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Misused Freedom pass in Tube, recieved a letter from TFL

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BJames

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People like to suggest that this happens, but I don't believe there is anything to back up that assertion in respect of cases on this part of the forum.
Probably not as much as people suggest, but there is this from the other day (post #4), showing that it does happen:
 
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30907

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Probably not as much as people suggest, but there is this from the other day (post #4), showing that it does happen:
Strictly, it only shows that someone in SWR has read it, not necessarily a member of the RP team who could link it to a case.
 

Haywain

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Strictly, it only shows that someone in SWR has read it, not necessarily a member of the RP team who could link it to a case.
That is, in fact, far more likely to be the case. If it was someone in the RP team you would hardly expect them to post it somewhere that would be visible to anyone employed by SWR.
 

Cricketboy

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Added to that the fact TOC's do look at this forum and the OP has clearly incriminated themselves and their friend on several occasions. Your last sentence is sound advice the OP would do well to take onboard.
May I ask what‘’s the meaning of TOC and OP please?

and by the way, I would like to be honest ,but how can I do not to cooperate if they comes to me ?
 

stuartl

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TOC is Train Operating Company, i.e. the company whose train you travelled on.
OP is Original Poster, i.e yourself
 

Wolfie

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People like to suggest that this happens, but I don't believe there is anything to back up that assertion in respect of cases on this part of the forum.
There was a recent case where a post on here apparently subsequently appeared verbatim on a SWR internal network.

edited to add: l really must learn to read to the end of the thread before posting....
 

Haywain

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Thank you,so you mean the train company will prosecute me according to the context I post here?
Some people are suggesting that this could happen, but there is no real evidence to support that view. Most people who post here have done enough to get prosecuted without anyone at the train operator having to read their posts on here.
 

Cricketboy

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Some people are suggesting that this could happen, but there is no real evidence to support that view. Most people who post here have done enough to get prosecuted without anyone at the train operator having to read their posts on here.
But what if some people just made it up to post here?
 

AlterEgo

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May I ask what‘’s the meaning of TOC and OP please?

and by the way, I would like to be honest ,but how can I do not to cooperate if they comes to me ?
There is a difference between non-cooperation and dishonesty. The latter involves actually telling lies. The former involves, well, not cooperating. You have a legal right not to cooperate in their investigation if they try to ask you questions or send you a letter. Sometimes, using this right is more harmful than it is useful, so think carefully and obtain legal advice if you believe not cooperating is in your interests. As it stands, the company doesn’t appear to have yet twigged you are at the centre of this fare evasion case by your actions in stealing the pass and passing it on to be misused by someone else. Keep your head down.
 

Cricketboy

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There is a difference between non-cooperation and dishonesty. The latter involves actually telling lies. The former involves, well, not cooperating. You have a legal right not to cooperate in their investigation if they try to ask you questions or send you a letter. Sometimes, using this right is more harmful than it is useful, so think carefully and obtain legal advice if you believe not cooperating is in your interests. As it stands, the company doesn’t appear to have yet twigged you are at the centre of this fare evasion case by your actions in stealing the pass and passing it on to be misused by someone else. Keep your head down.
Thank yoy for your explanation and advice. Only one little thing:I didn‘t steal the pass

We really need to see the other side of the letter as we need to see exactly what questions they are asking you.
name, address, date of birth, and email adress, phone number,as well
 

Cricketboy

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所以是给你的?你是在得到主人同意的情况下把它送人的?
the holder just left it to me.

Does anybody think my friend should provide in the reply with her anual travel card before pandemic and her oyster card or credit card she always uses after pandemic, wh or stick to the principle of "do not provide more info except what they have know" , will that increase the chance of settle out of court, or reduce the punishment?
 
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Hadders

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You might want to include the following in your reply to the ketter:

- That you are sorry for what has happened
- What you have learned from the incident
- That you are keen to settle the matter without the need for court action
- Offer to pay the outstanding fare and the train company's administrative costs in dealing with the matter

Make sure your reply is short and concise, don't give a sob story. Feel free to post your draft letter here and forum members will be happy to proof read it.
 

Cricketboy

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You might want to include the following in your reply to the ketter:

- That you are sorry for what has happened
- What you have learned from the incident
- That you are keen to settle the matter without the need for court action
- Offer to pay the outstanding fare and the train company's administrative costs in dealing with the matter

Make sure your reply is short and concise, don't give a sob story. Feel free to post your draft letter here and forum members will be happy to proof read it.
Thank you for your advice.

Does anybody know who successfully got OOC or something even better from TFL? when I check the cases on this forum, most haven't given the outcome.

And, Should my friend say something to explain the incident ? or just say sorry for the incident, accept committing an offence, not to mention the detail? even it is really an accident?

in the letter from TFL, there is one option as follows

3. if this is in relation to a ticket irregularity, then if you were unable to produce a pass because you did not have it with you or if your pass was withdrawn because you were unable to produce a valid photocard to accompany it, please enclose a photocopy of the pass/PHOTO CARD with your reply.



actually, I don't really understand what's the meaning of the third one.
 
