to reply to TFL, does it work?she would like to pay the fine, but doesn’t want to have a criminal record.

Thank you for any help from you guys.

 

[Wethebest838]

I have no idea who he called. Didn’t know that was a thing. They cannot obtain that information from the bank straight away, maybe ever. I’m sure that would be breaking GDPR if they did that? I don’t get that part as addresses aren’t on bank cards and like I said, I’m sure that is a GDPR violation. Can only think they contacted HQ and requested it from previous use? I really don’t know. Someone else may be able to help with that.

I’m confused, is it your friend who has left the country or your parent? If it’s your friend then to be fair, unless she planned to live here then I wouldn’t care in my opinion. But that’s just me.

The person caught will be the main suspect here however they will/may ask how she got it which can unravel more trouble. It is best to be as honest as possible, you or your friend don’t wanna dig yourself an even bigger hole.

 

[skyhigh]

2. In the letter they spell my friend’s first name wrongly, Does this mean they can’t prosecute her without correct name?

It doesn't matter, they clearly know it refers to them. They can correct it or ignore it, it won't stop them from prosecuting.

but so curious about who did the staff called , and how can they confirm the detail with a bank card, do they have the right to access the personal bank detail?

They wouldn't have phoned the bank or accessed any personal bank details. They will have phoned their office who will have been able to verify the details given were correct based on public electoral records, credit reference agencies etc.

 

[Dai Corner]

The Freedom Pass ceased to be valid when the holder left the UK. How long has your friend been using it?

 

[AlterEgo]

On the day got caught the plain staff took her bank card and called someone to confirm the information, luckily she gave the real name and address, but so curious about who did the staff called , and how can they confirm the detail with a bank card, do they have the right to access the personal bank detail?

No, they will be calling through to see if someone with that name is known to the system for any outstanding or previous incidents.

1. I didn’t receive any phone call or email or letter from TFL yet, will TFL contact me or prosecute me ?

They will be in contact, likely with a letter to ask for your version of the events. You should be truthful in your response to that.

as the freedom card is my parent’s ，My parent applied it with my email address, but she has already left UK.

How long has the fare dodging been going on? They'll find out if it's more than one occasion.

2. In the letter they spell my friend’s first name wrongly, Does this mean they can’t prosecute her without correct name?

No, they can still prosecute you with a misspelled name.

If they could still prosecute my friend , should my friend correct it in the response or still use the one TFL used?

The name should be corrected.

And my friend give a lunar calendar date of birth when the stuff asked but it is different from the one on the her ID, should she correct it in the response

Correct it. We don't use the lunar calendar in the UK.

3. Should she ask for help from a solicitor in this stage about how to reply to TFL, does it work?

We've seen mixed reports of whether that brings results, but many other factors will decide whether a prosecution is brought.

 

[Class800]

Why should the incorrect name not invalidate the case?

 

[skyhigh]

They will be in contact, likely with a letter to ask for your version of the events. You should be truthful in your response to that.

Given the mix of 'I' and 'my friend' I'm struggling to work out if 'my friend' is a euphemism or the bit you quoted means that the OP lent the pass out

Why should the incorrect name not invalidate the case?

Because it's not an incorrect name. It's a minor spelling error. The letter arrived at the correct address and was opened by the person it was intended for because they clearly knew it was for them.

 

[30907]

A friend got caught when she used my parent’s freedom pass to touch out the tube station barrier last Tuesday, and received a letter from TFL on Thursday.

1. I didn’t receive any phone call or email or letter from TFL yet, will TFL contact me or prosecute me ?as the freedom card is my parent’s ，My parent applied it with my email address, but she has already left UK.

It is theoretically possible that TfL could involve you (did you give here the card? Don't answer!), but I cannot recall a case on this forum.

2. And my friend give a lunar calendar date of birth when the stuff asked but it is different from the one on the her ID, should she correct it in the response or use the same one she gave to the staff.and curious about why they want Date of birth?

It helps identify her from others with similar details (which is why medical services ask) but also whether she is an adult legally.
It might be worth explaining the discrepancy.

3. Should she ask for help from a solicitor in this stage about how to reply to TFL, does it work?she would like to pay the fine, but doesn’t want to have a criminal record.

At this stage I would say no.

Based on reports here, and assuming this is the first time she has been caught, TfL will most likely prosecute under their Byelaws for not having a valid ticket. This a "non-recordable" conviction which is "spent" after a year and is not generally regarded as a serious offence by employers etc, though it will show up on an Enhanced DBS.

A quick search of this sub-forum will find posts by Hadders which offer excellent advice on replying. Post #8 here is very recent though refers to a National Rail company who tend to be more ready to settle out of court.

https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...with-a-badly-edited-time.232664/#post-5691814

 

[AlterEgo]

Given the mix of 'I' and 'my friend' I'm struggling to work out if 'my friend' is a euphemism or the bit you quoted means that the OP lent the pass out

Yeah I'm not sure either.