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Fawkes Cat

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3. if this is in relation to a ticket irregularity, then if you were unable to produce a pass because you did not have it with you or if your pass was withdrawn because you were unable to produce a valid photocard to accompany it, please enclose a photocopy of the pass/PHOTO CARD with your reply.



actually, I don't really understand what's the meaning of the third one.
I don't think this applies to your case. That's about someone who left their photocard at home - which as I understand it isn't the position your friend is in. So don't worry about that one!
 

Hadders

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Does anybody know who successfully got OOC or something even better from TFL? when I check the cases on this forum, most haven't given the outcome.
Until very recently TfL did not entertain out of court settlements. I am aware of a couple of cases recently that have been settled out of court so it does seem that they have recently changed their approach.

You should prepare for the worst and hope for the best.
 

Cricketboy

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I don't think this applies to your case. That's about someone who left their photocard at home - which as I understand it isn't the position your friend is in. So don't worry about that one!
Thank you~

Until very recently TfL did not entertain out of court settlements. I am aware of a couple of cases recently that have been settled out of court so it does seem that they have recently changed their approach.

You should prepare for the worst and hope for the best.
Thank you, it is good news, but may I ask what would be the worst, please? would she or I will be put into jail, or be fired for the criminal record? or can't stay in Uk any longer?
 

Fawkes Cat

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Thank you, it is good news, but may I ask what would be the worst, please? would she or I will be put into jail, or be fired for the criminal record? or can't stay in Uk any longer?
In terms of punishment from the court, the worst would be a fine; byelaw offences (whether for TfL or the surface railway) only have that available as a punishment, and while in theory Regulation of the Railway Act offences can lead to prison, in practice they don't. It's just possible that you and your friend could be charged with theft and/or fraud, but that's pretty unlikely to happen and even so I would expect a fine as the punishment.

Impact on jobs? That depends on what you do for a living. There are some jobs in the City where you are dealing with other people's money so a very high standard of trustworthiness is needed. If you have one of those jobs, you will be in trouble. But for most jobs, if you are good at it and your employer wants to keep you, then there probably won't be a problem. But don't try to hide a conviction from your employer: that would prove that not only did you do a stupid thing a while back that got you a fine, but you were still trying to get away with not being honest. More likely than not, that would get you sacked.

Staying in the UK? We don't know and we can't say. There used to be so many people out there exploiting people new to the UK that the law now says that only proper immigration advisers can talk about this sort of thing. We're not proper immigration advisers so we can't help - sorry!
 

Cricketboy

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In terms of punishment from the court, the worst would be a fine; byelaw offences (whether for TfL or the surface railway) only have that available as a punishment, and while in theory Regulation of the Railway Act offences can lead to prison, in practice they don't. It's just possible that you and your friend could be charged with theft and/or fraud, but that's pretty unlikely to happen and even so I would expect a fine as the punishment.

Impact on jobs? That depends on what you do for a living. There are some jobs in the City where you are dealing with other people's money so a very high standard of trustworthiness is needed. If you have one of those jobs, you will be in trouble. But for most jobs, if you are good at it and your employer wants to keep you, then there probably won't be a problem. But don't try to hide a conviction from your employer: that would prove that not only did you do a stupid thing a while back that got you a fine, but you were still trying to get away with not being honest. More likely than not, that would get you sacked.

Staying in the UK? We don't know and we can't say. There used to be so many people out there exploiting people new to the UK that the law now says that only proper immigration advisers can talk about this sort of thing. We're not proper immigration advisers so we can't help - sorry!
Thank you so much for your reply, May I ask Could my friend mention the conviction would make her lose her job If her job is dealing with money?
 

Fawkes Cat

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Thank you so much for your reply, May I ask Could my friend mention the conviction would make her lose her job If her job is dealing with money?
Your friend could mention it, but I am not sure that it would help. What TfL are interested in is being as certain as they can that your friend won’t try to fare-dodge again. The risk of her losing her job because of what she has already done isn’t really going to make much difference to her future behaviour.
 

30907

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Thank you so much for your reply, May I ask Could my friend mention the conviction would make her lose her job If her job is dealing with money?
She could, if that is her employer's policy, though I agree that it will not cut much ice.

I still think it is reasonably likely that TfL will prosecute under their Byelaws, as I suggested in post #8, and not for a more serious offence, and I would be surprised if that jeopardised her career.
 

Cricketboy

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Thank you guys so much.

Do you guys think whether she should attach some oyster top up receipts, annual ticket she used before, or bank cards usage for Transport? I know that also would give more information of travel pattern , so don’t know which is bigger? Advantage or disadvantage to give them?
 

Eyersey468

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I am unclear as to why the railway company would prosecute the OP unless the OP is saying they let their friend use their parents card or unless friend is a euphemism for the OP
 

Fawkes Cat

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I am unclear as to why the railway company would prosecute the OP unless the OP is saying they let their friend use their parents card or unless friend is a euphemism for the OP
I think that the OP is saying that they (the OP) obtained the card from their parent and passed it on to their friend, who used it.
 

Wolfie

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I think that the OP is saying that they (the OP) obtained the card from their parent and passed it on to their friend, who used it.
My take was subtly different: they (the OP) obtained the card from their parent and passed it on to their friend, supposedly for the friend's parent to use, but the friend used it themself.

Whichever version, it isn't a happy tale.
 
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