 

[Cricketboy]

I’m confused, is it your friend who has left the country or your parent?

it‘s my parent is no longer in UK, who is the real holder of the freedom pass card.
my friend is still in UK.

 

[AlterEgo]

it‘s my parent is no longer in UK, who is the real holder of the freedom pass card.
my friend is still in UK.

And how long has the fare evasion been going on for? If it is a long time, and you helped them obtain the pass, you may face consequences too.

 

[Cricketboy]

I have no idea who he called. Didn’t know that was a thing. They cannot obtain that information from the bank straight away, maybe ever. I’m sure that would be breaking GDPR if they did that? I don’t get that part as addresses aren’t on bank cards and like I said, I’m sure that is a GDPR violation. Can only think they contacted HQ and requested it from previous use? I really don’t know. Someone else may be able to help with that.

She heard someone spelt her name from the other end of the phone call， I am so curious about this.

And how long has the fare evasion been going on for? If it is a long time, and you helped them obtain the pass, you may face consequences too.

That is my main Concern.
I don’t know whether TFl will contact me or fine me or prosecute me for giving the pass to others if my friend nevermentioned me to the staff?

 

[AlterEgo]

She heard someone spelt her name from the other end of the phone call， I am so curious about this.

They can't obtain her details from the bank.

I don’t know whether TFl will contact me or fine me or prosecute me for giving the pass to others if my friend nevermentioned me to the staff?

my friend borrowed my parents for her parent to use, as my parent has left UK, I gave it to her. Because her parent is over 65 too, I thought it is OK.

No, that is not OK. Freedom Passes have someone's name and picture on, so nobody is going to accept that you thought it was OK for someone else to use it.

It sounds like you have a little fare evasion ring going on and you had better hope TfL don't dig too deeply.

No, I didn’t know she used by herself, I don’t do fare evasion at all, my company pay for my annual travel card, I have no reason to do fare evasion. It’s because she didn’t bother to apply for her parent in the beginning, but her parent is eligible to get their own too.actually her company do the reimbursement for the transport fee，I don’t know why did she do that, she said she just touch whatever she grabbed from her bag

How do you think it will look to someone investigating?

Your priority is to firstly, be truthful if questions come your way, but also to minimise the chance you are caught. I do not advise you contact TfL yourself.

As you have effectively given away the pass (it wasn't yours and could never be yours to use) and given it to someone else not entitled to use it, TfL may find that you are guilty of an offence, too. The big problem here is that you are party to the offences by handing away a pass which wasn't yours to someone you didn't have any cause to believe would be allowed to use it.

Your friend should seek advice independently of you, since your situation is dependent on how honest your friend is with TfL, and you are an interested party.

 

[Cricketboy]

Yeah I'm not sure either.

They can't obtain her details from the bank.

No, that is not OK. Freedom Passes have someone's name and picture on, so nobody is going to accept that you thought it was OK for someone else to use it.

It sounds like you have a little fare evasion ring going on and you had better hope TfL don't dig too deeply.

No, I didn’t know she used by herself, I don’t do fare evasion at all, my company pay for my annual travel card, I have no reason to do fare evasion. It’s because she didn’t bother to apply for her parent in the beginning, but her parent is eligible to get their own too.actually her company do the reimbursement for the transport fee，I don’t know why did she do that, she said she just touch whatever she grabbed from her bag

It is theoretically possible that TfL could involve you (did you give here the card? Don't answer!), but I cannot recall a case on this forum.

It helps identify her from others with similar details (which is why medical services ask) but also whether she is an adult legally.
It might be worth explaining the discrepancy.

At this stage I would say no.

Based on reports here, and assuming this is the first time she has been caught, TfL will most likely prosecute under their Byelaws for not having a valid ticket. This a "non-recordable" conviction which is "spent" after a year and is not generally regarded as a serious offence by employers etc, though it will show up on an Enhanced DBS.

A quick search of this sub-forum will find posts by Hadders which offer excellent advice on replying. Post #8 here is very recent though refers to a National Rail company who tend to be more ready to settle out of court.

https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...with-a-badly-edited-time.232664/#post-5691814

Thank you so much, I will have a look.

 

[Cricketboy]

They can't obtain her details from the bank.

No, that is not OK. Freedom Passes have someone's name and picture on, so nobody is going to accept that you thought it was OK for someone else to use it.

It sounds like you have a little fare evasion ring going on and you had better hope TfL don't dig too deeply.


How do you think it will look to someone investigating?

Your priority is to firstly, be truthful if questions come your way, but also to minimise the chance you are caught. I do not advise you contact TfL yourself.

As you have effectively given away the pass (it wasn't yours and could never be yours to use) and given it to someone else not entitled to use it, TfL may find that you are guilty of an offence, too. The big problem here is that you are party to the offences by handing away a pass which wasn't yours to someone you didn't have any cause to believe would be allowed to use it.

Your friend should seek advice independently of you, since your situation is dependent on how honest your friend is with TfL, and you are an interested party.

thank you for your advise， Now I know I shouldn’t do it, but could I just say I lost it to get rid of trouble? I am scared too, Will this increase my friend’s trouble?
May I ask How big could I get if I say I gave it to my friend?

 

[Class800]

Given the mix of 'I' and 'my friend' I'm struggling to work out if 'my friend' is a euphemism or the bit you quoted means that the OP lent the pass out


Because it's not an incorrect name. It's a minor spelling error. The letter arrived at the correct address and was opened by the person it was intended for because they clearly knew it was for them.

Another example of how the system is not fair - if a passenger made a minor spelling error and got a ticket to Sunbury not Sudbury or a similar pair, the passenger may get in trouble - yet these prosecutors can get away with 'minor' errors and still press the case.

 

[skyhigh]

It’s because she didn’t bother to apply for her parent in the beginning, but her parent is eligible to get their own too.

That's an awful excuse to use. Even if her parent was eligible for a freedom pass, it doesn't mean she could use it too!

Another example of how the system is not fair - if a passenger made a minor spelling error and got a ticket to Sunbury not Sudbury or a similar pair, the passenger may get in trouble - yet these prosecutors can get away with 'minor' errors and still press the case.

Oh come on, that is completely different.

 

[AlterEgo]

thank you for your advise， Now I know I shouldn’t do it, but could I just say I lost it to get rid of trouble?

No. That is a lie, and suggests that whoever found it after you "lost" committed an act of theft.

I am scared too, Will this increase my friend’s trouble?
May I ask How big could I get if I say I gave it to my friend?

I am not prepared to give further advice if there is a situation where you and your friend bargain on which lies you should tell.

Do not lie. You do not have to cooperate with the investigation if it comes to you, but you must not lie. This makes things worse.

 

[nanstallon]

Another example of how the system is not fair - if a passenger made a minor spelling error and got a ticket to Sunbury not Sudbury or a similar pair, the passenger may get in trouble - yet these prosecutors can get away with 'minor' errors and still press the case.

Yes, it is very one-sided.

 

[stuartl]

Could tfl get the date that the parent left the uk from the immigration people and then match that to the subsequent usage of the pass ? AFAIK that would be allowed under GDPR as it's for the purposes of a criminal investigation.

 

[Class800]

Yes, it is very one-sided.

Which a court should notice and ensure is handled equitably - but I would not trust them to do

 

[Deafdoggie]

Which a court should notice and ensure is handled equitably - but I would not trust them to do

I really don't think the court will care about a minor spelling error in a name. It most certainly won't stop the case. However, it's probably worth correcting, but certainly not worth worrying over

 

[Class800]

I really don't think the court will care about a minor spelling error in a name. It most certainly won't stop the case. However, it's probably worth correcting, but certainly not worth worrying over

Then they should not worry about any minor ticketing errors. It's crazy how biased the system is. But it's going OT.

 

[Haywain]

Then they should not worry about any minor ticketing errors. It's crazy how biased the system is. But it's going OT.

So the justice system should not bring the case because of a minor error in the spelling of a name? Would you feel the same for someone under investigation for a murder?

 

[Cowley]

Let’s perhaps leave the minor spelling error side of things where it is now. I think it’s causing an off topic chat that isn’t really helpful to the op.
Thanks everyone.

 

[Hadders]

It would be helpful if you could obtain a copy of the letter your friend has received and post it here, with personal details redacted. We will then be better placed to advise.

 

[Cricketboy]

It would be helpful if you could obtain a copy of the letter your friend has received and post it here, with personal details redacted. We will then be better placed to advise.

This is the letter my friend recieved，I think it is the same with others， nothing special.

No. That is a lie, and suggests that whoever found it after you "lost" committed an act of theft.

I am not prepared to give further advice if there is a situation where you and your friend bargain on which lies you should tell.

Do not lie. You do not have to cooperate with the investigation if it comes to you, but you must not lie. This makes things worse.

Thank you for your advice, because another friend suggested me to say I lost, So I come here to ask for advice, I will be honest, but what do you mean by I do not have to cooperate? If they comes, how can I not cooperate meanwhile be honest

 

[Hadders]

This is the letter my friend recieved，I think it is the same with others， nothing special.


Thank you for your advice, because another friend suggested me to say I lost, So I come here to ask for advice, I will be honest, but what do you mean by I do not have to cooperate? If they comes, how can I not cooperate meanwhile be honest

We really need to see the other side of the letter as we need to see exactly what questions they are asking you.

 

[Master29]

I am not prepared to give further advice if there is a situation where you and your friend bargain on which lies you should tell.

Do not lie. You do not have to cooperate with the investigation if it comes to you, but you must not lie. This makes things worse

Added to that the fact TOC's do look at this forum and the OP has clearly incriminated themselves and their friend on several occasions. Your last sentence is sound advice the OP would do well to take onboard.

 

[Haywain]

Added to that the fact TOC's do look at this forum and the OP has clearly incriminated themselves and their friend on several occasions.

People like to suggest that this happens, but I don't believe there is anything to back up that assertion in respect of cases on this part of the forum.